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*** She Hulk: Attorney At Law ***

58,163 Views | 656 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Ornithopter
TCTTS
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MBAR said:

TCTTS said:

You conveniently left out the word "tangible." Breaking the fourth wall isn't doing something tangible, within her own story. It's magic nothingness that didn't affect her in-universe story/arc in any real way.
I left it out because I feel it's irrelevant. The entire story has been with fourth wall breaks and the entire comic genre is magic nothingness. I disagree it didn't affect her story as it literally completely changes the ending of the first season.

I think its perfectly fair to say that you didn't care for it, but you can't say they didn't do anything and try to come up with a way to dismiss what they did because you don't care for it. The word tangible here is completely arbitrary. I say this before I even knew there is a comic backstory for THIS VERY THING which further erodes that line of criticism.


The fourth wall breaks happened basically once an episode, sometimes twice, for a few seconds each time. They hardly made up the "entire" story. There were multiple times where I forgot that was even a thing she did. So to then devote basically an entire episode to it felt, to me, incredibly off balance. I don't care if it's based in the comics or not. That doesn't make it any less jarring here, in a completely different medium.

Still, like I said, it's not completely about the fourth wall break for me either. It's about how, after the K.E.V.I.N. thing, everything is magically/suddenly solved simply because she asked for it. It was a lot of talking not showing. There was no re-do of the climax, no choice to make or obstacle to overcome in her "real world" life. I would have been *completely* fine with everything else in the episode had there been something more tangible, more character driven, in the real world, AFTER the K.E.V.I.N. thing. Instead, she just *wanted* something to happen, it happened, and that was that, which I found it incredibly unsatisfying.
The Porkchop Express
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There is no real world life for Jen Walters. She know she's a character in at TV show, she says it from the very first episode about "this being a lawyer show".


There was no need to re-do the climax because she made the changes with KEVIN - the discussion was the climax.

The whole show as a showcase in satire masking itself as a superhero series. I think watching it back I am going to see a lot of layers that I didn't see the first time because I was thinking it was going to be a corny as hell "cousin of the superhero gets powers" filler-fest. There was no need to act out her changes to the script, we already saw them through Kevin's screen.

Thought it was very smart and so counter-culture to what they've put out previously.
AliasMan02
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Like it or not, success or not, most of you are not giving this show near enough props for swinging big and doing something entirely different.

The MCU thread and online in general is LITTERED with complaints about the formulaic nature of Marvel stuff. Those making such complaints should at least applaud She-Hulk breaking that mold. Comes off as some sort of sour grapes when you complain about lack of originality, they do something original, and the only response is "no, not like THAT!"

Big swings are misses as often as hits. I thought this was funny but can see why it might have been too weird or random for some. It deserves props no matter where you sit, though.
TCTTS
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The Porkchop Express said:

There is no real world life for Jen Walters. She know she's a character in at TV show, she says it from the very first episode about "this being a lawyer show".


There was no need to re-do the climax because she made the changes with KEVIN - the discussion was the climax.

The whole show as a showcase in satire masking itself as a superhero series. I think watching it back I am going to see a lot of layers that I didn't see the first time because I was thinking it was going to be a corny as hell "cousin of the superhero gets powers" filler-fest. There was no need to act out her changes to the script, we already saw them through Kevin's screen.

Thought it was very smart and so counter-culture to what they've put out previously.


That's my problem with it right there. A discussion should never be a climax. That's completely antithetical to what a climax is. And I know the entire point was that she didn't want the big, ridiculous, smash-em-up ending. I totally get that. But I just needed *something* after the K.E.V.I.N. thing. Some kind of choice/decision/action - some little beat - where she does something that affects her arc and the plot *within* the four walls again.

Or, if not, they could have at least made it harder to finally break through to the Disney+ menu and get to K.E.V.I.N. Because as-is, again, all she had to do was *want* it and it happened. I'm sorry, but that's just not satisfying. There was nothing she had to give up or sacrifice or do to "achieve" the mother of all fourth wall breaks. It needed another aspect to it in that regard.
The Porkchop Express
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I'm not going to try to convince you that you're wrong because that's pointless, but can you at least accept that a satirical show doesn't need a traditional climax?
TCTTS
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I never said traditional. I just said it was missing one final piece, that's all.
Quad Dog
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Fair enough. It reminded me of Neo talking to the Architect. Where he got new information, but then still had to make a choice with that info, or have a consequence for gaining it. Something like that might have helped after KEVIN.

I think I was just so pleased to see something so different, creative, and fun be the resolution that I was happy either way.
TCTTS
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Yes, exactly. That's such a great comparison, re: Neo and the Architect.

And for the record, I loved the boldness/originality of the idea. And it was funny and self-deprecating to boot, in a way Marvel hasn't really been before.

My frustration comes from them being *this* close to nailing it. For me, it just needed that one little but crucial piece to make it truly work. Without it, though, it almost doesn't work at all.
redline248
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Quote:

But I just needed *something*
There's your problem...show isn't about what you need. Take your male patriarchy somewhere else

(if the winky isn't sufficient...I'm teasing you)
The Porkchop Express
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redline248 said:

Quote:

But I just needed *something*
There's your problem...show isn't about what you need. Take your male patriarchy somewhere else

(if the winky isn't sufficient...I'm teasing you)
Wish the show could have been 11-13% more woke as well.
Definitely Not A Cop
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Next seasons main villains will be tv review critics.
Quad Dog
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Definitely Not A Cop said:

Next seasons main villains will be tv review critics.

Arguably this seasons villains were influencers and online trolls.
jamesf
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The ending was weird, but I laughed a lot. I appreciate it being different than all the other Marvel stuff out there.
FL_Ag1998
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Like many have already said I really like the ending simply because of the originality of it. Did they knock the finale out of the park? No. But I would call it an inside the park home run simply because the actress is so damn charismatic. If she wasn't as good as she was then yeah, I think it might have failed.
KCup17
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Thought to myself a couple times that some writer on this show must have read through the TexAgs marvel thread
Mathguy64
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The show was true to itself to the end. It's been a fun show that digs at Marvel itself. The whole K.E.V.I.N bit was icing on the cake. Well done.
Quad Dog
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I wonder what the KEVIN pitch meeting was like to Kevin Feige.
redline248
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Quad Dog said:

I wonder what the KEVIN pitch meeting was like to Kevin Feige.
Making fun of me with an AI is tight!
Madmarttigan
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It may be fun for a tv show but I hope she-hulk has nothing to do with movies going forward. This phase has been all over the place as it is without a 4th wall gimmick.
bearamedic99
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If only the mid-credits scene could've been Jen and Matt cuddling in bed, her with bed hair and him wearing the mask.

Matt says, wait, was there a climax?

And Jen, oh yeah.

Maybe the camera pans out to show the bed is broken.


PS- Was all of Orphan Black worth watching? I stopped around season 3 due to life stuff and never finished the show.
Ghost of Bisbee
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Agreed. Loki was much a better swing for the fences too
The greatest prose to ever grace TexAgs:
https://texags.com/forums/5/topics/3216304/replies/59855160
Ornithopter
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I think the ending needed some level of sacrifice to have a better bow on it.

Like she rewinds the episode and stops Todd from getting the serum, but instead ends up where she can't go back to Jen. And Bruce doesn't show up. And maybe Abomination had no idea who was coming to the event and is woefully apologetic.

I still liked it, thought KEVIN was a clever thing, and look forward to Season 2.
TCTTS
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This.
Saxsoon
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Honestly for me this reminded me a lot of the Loki finale where point wasn't the fight but the discussion but that is me. I was laughing my ass off the whole time amd had a great time doing it .I don't think the KEVIN scene detracts at all from the season up to it but actually brought it into perspective. As Jen said the powers aren't the bad guy, Todd is a ****ing ****** and needed to taken down a peg.

Regardless of the finale she has met Daredevil, she has merged both parts of herself that she refused at the beginning. She has become a hero and a lawyer in her own right. She ****ed Murdock (get it girl). And we got to see Wong and abomInation and the impacts of legal society on them.

ABATTBQ11
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TCTTS said:

C@LAg said:

TCTTS said:



Also, "Intelligentsia" (with a "t") is a super popular hipster coffee shop chain in LA,
From Chicago, with locations in CHI, LA, NY, BOS, AUS

Even worse for him to name it that then.


I think intelli"gents"ia is more a play on men.
rhutton125
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She solved it with a closing argument
Madmarttigan
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Saxsoon said:

Honestly for me this reminded me a lot of the Loki finale where point wasn't the fight but the discussion but that is me. I was laughing my ass off the whole time amd had a great time doing it .I don't think the KEVIN scene detracts at all from the season up to it but actually brought it into perspective. As Jen said the powers aren't the bad guy, Todd is a ****ing ****** and needed to taken down a peg.

Regardless of the finale she has met Daredevil, she has merged both parts of herself that she refused at the beginning. She has become a hero and a lawyer in her own right. She ****ed Murdock (get it girl). And we got to see Wong and abomInation and the impacts of legal society on them.




Maybe I watched the wrong show but what I watched was shallow and dumb and represented almost none of that
Ghost of Bisbee
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Madmarttigan said:

Saxsoon said:

Honestly for me this reminded me a lot of the Loki finale where point wasn't the fight but the discussion but that is me. I was laughing my ass off the whole time amd had a great time doing it .I don't think the KEVIN scene detracts at all from the season up to it but actually brought it into perspective. As Jen said the powers aren't the bad guy, Todd is a ****ing ****** and needed to taken down a peg.

Regardless of the finale she has met Daredevil, she has merged both parts of herself that she refused at the beginning. She has become a hero and a lawyer in her own right. She ****ed Murdock (get it girl). And we got to see Wong and abomInation and the impacts of legal society on them.




Maybe I watched the wrong show but what I watched was shallow and dumb and represented almost none of that



This
The greatest prose to ever grace TexAgs:
https://texags.com/forums/5/topics/3216304/replies/59855160
PatAg
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Saxsoon said:

Honestly for me this reminded me a lot of the Loki finale where point wasn't the fight but the discussion but that is me. I was laughing my ass off the whole time amd had a great time doing it .I don't think the KEVIN scene detracts at all from the season up to it but actually brought it into perspective. As Jen said the powers aren't the bad guy, Todd is a ****ing ****** and needed to taken down a peg.

Regardless of the finale she has met Daredevil, she has merged both parts of herself that she refused at the beginning. She has become a hero and a lawyer in her own right. She ****ed Murdock (get it girl). And we got to see Wong and abomInation and the impacts of legal society on them.


Maybe its just because I was never expecting this show to have any sort of meaningful impact on the over Marvel storylines, and I just hoped it would be fun. Which it was
Ghost of Bisbee
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PatAg said:

Saxsoon said:

Honestly for me this reminded me a lot of the Loki finale where point wasn't the fight but the discussion but that is me. I was laughing my ass off the whole time amd had a great time doing it .I don't think the KEVIN scene detracts at all from the season up to it but actually brought it into perspective. As Jen said the powers aren't the bad guy, Todd is a ****ing ****** and needed to taken down a peg.

Regardless of the finale she has met Daredevil, she has merged both parts of herself that she refused at the beginning. She has become a hero and a lawyer in her own right. She ****ed Murdock (get it girl). And we got to see Wong and abomInation and the impacts of legal society on them.


Maybe its just because I was never expecting this show to have any sort of meaningful impact on the over Marvel storylines, and I just hoped it would be fun. Which it was


For me, if a story is connected to a franchise universe like Marvel, I expect and want it to have a meaningful impact to the universe's story, even if meant to be a side story. If it doesn't, the show shouldn't be licensed or connected to the franchise.
The greatest prose to ever grace TexAgs:
https://texags.com/forums/5/topics/3216304/replies/59855160
ABATTBQ11
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Finale was horrible. I really enjoyed it up until this episode. Felt like the ending just tried way too hard. Don't even want a season 2.
FL_Ag1998
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ABATTBQ11 said:

Finale was horrible. I really enjoyed it up until this episode. Felt like the ending just tried way too hard. Don't even want a season 2.


Ok, you're being a little melodramatic now.
PatAg
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Ghost of Bisbee said:

PatAg said:

Saxsoon said:

Honestly for me this reminded me a lot of the Loki finale where point wasn't the fight but the discussion but that is me. I was laughing my ass off the whole time amd had a great time doing it .I don't think the KEVIN scene detracts at all from the season up to it but actually brought it into perspective. As Jen said the powers aren't the bad guy, Todd is a ****ing ****** and needed to taken down a peg.

Regardless of the finale she has met Daredevil, she has merged both parts of herself that she refused at the beginning. She has become a hero and a lawyer in her own right. She ****ed Murdock (get it girl). And we got to see Wong and abomInation and the impacts of legal society on them.


Maybe its just because I was never expecting this show to have any sort of meaningful impact on the over Marvel storylines, and I just hoped it would be fun. Which it was


For me, if a story is connected to a franchise universe like Marvel, I expect and want it to have a meaningful impact to the universe's story, even if meant to be a side story. If it doesn't, the show shouldn't be licensed or connected to the franchise.
Sounds like you need to adjust your expectations. Or follow through and stop watching or talking about the show, like you said you would multiple times
FaceMask
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Just finishing Daredevil with my son, never watched it before (did watch Punisher and was told I had to see DD).

Long story short, this is the kind of show/story MCU needs to learn towards.

Can't believe how awesome DD is.
Madmarttigan
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Yeah I'm a little worried this is how daredevil was introduced back into the MCU. I hope he isn't just a gimmick and is something in a more serious nature in the future.
 
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