Agreed, I just think it has been disappointing overall they've been doing a hey remember this character you like that was well developed and paced well here is a new character that is better. They overall have the old cast so far getting dunked on and it really does a diservice to the previous movies. This one felt like the worst as She Hulk was just better in every way to Banner Hulk. Who knows if that will stay but overall it did not reel me in May watch one more but overall not into it. I mean I don't mind new characters as I know they need to bring in the New Guard to replace the Old Guard but maybe let them be eased into the role and show them growing while allowing the old guard a graceful exit. Who knows maybe they turn it around but right now I am kind of tired of Marvel

Propane & Accessories said:

---

Agreed, I just think it has been disappointing overall they've been doing a hey remember this character you like that was well developed and paced well here is a new character that is better. They overall have the old cast so far getting dunked on and it really does a diservice to the previous movies. This one felt like the worst as She Hulk was just better in every way to Banner Hulk. Who knows if that will stay but overall it did not reel me in May watch one more but overall not into it. I mean I don't mind new characters as I know they need to bring in the New Guard to replace the Old Guard but maybe let them be eased into the role and show them growing while allowing the old guard a graceful exit. Who knows maybe they turn it around but right now I am kind of tired of Marvel

---

I honestly didn't have a problem with that aspect. I thought it was pretty clear that Bruce was a superior Hulk. The point was that he was hulksplaining her hulkness to her without validating her lived hulksperience. It makes sense that he would assume she would have the same difficulties as her, since 100% of hulks prior to this had. But I think it served as a reminder that despite all of his experience and studying his own condition, he still has no idea wtf is going on with why he is the way he is.

I'm legitimately surprised that there are people who thought the Cap discussion was somehow demeaning to the character. It was sort of a running joke throughout all the earlier movies with Natasha always trying to set him up with someone and his little thing with Agent 13.

This first episode was fun.

From what I can tell, those of you who didn't like it are capable of sucking the fun out of anything. Complaining about campiness, bad CGI and a woman lead - that just tells me you never enjoyed Star Trek: Voyager either.

DubFalls said:

---

This first episode was fun.

From what I can tell, those of you who didn't like it are capable of sucking the fun out of anything. Complaining about campiness, bad CGI and a woman lead - that just tells me you never enjoyed Star Trek: Voyager either.

---

I think the majority of people don't like it because they are getting tired of using the name to get you to watch and then just feeding you cheap cgi and shallow story

DubFalls said:

---

This first episode was fun.

From what I can tell, those of you who didn't like it are capable of sucking the fun out of anything. Complaining about campiness, bad CGI and a woman lead - that just tells me you never enjoyed Star Trek: Voyager either.

---

Loved TNG and DS9, but Voyager was ass, my dude.

I'll never understand people who want the same stories over and over again. Source material aside, you'd really want Jen's story to mirror Bruce's? With his mental issues and multiple personalities? Have her go through the same struggles?

Half the point of a derivative character like She-Hulk or Red Hulk (or John Walker as Cap, or Miles or Gwen as Spidey, etc.) is to give similar powers to very different people with very different backgrounds and experiences and see how they play out.

I'd like to donkey punch she-Hulk and see what that feels like

I think it's cool that's she's able to cope with being a hulk without all the separate personalities issues.

Cartoon Mulan was a great female hero/warrior……and they screwed that up with the live version

DallasTeleAg said:

---

Finally got around to watching it. It wasn't bad, but the character is yet ANOTHER Disney female protagonist that...

• Doesn't need a man and is vocal about it.
• Already better than the male version because... reasons?
• Is arrogant with a story that basically tells us her arrogance is not a character flaw that needs to be overcome. It is earned because she's better than her male counterparts.

It's such a shame Disney refuses to make good female heroes. Other than Natasha and Jyn Erso, I can't think of another female Hero disney has that is any good.

---

Wouldn't the things you are complaining about also describe Jyn and Natasha?
I thought it was pretty clear Bruce was taking it easy on her and clearly outclassed her in things like the rock throw and hand clap. While she was better at agility things, seems fair.
I don't think she mentioned needing a man or not needing a man at all in the 30 minutes we've known her so far.
She's a lawyer trying to gain prestige, of course she's arrogant.

I thought someone pointed something out pretty funny. Given that she has complete control, she almost killed those dudes in the bar and she is in fact a psychopath and actually a villain.

I know that wasn't the intent but I laughed

So far, the only male character she has spent more than 1 scene with is her cousin, so let's chill on the 'Does Not need a man'

Besides I didn't even think she was that arrogant.
She was pretty open about the fear and anger she felt everyday. Open about the way she didn't like her male colleague demeaning her. Then eventually did admit she needed Bruce's help in controlling the transition, but didn't want his help with being a hero.
She's probably more outwardly arrogant, and thinks she has to be to compete in a male driven profession, but really lacks confidence that She-Hulk can give her.

DallasTeleAg said:

---

Finally got around to watching it. It wasn't bad, but the character is yet ANOTHER Disney female protagonist that...

• Doesn't need a man and is vocal about it.
• Already better than the male version because... reasons?
• Is arrogant with a story that basically tells us her arrogance is not a character flaw that needs to be overcome. It is earned because she's better than her male counterparts.

It's such a shame Disney refuses to make good female heroes. Other than Natasha and Jyn Erso, I can't think of another female Hero disney has that is any good.

---

Rheeeeee.jpg

Someone clearly didn't watch Hawkeye nor Ms marvel.

And Yelena is another great marvel female hero.

You obviously weren't watching or paying attention.

And no, I don't think the examples I gave suffer from the same crap Disney feeds us. Jyn Erso's character was selfish at the beginning. She didn't care about the civil war unless it affected her. By the end, she realized she needed to do something about it. That' character development. Not giving us a selfish character and telling us that was a good thing and there's nothing wrong with her. I was fine with her being able to fight because she had spent her entire life training under Saul Gerrera.

Now I have a She Hulk who is substantially smaller than Hulk, with nowhere NEAR the experience he had, and she stalemates him? Okay, Rey. Sure, i'll buy that one.

It's pretty impressive you are able to judge so much of her character and it's development in a 30 minute pilot/origin episode. Give her a chance to grow. That's a big thing in her comics run is how much she loves being She-Hulk, the power and confidence it gives her. Jen is still trying to hide and deny She-Hulk.

Again, it was pretty clear Bruce was holding back.

Yeah, some of y'all need to chill the **** out. It's been 30 minutes. We're not even to the actual show yet which is a legal sitcom. Just because we've seen her origin / discovery of powers doesn't mean that's it for her growth as a character.

I'm as allergic as the next person to Mary Sues but this isn't that. I felt like Hulk and Jennifer both had a point - if the show were trying to sway us entirely to Jennifer's side, then Hulk probably wouldn't have been as convincing. But we've seen him hulk out enough times to trust what he has to say and where he's coming from.

This She-Hulk is not a finished project - she's just different than Bruce in all the important ways we've seen so far (no split personality, no desire to be a hero, not going to lose control). Now that that's been established, we can watch this person with absurd brawn in an extremely brains and charisma -driven industry try and handle both sides of things. That journey will probably involve some punching, sometimes involve no punching at all, and will likely bring all kinds of MCU world-building elements like D-list villains, superhero rights, collateral damage, cameos, cross-overs, Easter eggs, and yes - fun in-world discussions on whether a beloved hero ever got his **** wet.

If that doesn't appeal to you at all then you probably picked the wrong show, and can wiki it later.

AliasMan02 said:

---

I'll never understand people who want the same stories over and over again. Source material aside, you'd really want Jen's story to mirror Bruce's? With his mental issues and multiple personalities? Have her go through the same struggles?

Half the point of a derivative character like She-Hulk or Red Hulk (or John Walker as Cap, or Miles or Gwen as Spidey, etc.) is to give similar powers to very different people with very different backgrounds and experiences and see how they play out.

---

The problem with Phase 4 is they are just gender-swapping established male characters. They aren't putting a twist on an old story, they are just putting a woman without any moral/character defect in the place of the legacy character.

It's so damn derivative it's unappealing. It would only be mildly appealing is if the women were allowed to be at all sexually attractive. But ffs even Scarlet Johannson was like "stop sexualizing my characater, cover me up with a moomoo." (Mind you this had nothing to do with her hitting 40 and realizing the opportunities for her start to dry up if she doesn't start being a better actress.)

Anyway back to the issue at hand. They are trying to make the MCU into something that has no appeal. Do we really GAF about an avengers film where Ms Marvel (Muslim girl Mr fantastic ripoff) leads Girl Hawkeye, Guatemala Chavez, shuri-panther, and black female "smarter and younger than Tony stark" ironheart into battle, oh and falcon and Spiderman just take orders from Ms marvel despite them having more experience and seniority.

This sure seems like a lot of projecting. None of that has even happened yet, or didn't happen at all (they side stepped Ms Marvel having Mr Fantastic's powers - but you'd know that if you watched the show).

Quote:

---

The problem with Phase 4 is they are just gender-swapping established male characters. They aren't putting a twist on an old story, they are just putting a woman without any moral/character defect in the place of the legacy character.

---

Isn't She-Hulk a twist on an old story in that she has different struggles and traits than Hulk did? And I sure didn't get the impression that she had no defects and was perfect and would be replacing Hulk. I think she's just going to have to figure out how to be She-Hulk for herself. No amount of time in a lab or doing yoga is going to teach her whatever she's going to need to know across the next 8 episodes (I assume).