That seems like a really ugly stat but it might be a stat that is much lower than you think for other shows. Wonder what it is for some successful shows.

Madmarttigan said:

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That seems like a really ugly stat but it might be a stat that is much lower than you think for other shows. Wonder what it is for some successful shows.

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(A 50 percent completion rate would be a solid but not spectacular result, according to insiders).

An L of an Ag said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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I've never read anything outside of LOTR and The Hobbit, so I don't have a dog in that fight.

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You really should read The Silmarllion. Great stories and characters in their own right, besides being the setup for the Third Age winding down with LOTR.

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Just dont make the mistake most people do, and treat it like an actual finished product by Tolkien.
The core of each story is great though.

cbr said:

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Honestly the lack of talent and vision behind this lost opportunity is just utterly mind boggling. Its no surprise not many finished it. I had to force myself to sit through it and i grew up on tolkien and love it.

So thankful for peter jackson and cast.

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For the LotR version of Jackson, atleast.
I can forgive him of anything for delivering tha trilogy to us.

C@LAg said:

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Madmarttigan said:

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That seems like a really ugly stat but it might be a stat that is much lower than you think for other shows. Wonder what it is for some successful shows.

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(A 50 percent completion rate would be a solid but not spectacular result, according to insiders).

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What's the source on that 50% stat, just curious.

Madmarttigan said:

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That seems like a really ugly stat but it might be a stat that is much lower than you think for other shows. Wonder what it is for some successful shows.

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https://www.whats-on-netflix.com/news/are-completion-rates-key-to-netflix-cancelations/

The crux of that analysis is basically that anything below 50% is a death sentence at Netflix. 37% is... Very bad.

The Porkchop Express said:

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C@LAg said:

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Madmarttigan said:

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That seems like a really ugly stat but it might be a stat that is much lower than you think for other shows. Wonder what it is for some successful shows.

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(A 50 percent completion rate would be a solid but not spectacular result, according to insiders).

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What's the source on that 50% stat, just curious.

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the posted article where the 37% number came from

From the latest Puck newsletter...

Quote:

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It's hard to talk about completion rates without good comparisons or a benchmark for success. Netflix's Resident Evil had a 45 percent completion rate and was canceled after one season, for example, while the animated series Arcane, with a completion rate of 60 percent, was renewed. Of course, those are Netflix series, not a billion-dollar franchise play.

Other contextual factors are missing, too. How much did Rings of Powerdrive audiences to Prime Video versus other series? How much did it increase customer acquisition overseas, especially in emerging territories where the Prime e-commerce business isn't as established? Are the new subscribers highly engaged with the service, or more likely to churn? Did people who watched Rings of Power go on to buy something on Prime?

Completion rates are important markers of engagement, of course, and especially valuable for advertisers. If you purchase a pre-roll ad on the sixth episode of a series and 63 percent of the initial audience doesn't get that far, the impact is far lower. Not great! But as someone who spends every day in the data mines, I can say with authority that we don't have enough information to declare Rings a flop. (The streamers have no reason to release better data, so why should they?) Yes, the headline number doesn't look good for Amazon, but it's actually a perfect example of why the economics of streaming are so complicated.

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Basically the same sentiment...

That's not to say the Amazon model is working. They are bleeding money in insane ways. There's no way they can sustain what they're doing, even if they consider it a loss leader.

— DrewMcWeeny (@DrewMcWeeny) April 5, 2023

The Porkchop Express said:

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At some point you would think the thread would just be people who enjoyed it, like talking about it, and are looking forward to the next season. But, sometimes I forget, this is the Internet.

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Ha, even I enjoyed this show and think the criticism is over-the-top.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Amazon spent north of $750+ million on RoP ($1.5 million/minute of content) and intended it to be a flagship, brand defining series. Sorry that news that it had a terrible completion rate hurts, but it is what it is and is worthy of discussion considering the cost and implications. That kind of audience retention is typical of shows about to be cancelled because they're losing 10%-15% of their audience every week, especially when they cost as much as RoP.

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I mean, it's their money, not mine. They still made a fun, enjoyable show to me personally.

And I thought all the sets, costumes, backgrounds, computer visuals were pretty spectacular. Had tons of fun watching LOTR come back to life again. Again minus the hobbits. I'm sure the first season is particularly expensive as the build the sets.

Granted, I was just hoping it wouldn't be a disaster after watching the trailer.

CondensedFogAggie said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Amazon spent north of $750+ million on RoP ($1.5 million/minute of content) and intended it to be a flagship, brand defining series. Sorry that news that it had a terrible completion rate hurts, but it is what it is and is worthy of discussion considering the cost and implications. That kind of audience retention is typical of shows about to be cancelled because they're losing 10%-15% of their audience every week, especially when they cost as much as RoP.

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I mean, it's their money, not mine. They still made a fun, enjoyable show to me personally.

And I thought all the sets, costumes, backgrounds, computer visuals were pretty spectacular. Had tons of fun watching LOTR come back to life again. Again minus the hobbits. I'm sure the first season is particularly expensive as the build the sets.

Granted, I was just hoping it wouldn't be a disaster after watching the trailer.

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And that's all fine, but there's apparently a lot of butthurt that other people thought differently and dared mention it. The only reason it's getting mentioned again is the horrible metrics which would have precluded a renewal anywhere else. Considering the budget (which is supposed to be the same or more for season 2 and represents 5% of Amazon's video AND music expenses) and the viewership, I would be a little shocked at this point of there was a season 3. Yes, season 2 has not come out yet, but if less than 40% of viewers bothered to finish season 1, I can't imagine season 2 will outperform it and justify the astronomical price tag.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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CondensedFogAggie said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Amazon spent north of $750+ million on RoP ($1.5 million/minute of content) and intended it to be a flagship, brand defining series. Sorry that news that it had a terrible completion rate hurts, but it is what it is and is worthy of discussion considering the cost and implications. That kind of audience retention is typical of shows about to be cancelled because they're losing 10%-15% of their audience every week, especially when they cost as much as RoP.

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I mean, it's their money, not mine. They still made a fun, enjoyable show to me personally.

And I thought all the sets, costumes, backgrounds, computer visuals were pretty spectacular. Had tons of fun watching LOTR come back to life again. Again minus the hobbits. I'm sure the first season is particularly expensive as the build the sets.

Granted, I was just hoping it wouldn't be a disaster after watching the trailer.

---

And that's all fine, but there's apparently a lot of butthurt that other people thought differently and dared mention it. The only reason it's getting mentioned again is the horrible metrics which would have precluded a renewal anywhere else. Considering the budget (which is supposed to be the same or more for season 2 and represents 5% of Amazon's video AND music expenses) and the viewership, I would be a little shocked at this point of there was a season 3. Yes, season 2 has not come out yet, but if less than 40% of viewers bothered to finish season 1, I can't imagine season 2 will outperform it and justify the astronomical price tag.

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Which is yes a valid point, I wouldn't want the results of the first season discourage execs and stop new lotr content for another 15 years

But then again this is Amazon, lotr is the one only card they have in the stream wars

The only complaint that I've really agreed with concerned the inconsistency with the Harfoots and their tight-knit, "nobody walks alone," we're one big loving family vibe, contrasted with, "Oh, you broke your foot? We're leaving you to die" or "Nori brought The Stranger around, let's take the wheels off their cart and banish them to death."

Poor writing, there.

CondensedFogAggie said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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CondensedFogAggie said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Amazon spent north of $750+ million on RoP ($1.5 million/minute of content) and intended it to be a flagship, brand defining series. Sorry that news that it had a terrible completion rate hurts, but it is what it is and is worthy of discussion considering the cost and implications. That kind of audience retention is typical of shows about to be cancelled because they're losing 10%-15% of their audience every week, especially when they cost as much as RoP.

---

I mean, it's their money, not mine. They still made a fun, enjoyable show to me personally.

And I thought all the sets, costumes, backgrounds, computer visuals were pretty spectacular. Had tons of fun watching LOTR come back to life again. Again minus the hobbits. I'm sure the first season is particularly expensive as the build the sets.

Granted, I was just hoping it wouldn't be a disaster after watching the trailer.

---

And that's all fine, but there's apparently a lot of butthurt that other people thought differently and dared mention it. The only reason it's getting mentioned again is the horrible metrics which would have precluded a renewal anywhere else. Considering the budget (which is supposed to be the same or more for season 2 and represents 5% of Amazon's video AND music expenses) and the viewership, I would be a little shocked at this point of there was a season 3. Yes, season 2 has not come out yet, but if less than 40% of viewers bothered to finish season 1, I can't imagine season 2 will outperform it and justify the astronomical price tag.

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Which is yes a valid point, I wouldn't want the results of the first season discourage execs and stop new lotr content for another 15 years

But then again this is Amazon, lotr is the one only card they have in the stream wars

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It's kind of a half card. They don't own the rights to a lot of Tolkien's works.

It's not exactly a question of discouraging execs, it's a question of how long can they sink this budget into it based on the audience and ROI. IMO, this whole thing was a terrible idea and shows that Amazon's media arm is kind of out of touch.

For one, anything in streaming with a massive budget is probably a bad idea. It puts a lot of eggs into one basket with negligible potential upside. RoP has, AFAIK, the largest budget of any streaming show or movie ever. In terms of cost per minute of content, it's kind of staggering. In terms of its percentage of Amazon's overall budget, it's immense. That's a huge risk that requires a huge increase in subscriptions to pay off, which is a big gamble for any streamer because the entire industry is kind of out of its growth phase and leveling off. I've laid out the reasoning before, but suffice it here to say I don't believe big budget films have the impact on catalogue and subscribers to justify production by streamers unless they have a wide theatrical release to help pay for themselves through ticket sales.

For two, they made a big deal about essentially refreshing Tolkien's work with a more diverse casting and making it more modern. Whether you agree with that or not, it's obviously a polarizing decision that is going to split your potential audience. If your ultimate goal is adding subscriptions, you need mass appeal to capture new audiences. Making the show polarizing before it's even aired is the exact opposite of that. There's no way that kind of announcement and artistic direction is going to draw more viewers than it alienates, especially when it comes to new subscribers.

For three, the sci-fi/fantasy genre is currently saturated between streamers. I'm sure Amazon thought this would be different because LotR and Tolkien effectively created the mass marketability of the genre, but that also means there is going to be a much higher bar and more purists to appease. Again, this goes against points 1 & 2 based on the direction they took. It would have been better to not **** up WoT, find an IP in a different genre, or create something original.


If it were me making the decision, I'd have scaled things back considerably and played it more conservatively. Apple, Disney, Netflix, and HBO have all hit home runs with much lower budget, original series. If it works, scale up. If it doesn't, losses are minimized. The way the metrics look, RoP is like a movie with a blockbuster budget that will barely recoup its production cost, and they're already making the sequel.


ETA TLDR this is a business decision eventually. A lot of people may like the series, but it has to be enough to justify the budget. A lot of people like Shadow and Bone on Netflix and it was the #1 show for a bit, but even it's facing the axe because it isn't popular enough to justify it's production budget.

I liked the show way more than I liked the Hobbit trilogy. New people, new places, a multi-sided conflict with lots of interesting characters to root for / against. The real problem is the longer in the tooth stuff that you're creating new versions of, the more hate you're going to get from it - Tolkien, Star Wars, etc. They've got 45-80 years of fandom, and people get set in their ways about how things "should be" even though most of our entertainment overall is just reimaginings of classic stories.

One thing I wondered in regards to the streaming numbers and people finishing...

Are people more likely to finish a series of it's all dumped at once to binge? I bet this show would have been more successful as a binge.