*****The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power*****

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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Lathspell • 1:07p, 9/15/22
AG
It's worth noting that some of my favorite moments in the films came from PJ/Walsh/Boyens.

For example, I prefer Boromir's final words in the movie, accepting Aragorn as King with his final breath. And the Lighting of the Beacons doesn't happen in the book, yet it makes for an amazing scene cinematically.

Gandalf fighting the Balrog happens "offscreen" in the book, but was an awesome way to open TTT movie.

Sam's speech at the end of TTT. Etc.
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Lathspell
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In reply to PatAg • 1:10p, 9/15/22
AG
PatAg said:

I'm not sure I agree they have done no worldbuilding in this show.
Not a 0/10 in worldbuilding, but I would give it around a 5/10. When compared to the source material, and the original trilogy, that is what I call "throwing out the window".
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Lathspell
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 1:11p, 9/15/22
AG
The lighting of the beacons happens in the book. It's just not a cinematic piece like the movies.

'Where are we, Gandalf?' he asked.

'In the realm of Gondor,' the wizard answered. 'the land of Anorien is still passing by.'

There was a silence again for a while. Then, 'What is that?' cried Pippin suddenly, clutching at Gandalf's cloak. 'Look! Fire, red fire! Are there dragons in this land? Look, there is another!'

For answer Gandalf cried aloud to his horse. 'On, Shadowfax! We must hasten. Time is short. See! The beacons of Gondor are alight, calling for aid. War is kindled. See, there is the first on Amon Din, and flame on Eilenach; and there they go speeding west: Nardol, Erelas, Min-Rimmon, Calenhad, and the Halifirien on the borders of Rohan.'
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Lathspell • 1:13p, 9/15/22
AG
In the book it's not Gondor requesting aid from Rohan, and it's not really even mentioned except for Gandalf riding past one lit beacon as I recall.
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The Porkchop Express
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 1:15p, 9/15/22
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
And the Lighting of the Beacons doesn't happen in the book, yet it makes for an amazing scene cinematically.

Not only is it in the book, but Denethor lights them himself 2 days before the Siege of Gondor begins.

The Steward of Gondor would like your apology, or you can enter into his service.

"See! The beacons of Gondor are alight, calling for aid. War is kindled. See, there is the fire on Amon Dn, and flame on Eilenach; and there they go speeding west: Nardol, Erelas, Min-Rimmon, Calenhad, and the Halifirien on the borders of Rohan."Gandalf, in The Return of the King
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 1:17p, 9/15/22
AG
It's a very small passage and not actually described is my point. There's no dramatic scene of the call for aid reaching Edoras.

Point being, the movies made a lot of great decisions that didn't come directly from the text.
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The Porkchop Express
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 1:18p, 9/15/22
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
It's a very small passage and not actually described is my point. There's no dramatic scene of the call for aid reaching Edoras.
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Lathspell
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1:19p, 9/15/22
AG
He also immediately passes riders who are speeding to deliver messages.

Again, one of the pieces that looks cool in the movie, but I didn't like how Denethor of the movie basically was useless. The Denethor of the book did what he thought was all he can do, and ultimately deteriorated through despair by way of the Palantir and Sauron poisoning his mind.
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The Porkchop Express
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In reply to Lathspell • 1:24p, 9/15/22
AG
DallasTeleAg said:
He also immediately passes riders who are speeding to deliver messages.

Again, one of the pieces that looks cool in the movie, but I didn't like how Denethor of the movie basically was useless. The Denethor of the book did what he thought was all he can do, and ultimately deteriorated through despair by way of the Palantir and Sauron poisoning his mind.
He definitely got a bad wrap in the movies, but I guess that was necessary. In the books he sends everyone away from Minas Tirith before the Orc army gets there, and he uses his Palantir trying to spy on Sauron and gauge his strength level. It's Theoden who is made a slave/puppet, while Denethor, while going crazy, resists submission.
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Lathspell
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1:24p, 9/15/22
AG
Anyways... this is discussion for the LotR thread. Back on the show:

I've already given my opinion on much of the worldbuilding failure earlier in this thread. This is usually were I would post Brandon Sanderson's lecture on key points to writing a fantasy story.
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Lathspell
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 1:38p, 9/15/22
AG
I didn't say he was enslaved. I said he deteriorated from despair, and did so from the machinations of Sauron:

'Now I understand what seemed so strange to me!' said Pippin, shuddering at his memories as he spoke. 'The Lord went away from the room where Faramir lay; and it was only when he returned that I first thought he was changed, old and broken.'

'It was in the very hour that Faramir was brought to the Tower that many of us saw a strange light in the topmost chamber,' said Beregond. 'But we have seen that light before, and it has long been rumoured in the City that the Lord would at times wrestle in thought with his Enemy.'

'Alas! then I have guessed rightly,' said Gandalf. 'Thus the will of Sauron entered into Minas Tirith; and thus I have been delayed here. And here I shall still be forced to remain, for I shall soon have other charges, not Faramir only.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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1:40p, 9/15/22
AG
Somehow I knew my post would trigger some "akshually"s and quickly devolve from there.
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The Porkchop Express
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In reply to Lathspell • 1:59p, 9/15/22
AG
DallasTeleAg said:
I didn't say he was enslaved. I said he deteriorated from despair, and did so from the machinations of Sauron:

'Now I understand what seemed so strange to me!' said Pippin, shuddering at his memories as he spoke. 'The Lord went away from the room where Faramir lay; and it was only when he returned that I first thought he was changed, old and broken.'

'It was in the very hour that Faramir was brought to the Tower that many of us saw a strange light in the topmost chamber,' said Beregond. 'But we have seen that light before, and it has long been rumoured in the City that the Lord would at times wrestle in thought with his Enemy.'

'Alas! then I have guessed rightly,' said Gandalf. 'Thus the will of Sauron entered into Minas Tirith; and thus I have been delayed here. And here I shall still be forced to remain, for I shall soon have other charges, not Faramir only.
I wasn't trying to correct you or say that your statement was wrong. I didn't even read what you wrote.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 2:04p, 9/15/22
AG
You mean what you just did?
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The Porkchop Express
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 2:06p, 9/15/22
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
You mean what you just did?
I don't get it?
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 2:09p, 9/15/22
AG
When you tried to correct what I said just a few posts above.
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The Porkchop Express
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 2:11p, 9/15/22
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
When you tried to correct what I said just a few posts above.
Oh, I see. Well, you were wrong, so justice had to be meted out

I've got the other guy on ignore, so I didn't see his post originally, but when I saw he had directly responded to me, I clicked it. I just didn't want him thinking I was trying to start an argument.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 2:13p, 9/15/22
AG
Big difference between something happening offscreen in a book and being a focus. Clearly I didn't mean the beacons didn't exist in the book, but that the scene they did in the movie was not actually done that way in the book.

And you knew that.
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The Porkchop Express
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2:24p, 9/15/22
AG
Actually I didn't. I wasn't sure if you had read the books or not. I couldn't remember, it's hard enough trying to keep up with all the books TC hasn't read (all of them). I apologize for coming off as arbitrary and pedantic.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 3:43p, 9/15/22
AG
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Brian Earl Spilner
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4:06p, 9/15/22
AG
So here's a good example of of what I was talking about earlier. The cinematography in FOTR vs ROP...





While they both undoubtedly look fantastic, one just screams fantasy, and the other, while more vibrant, just has more of a modern, maybe digital look. I don't know if it just comes down to shooting digitally, but I suspect it's more about the choices of the cinematographer. I just wish they'd made it look a little closer to the LOTR trilogy than what it looks like. (Btw, I feel the same about The Hobbit trilogy.)
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canadiaggie
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 4:15p, 9/15/22
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
So here's a good example of of what I was talking about earlier. The cinematography in FOTR vs ROP...





While they both undoubtedly look fantastic, one just screams fantasy, and the other, while more vibrant, just has more of a modern, maybe digital look. I don't know if it just comes down to shooting digitally, but I suspect it's more about the choices of the cinematographer. I just wish they'd made it look a little closer to the LOTR trilogy than what it looks like. (Btw, I feel the same about The Hobbit trilogy.)


Can't see the second pic but I'm gonna assume it's the Argonath. I generally agree with you but I think the difference is also in the lighting effects and deliberate choice. The Argonath embody this forgotten, faded glory - kind of like Aragorn's own shabby appearance while he wears the mantle of Ranger - while Numenor seems to be this gleaming unsullied beacon of power (which we generally know is just a veneer over the rot underneath). I get what they're going for.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to canadiaggie • 4:25p, 9/15/22
AG
Fixed. But the Argonath is just one example.

Here's some more. ROP has never reached this level of atmosphere for me.



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Brian Earl Spilner
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4:33p, 9/15/22
AG
Also, I do agree with the thought that Numenor is meant to show a kingdom at its peak, which could be part of the decision, but I feel the same about every area we've seen so far.
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canadiaggie
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 4:39p, 9/15/22
AG
Yeah, I see what you mean. There is more of a bright "digital" filter in the show, while I think the film trilogy alternated well between warm and cool tones as needed. I think it was also more grainy, the world feeling more lived in, in the movies.
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The Porkchop Express
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9:58p, 9/15/22
AG
Doesn't Boromir look as uncomfortable as hell here?

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OnlyForNow
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 10:00p, 9/15/22
AG
Little known Easter egg… he is. They gave him a dwarf sized chair.
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redline248
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12:28a, 9/16/22
AG
Well, things are moving, now.

I wonder where the Numenoreans are going to find the rest of the lost palantir stones to put them in the cities around middle earth
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Faustus
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 12:31a, 9/16/22
The Porkchop Express said:
Doesn't Boromir look as uncomfortable as hell here?



It's probably just Bean pouting and slouching he never gets to play the hero (Patriot Games, Golden Eye, National Treasure, The Island, The Hitcher, Snowpiercer, LOTR, etc.*), and thinking to himself if he was cast as the hero it would probably be as Ned Stark and he'd end up dead anyway.






* liberties taken with filmography for dramatic effect
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Engine10
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12:32a, 9/16/22
AG
Yeah we're starting to come downhill now. Need time to process the details but enjoyed this week. Episode review:
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Quincey P. Morris
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3:05a, 9/16/22
AG
Seems about right.


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CondensedFogAggie
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3:53a, 9/16/22
Holy **** what an amazing episode.

The music, the cinematography, the characters. Almost every character had their moments in this episode. What a badass ending too. Probably the best episode so far.

Also, no Hobbits. And nice to see that ol sword again

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redline248
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7:50a, 9/16/22
AG
Those numenoreans had a pretty quick turn around in disposition toward elves and the leaders who befriend them.


Oh, and no Hobbits means no dwarves or numenor next episode, probably
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Maximus_Meridius
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9:51a, 9/16/22
AG
Hmm. Not sure what to think. Happy about the no Harfoots, but not sure how I feel about the Numenor storyline this week. Need to watch it again.

Elrond/Durin/Disa was good, though. They're probably going to wreck that ship in the next episode because the preview shows Elrond handing the mythril to someone (Gil-Galad or Celebrimbor if I had to guess). Curious how Elrond gets around his oath.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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11:01a, 9/16/22
AG
Easily my favorite episode yet. (It's probably no coincidence that there were no Harfoots in this one.)

It feels like we're finally getting out of the stage-setting phase and making good progress in each storyline. Really enjoyed both the Numenor and the Khazad-dum scenes. I loved Elrond's speech to Durin about his father. It's really cool hearing about Ealendil and the Evening Star. (If you recall the light Galadriel gives to Frodo which he uses in Shelob's Lair, that is where the power of that light comes from.)

The imagery of the white leaves falling was great. Very reminiscent of Minas Tirith.

I love seeing the corrupted Elf commanding the orcs. Tolkien wrote that the earliest orcs were once Elves, but I don't believe we ever saw one in any of his writings, so that was pretty neat. Who knows, that might even be the first orc.

Looking forward to Numenor's armies arriving in Middle Earth and maybe colliding with the other main storyline.
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