Perfect use of that dialogue.
*****The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power*****
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Last: 21 days ago by maroon man
Haven't seen the whole episode yet but I honestly found the ar-Pharazon scene a little cringey. Maybe it's the actor - he's not bad, delivers the lines just fine, but I pictured Pharazon as more of a warrior meathead type and less of this erudite statesman who looks like a Civil War general
One thing that bothers me is that the show lacks subtlety (though this was a good episode). Particularly:
it's established, and even told to us, that the leaves of the white tree falling are a bad omen, the tears of the Valar in a prior episode. Even after directly telling the audience, they have to tell us again when they start falling after Galadriel starts to leave. The voice-over flashback detracts from the scene, especially since it was composed well enough otherwise that even someone who missed it the explanation in the prior episode would have been able to pick up it was a bad omen
it's established, and even told to us, that the leaves of the white tree falling are a bad omen, the tears of the Valar in a prior episode. Even after directly telling the audience, they have to tell us again when they start falling after Galadriel starts to leave. The voice-over flashback detracts from the scene, especially since it was composed well enough otherwise that even someone who missed it the explanation in the prior episode would have been able to pick up it was a bad omen
Agree, that scene was a perfect chance for a "Light of the Seven" moment. Voiced its meaning once, now tell the story through what has always been the strong point in the modern LOTR arsenal, the music. With almost no words at all, we should know the good times are about to end and evil approaches.
I enjoyed this episode a lot.
The palantir that Galadriel touched and only shows the flood...wasn't there a palantir on Numenor that faced West only? I was reminded of something like that during that scene.
Also, I'm gonna guess Elendil has some palantiri hidden and they'll be taken with him when he flees Numenor. Pretty sure something like that happens in the books.
The palantir that Galadriel touched and only shows the flood...wasn't there a palantir on Numenor that faced West only? I was reminded of something like that during that scene.
Also, I'm gonna guess Elendil has some palantiri hidden and they'll be taken with him when he flees Numenor. Pretty sure something like that happens in the books.
I think that's a problem with a lot of the writing in this show; lack of subtlety. They have to tell us everything and spell it out from other characters instead of showing us.
Take the scene with Halbrand helping Galadriel break down the previous confrontation with the Queen Regent. Again, how has this Galadriel been alive for so long, but yet lacks ANY semblance of wisdom. Elrond has been shown to be a much wiser character, so far.
They could have had Galadriel work that whole confrontation out, herself. But no, she had to have Halbrand be the voice of reason. Galadriel has so far just been presented as a thug with no grace, wisdom, or command. I also think I've pinpointed one of the things that bothers me about the actress playing her. She seems to say all her lines with a clenched jaw, barely opening her mouth. She just lacks any form of greatness from the Galadriel we have come to know through Tolkien's work.
This presence I look for in my LotR heroes is something we saw in many of the great characters from original trilogy. Gandalf, Elrond, Aragorn, Galadriel, and several others where believably heroes of their time. I think that is something I love so much about Elendil and Arondir in this show. They demonstrate this same air of command and competence. Again, these two show to be the strongest characters in this show, for me. I also do like Durin and Elrond, but I would put them at a tier below Elendil and Arondir. Durin does seem to embody the temperament of a dwarf, though.
I really liked the imagery of the white tree losing its petals, but agree that I didn't appreciate exactly how they executed what followed.
Take the scene with Halbrand helping Galadriel break down the previous confrontation with the Queen Regent. Again, how has this Galadriel been alive for so long, but yet lacks ANY semblance of wisdom. Elrond has been shown to be a much wiser character, so far.
They could have had Galadriel work that whole confrontation out, herself. But no, she had to have Halbrand be the voice of reason. Galadriel has so far just been presented as a thug with no grace, wisdom, or command. I also think I've pinpointed one of the things that bothers me about the actress playing her. She seems to say all her lines with a clenched jaw, barely opening her mouth. She just lacks any form of greatness from the Galadriel we have come to know through Tolkien's work.
This presence I look for in my LotR heroes is something we saw in many of the great characters from original trilogy. Gandalf, Elrond, Aragorn, Galadriel, and several others where believably heroes of their time. I think that is something I love so much about Elendil and Arondir in this show. They demonstrate this same air of command and competence. Again, these two show to be the strongest characters in this show, for me. I also do like Durin and Elrond, but I would put them at a tier below Elendil and Arondir. Durin does seem to embody the temperament of a dwarf, though.
I really liked the imagery of the white tree losing its petals, but agree that I didn't appreciate exactly how they executed what followed.
Oh... and didn't miss the Harfoot stuff one bit.
I am trying to like this show…..it is coming off as a cheap knock off and I just moderately enjoying the story.
Yep in the Galdriel scene you described, they could've found a nice middle ground between direct exposition via dialogue and letting the audience make connections with something like
Conversation in the cell, Galdriel says "she didn't lose her composure until"...interrupted by the guards coming to lead her to the boat, scene proceeds as follows, even including Halbrand's "what if you knew where she was going line"...cut to scene in the tower. Instead we got 20-30 seconds of lazy dialogue.
In short: show me, don't tell me Amazon.
Conversation in the cell, Galdriel says "she didn't lose her composure until"...interrupted by the guards coming to lead her to the boat, scene proceeds as follows, even including Halbrand's "what if you knew where she was going line"...cut to scene in the tower. Instead we got 20-30 seconds of lazy dialogue.
In short: show me, don't tell me Amazon.
It's not perfect but it is a pretty damn beautiful show and I gotta say I love that they returned to real life orcs instead of the hobbit cgi fest.
I thought the dwarf prayer was pretty interesting and enjoy Elronds interactions with them. I agree that Galadriel from a leadership/intelligence/presence standpoint is being presented as the weakest and dumbest character so far which seems a little off to me after seeing her in the movies. I think they are trying to show she is singularly driven by her hatred for Sauron but she just comes off rash and dumb instead. It's not as though she is some young nave hothead, she's been alive for hundreds/thousands? of years and she should know some tact and diplomacy in her interactions.
Also that opening dream sequence was crazy and intense.
I thought the dwarf prayer was pretty interesting and enjoy Elronds interactions with them. I agree that Galadriel from a leadership/intelligence/presence standpoint is being presented as the weakest and dumbest character so far which seems a little off to me after seeing her in the movies. I think they are trying to show she is singularly driven by her hatred for Sauron but she just comes off rash and dumb instead. It's not as though she is some young nave hothead, she's been alive for hundreds/thousands? of years and she should know some tact and diplomacy in her interactions.
Also that opening dream sequence was crazy and intense.
Madmarttigan said:
It's not perfect but it is a pretty damn beautiful show and I gotta say I love that they returned to real life orcs instead of the hobbit cgi fest.
I thought the dwarf prayer was pretty interesting and enjoy Elronds interactions with them. I agree that Galadriel from a leadership/intelligence/presence standpoint is being presented as the weakest and dumbest character so far which seems a little off to me after seeing her in the movies. I think they are trying to show she is singularly driven by her hatred for Sauron but she just comes off rash and dumb instead. It's not as though she is some young nave hothead, she's been alive for hundreds/thousands? of years and she should know some tact and diplomacy in her interactions.
Also that opening dream sequence was crazy and intense.
I don't see her as weak, but traumatized as a result of her loss.
I'm always aware I'm probably being generous because I like this show so much.
I suppose seeing your brother you've known for thousands of years dead with a evil symbol carved on his body by the murderer who is still at large is traumatizing.AgE2theBONE said:Madmarttigan said:
It's not perfect but it is a pretty damn beautiful show and I gotta say I love that they returned to real life orcs instead of the hobbit cgi fest.
I thought the dwarf prayer was pretty interesting and enjoy Elronds interactions with them. I agree that Galadriel from a leadership/intelligence/presence standpoint is being presented as the weakest and dumbest character so far which seems a little off to me after seeing her in the movies. I think they are trying to show she is singularly driven by her hatred for Sauron but she just comes off rash and dumb instead. It's not as though she is some young nave hothead, she's been alive for hundreds/thousands? of years and she should know some tact and diplomacy in her interactions.
Also that opening dream sequence was crazy and intense.
I don't see her as weak, but traumatized as a result of her loss.
I'm always aware I'm probably being generous because I like this show so much.
That being said, yeah, a bit more flexibility would be nice.
I'm sure she'll grow through the seasons.
I think what I bolded is the crux of the issue, and if done well could have been great. I personally still like it, it doesnt ruin the show for me.Madmarttigan said:
It's not perfect but it is a pretty damn beautiful show and I gotta say I love that they returned to real life orcs instead of the hobbit cgi fest.
I thought the dwarf prayer was pretty interesting and enjoy Elronds interactions with them. I agree that Galadriel from a leadership/intelligence/presence standpoint is being presented as the weakest and dumbest character so far which seems a little off to me after seeing her in the movies. I think they are trying to show she is singularly driven by her hatred for Sauron but she just comes off rash and dumb instead. It's not as though she is some young nave hothead, she's been alive for hundreds/thousands? of years and she should know some tact and diplomacy in her interactions.
Also that opening dream sequence was crazy and intense.
Episode 4 Likes
Everything Dwarfish - Elrond being able to hear them talking from a staggering distance, the reveal of the Mithril - I had just explained what it was to my daughter and she responded like I was a GD genius lol - the ceremony to try and help the trapped dwarves escape was cool, you totally thought that was a funeral dirge, and the very impressive way that you saw the guy playing Elrond immediately go back on his oath (in his head at least) when he saw the substance. I think that's a pretty good interpretation of the Elves' rationalization of most things, that sort of "Yes, but... we know best, so we're doing it this way." I got a real vibe of the way the hot Vulcan girl acted on Star Trek: Enterprise, where she was there to advise the humans as they went into space, but had about 90 other plans from Vulcan High Command going on. Also the little nod to Durin's dad being really cautious about how deep they mine.
Everything Arondir - Easily my favorite character. Really portrays the fear and unrest and confusion of what/who/why Arda is. Great action scene again when he catches the arrow in mid-air. It's tough to have an Elf od something that Legolas didn't do across 5 movies, but that was sweet.
Episode 4 Dislikes
Most of what happened in Numeanor - the people there are the most highly cultured humans around, but they flip flop on their opinion from anti-elf to elf-tolerant to we must help our beloved elf friends in the course of what, 18 hours?
I couldn't remember who Isildur's sister was until she sat down at the table with him. I'm sure her little flirt flirt with the prime minister's son will be important later, but it was kinda flat. Isildur might have just said "Hey I don't want to be a sea guard" instead of getting 2 of his friends screwed over. But I guess that got all 3 of them into the navy together. Could have been a great closing shot to have the Village People's "In the Navy" playing over their war prep.
The Old King being too sick to rule is a pretty long-winded cliche in fantasy. Why would they need to cover it up? It doesn't seem like there's any political strife with some other loud party here, although I guess that was what the prime minister was meant to represent with his speech to and adulation from the guilds people. I continue to really like Galadriel, and like someone else said, she's spent the last 100 years hunting Sauron and giving orders to soldiers sworn to obey them. Now having to bargain and negotiate are foreign to her. She can't be the same person she is in LOTR or the Hobbit because that would be boring.
And a word of warning - no Harfoots in this episode probably means 35 minutes of them next week.
House of the Dragon has now exceeded this show for me, but it's still fun to watch and I look forward to the next episode.
Everything Dwarfish - Elrond being able to hear them talking from a staggering distance, the reveal of the Mithril - I had just explained what it was to my daughter and she responded like I was a GD genius lol - the ceremony to try and help the trapped dwarves escape was cool, you totally thought that was a funeral dirge, and the very impressive way that you saw the guy playing Elrond immediately go back on his oath (in his head at least) when he saw the substance. I think that's a pretty good interpretation of the Elves' rationalization of most things, that sort of "Yes, but... we know best, so we're doing it this way." I got a real vibe of the way the hot Vulcan girl acted on Star Trek: Enterprise, where she was there to advise the humans as they went into space, but had about 90 other plans from Vulcan High Command going on. Also the little nod to Durin's dad being really cautious about how deep they mine.
Everything Arondir - Easily my favorite character. Really portrays the fear and unrest and confusion of what/who/why Arda is. Great action scene again when he catches the arrow in mid-air. It's tough to have an Elf od something that Legolas didn't do across 5 movies, but that was sweet.
Episode 4 Dislikes
Most of what happened in Numeanor - the people there are the most highly cultured humans around, but they flip flop on their opinion from anti-elf to elf-tolerant to we must help our beloved elf friends in the course of what, 18 hours?
I couldn't remember who Isildur's sister was until she sat down at the table with him. I'm sure her little flirt flirt with the prime minister's son will be important later, but it was kinda flat. Isildur might have just said "Hey I don't want to be a sea guard" instead of getting 2 of his friends screwed over. But I guess that got all 3 of them into the navy together. Could have been a great closing shot to have the Village People's "In the Navy" playing over their war prep.
The Old King being too sick to rule is a pretty long-winded cliche in fantasy. Why would they need to cover it up? It doesn't seem like there's any political strife with some other loud party here, although I guess that was what the prime minister was meant to represent with his speech to and adulation from the guilds people. I continue to really like Galadriel, and like someone else said, she's spent the last 100 years hunting Sauron and giving orders to soldiers sworn to obey them. Now having to bargain and negotiate are foreign to her. She can't be the same person she is in LOTR or the Hobbit because that would be boring.
And a word of warning - no Harfoots in this episode probably means 35 minutes of them next week.
House of the Dragon has now exceeded this show for me, but it's still fun to watch and I look forward to the next episode.
Life is better with a beagle
Dumb but I chuckled...
My tinfoil theory, based solely on the placement of the scar tissue...
I know everyone wants to connect characters across time and properties...but going from revered as God-like to run of the mill army sergeant seems like quite the downfall.
I feel like once we get farther into the story, we'll see that this guy is just revered among this particular sect of Orcs because he was the first of them. I bet there's other pockets of orcs with their own God-like figures.
Maybe so...though I guess I was under the impression that all the remaining orcs since the war with Morgoth had been collecting in the area that will become Mordor.
Same actor who played Benjen Stark, who *also* ended up having weird skin issues.
His auditions must include "how do you feel about prosthetic scars so your actual face is always distorted?"
I didn't even recognize him as the same actor, at first.
I didn't even recognize him as the same actor, at first.
well now there has to be a scene between him and Elrond. With winks and nods.TCTTS said:
Same actor who played Benjen Stark, who *also* ended up having weird skin issues.
Life is better with a beagle
"Your army of orcs would do well to prepare, because the armies of Numenor have mobilized...and winter is coming."
Not to bag on the episode, but Theo's "escape" from the Orcs was kinda awful. You've been in the well for hours, now you're going to jump up and run around when there are 20 of them within 100 feet of you?
Life is better with a beagle
He's kind of a dumbass. He's the Wesley Crusher of Middle Earth.
We needed a reason for Arondir to have a cool save.The Porkchop Express said:
Not to bag on the episode, but Theo's "escape" from the Orcs was kinda awful. You've been in the well for hours, now you're going to jump up and run around when there are 20 of them within 100 feet of you?
Although, why did Adar give him his weapons?
Plot convenience! Gawd...redline248 said:We needed a reason for Arondir to have a cool save.The Porkchop Express said:
Not to bag on the episode, but Theo's "escape" from the Orcs was kinda awful. You've been in the well for hours, now you're going to jump up and run around when there are 20 of them within 100 feet of you?
Although, why did Adar give him his weapons?
That can be explained I think. Personally, I think he had got to the point where he needed to move out whenever there was a gap. Probably realized he couldn't just wait it out there for them to move on. Hard to tell when the best gap is from a well 20 feet below ground.
I think it was more the way it was shot than his decision that bothered me. He's like 5 feet from an Orc over and over. And waits like 1 second after they turn their backs to take off running.
Life is better with a beagle
When he's guarding mother and son through the forest and shooting the orcs, my daughter, who just saw LOTR for the first time earlier this year, said, "Legolas would have killed all these guys by now."redline248 said:We needed a reason for Arondir to have a cool save.The Porkchop Express said:
Not to bag on the episode, but Theo's "escape" from the Orcs was kinda awful. You've been in the well for hours, now you're going to jump up and run around when there are 20 of them within 100 feet of you?
Although, why did Adar give him his weapons?
Life is better with a beagle
The Porkchop Express said:
I think it was more the way it was shot than his decision that bothered me. He's like 5 feet from an Orc over and over. And waits like 1 second after they turn their backs to take off running.
It felt like it was taken straight from a video game.
Legolas was probably never malnourished and sleep deprived in the whole trilogy, though.
It's not like the orcs gave him lembas bread before he left
It's not like the orcs gave him lembas bread before he left
I had the same thought. I half expected to see exclamation points pop up over the heads of the orcs when he was out of cover.Madmarttigan said:The Porkchop Express said:
I think it was more the way it was shot than his decision that bothered me. He's like 5 feet from an Orc over and over. And waits like 1 second after they turn their backs to take off running.
It felt like it was taken straight from a video game.
The Porkchop Express said:
Not to bag on the episode, but Theo's "escape" from the Orcs was kinda awful. You've been in the well for hours, now you're going to jump up and run around when there are 20 of them within 100 feet of you?
Still not as bad as the forest chase in Obi-Wan.
His whole escape, imo, was greatly influenced by 1917 (or an attempt to imitate it)
From the the lighting to the long 'one shot' aspect of it
I just dislike that character and actor
From the the lighting to the long 'one shot' aspect of it
I just dislike that character and actor
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