An extreme Carrrington event might be almost as bad.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrington_Event

You better have all those agreements and plans in place now. Trying to do it after the fact is going to be nearly impossible.

The biggest immediate issue for most will be water, then meds. During the freeze I was the only one with available water for my family as we shut and drained lines to avoid ruptures. I keep 30g in a tank for home brewing. That still wouldn't have been a huge issue as we could have found someone with a working well.

Didn't shower for 3 days then took a hoors bath using water from rain barrels. A minor inconvenience but a real wakeup on how dependent we are on infrastructure.

Same with power. I do have a big battery backup that's solar and in a Faraday cage, but its for maybe small consumption at 1500 watts. And a gas generator with 40g gas on hand to limp through 2-3 weeks for a natural disaster.

But in this scenario, a loud generator is going to attract attention you do not want. 95% of city dwellers are FUBAR, including me.

The Fife said:

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There's a good two or three of us in the neighborhood whose cars would still work after an EMP, so there's that anyway.

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I have one vehicle that will work, but a CJ-7 with no hard cover will make me a sitting duck.

AlaskanAg99 said:

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But in this scenario, a loud generator is going to attract attention you do not want. 95% of city dwellers are FUBAR, including me.

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this is very true

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Rural homes located 100 miles from nowhere will be susceptible. Yes, you're far away enough to withstand most of the carnage in the cities because people forced to walk will be weakened by dehydration/starvation/fatigue by the time they come near you

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How long do you think the average American family, field testing their survival skills walking over un-even terrain with hostiles around every corner the peak of winter or summer, will last on the road making their way towards the "country"?

Wife: "We've got to get to the country. They've got food"
Father: OK, let's do this.
Wife: What's the plan?
Father: I don't know, I've never been camping.......

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Ordinary people can walk 23 miles per hour,if we use the average speed, it will be 2.5 miles/hour, 100 miles will take 40 hour, if you can walk 8 hours/day, I would say it will take up to 5 days to complete the journey if you are not sick or bored during the time.

Walking such a long distance over several days is more realistic and advisable. If you plan to walk 100 miles over a few days, a reasonable daily distance to cover might be 15 to 20 miles per day, depending on your fitness level and the terrain you're walking on. At this pace, it could take you 5 to 7 days to complete 100 miles journey.

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I have one vehicle that will work, but a CJ-7

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You think it will work......until it does Jeep things and doesn't.

If you have a vehicle running your first issue is fuel.
2nd issue will be the thousands of 1/2 ton road blocks of vehicles that stopped in place.

And each of those vehicles may be an ambush waiting to happen.

If you're walking for 5-7 days you have to pack everything you need. I clouding water, which is heavy and bulky and probably not available as you walk. So I hope you're pulling a rickshaw. That will murder your daily progress. Mote so if you have kids, pets and all the supplies you'll need for them.

Some communities will be able to band together if they're high enough, are defensible enough and are the source of clean headwaters. But that imposes another set of issues they have to face such as energy, food, heat etc...

12 Leftist Idiots supporting the Hamas terrorists are bringing traffic on the entire island of Manhattan to a standstill. imagine what happens when millions start starving...

The reason they do these things in NYC and LA is because they know authorities in those cities will allow them to terrorize people with few consequences. https://t.co/IRrp8VBUB0

— AG (@AGHamilton29) January 8, 2024

LMCane said:

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12 Leftist Idiots supporting the Hamas terrorists are bringing traffic on the entire island of Manhattan to a standstill. imagine what happens when millions start starving...

The reason they do these things in NYC and LA is because they know authorities in those cities will allow them to terrorize people with few consequences. https://t.co/IRrp8VBUB0

— AG (@AGHamilton29) January 8, 2024

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In a survival scenario, do you really think people are going to stop just because some ****waffles are blocking the road?

No.

At that point, Darwin takes over.

Bad comparison.

CDUB98 said:

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In a survival scenario, do you really think people are going to stop just because some ****waffles are blocking the road?

No.

At that point, Darwin takes over.

Bad comparison.

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The only valid comparison is that there are only a few ways in/out of New York. Some people in the road won't stop traffic.

A couple of wrecks?

Yes.

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The only valid comparison is that there are only a few ways in/out of New York. Some people in the road won't stop traffic.

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If they were truly dedicated they would block trains and go GreenPeace on the ferries with their own ships

My wife an I talk about this regularly. Been through multiple hurricanes, big freeze, etc. and did pretty well but those were short lived.

She keeps saying we can get out to the country but it's just not doable. We aren't in best of shape, don't have great hiking gear, and have two kids that can barely handle a 3 mile easy hike without complaining. No way we are getting far with supplies needed. The ranch is 160 miles as the crow flies but likely 200 miles on foot zig-zagging to avoid people, obstacles, finding water, etc. That's at least two weeks walking. Then no guarantee the place hasn't been overrun already by people in the area or escaping the closest city, which is about 20 miles away. So walk two weeks to get in a fire-fight while hungry and exhausted with people "squatting" and probably better rested.

I've resigned myself to stay put and fortify with a month worth of food and water, survival supplies, guns, and ammo, like-minded friends in the area, and just kill as many people as needed until the end. Might last 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months, 2 years, who knows. Thankfully no major medical issues that require daily meds but wife's crappy vision, pretty much blind without glasses, will become a problem once contacts run out and glasses inevitably get broken or lost. I keep telling her to buy a bunch of cheap prescription glasses to have everywhere.

fixer said:

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If grid is down it really doesn't matter what car you have. I'm a big fan of old school carburetor trucks...but there is a whole lot more to cause issues than just electronics.

The gas stations won't be able to pump. If one happens to be open and selling with cash or barter, then it will be some manual pump with alot of people standing around. A total ****show. you are getting blasted from a vapor cloud explosion or someone is gonna rob you.

Even then the distribution will be down. Transport trucks and pipeline pumps are down.

Past that refineries will be down.

If you keep your car/truck filled up you might be able to snag a couple of jerry cans of gas but that is it. it is a one shot deal. If you are brazen you can rob gas form stuck cars...

That is the one thing I didn't like about One Second After, they drove that dang old Ford around and around and I don't recall how they ever kept it fueled.

I've decided that physical fitness and a damn good mountain bike with abundant spare parts is the best bet.

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I agree and I think if the car is still running you have ONE shot within a few hours to get out of dodge to where you want to be

in the Maryland area, I would want to drive to Hilton Head Island in one sitting. although that means having to refill at least once.

West Virginia is right here, but seems very hard to know where to find a place that is not surrounded by others.

CanyonAg77 said:

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CDUB98 said:

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In a survival scenario, do you really think people are going to stop just because some ****waffles are blocking the road?

No.

At that point, Darwin takes over.

Bad comparison.

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The only valid comparison is that there are only a few ways in/out of New York. Some people in the road won't stop traffic.

A couple of wrecks?

Yes.

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my point isn't whether it's possible to get into Manhattan or not get into Manhattan when the SHTF.

my point is that EVEN IN PEACETIME with a fully functioning society, we have lawlessness and chaos that is not even stopped by the police.

my point is that if a few dozen Hamas supporters can bring NYC to a standstill TODAY,

what happens when there are not a dozen or two dozen but hundreds of thousands of desperate idiots roaming around?...

A huge amount of food will be wasted to spoilage if deep freezers go offline. Theres no reasonable way to preserve food that fast, especially if in the summer months. You'd have to cook and eat as much as you can as fast as you can.

Also you'd have a progressively worse sanitation problem that goes with rotting meat, namely insects and varmints. Now you multiply that over an entire neighborhood. Walk ins at stores and restaurants would be full of rancid meat.

If you had a generator you'd have to decide whether the fuel burned to run the deep freeze or fuel burned to try and preserve food would be worth it long term.

Also think you'd see a lot of fires get out of control caused by people trying to start a fire, and cook over a fire for the first time. Somebody trying to boil water on their back porch sets the whole neighborhood on fire. People trying to use lanterns and so forth causing fires. People running heaters and generators indoors and succumbing to carbon monoxide poisoning. Smoke from outdoor fires and generators running in densely populated areas with people burning anything they can find. That alone might be chaos.

You could be as fortified as possible in your own house but still be reliant on your neighbors not burning the neighborhood down during a windstorm or starting a wildfire.

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You'd have to cook and eat as much as you can as fast as you can.

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aggiehawg said:

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The only valid comparison is that there are only a few ways in/out of New York. Some people in the road won't stop traffic.

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If they were truly dedicated they would block trains and go GreenPeace on the ferries with their own ships

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"In that moment, I was a marine biologist."

GCRanger said:

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My wife an I talk about this regularly. Been through multiple hurricanes, big freeze, etc. and did pretty well but those were short lived.

She keeps saying we can get out to the country but it's just not doable. We aren't in best of shape, don't have great hiking gear, and have two kids that can barely handle a 3 mile easy hike without complaining. No way we are getting far with supplies needed. The ranch is 160 miles as the crow flies but likely 200 miles on foot zig-zagging to avoid people, obstacles, finding water, etc. That's at least two weeks walking. Then no guarantee the place hasn't been overrun already by people in the area or escaping the closest city, which is about 20 miles away. So walk two weeks to get in a fire-fight while hungry and exhausted with people "squatting" and probably better rested.

I've resigned myself to stay put and fortify with a month worth of food and water, survival supplies, guns, and ammo, like-minded friends in the area, and just kill as many people as needed until the end. Might last 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months, 2 years, who knows. Thankfully no major medical issues that require daily meds but wife's crappy vision, pretty much blind without glasses, will become a problem once contacts run out and glasses inevitably get broken or lost. I keep telling her to buy a bunch of cheap prescription glasses to have everywhere.

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Your best option is to bug-in until the two weeks/two months pass (it takes 72 hours for society to collapse, I think most people will die in the first two weeks), then when your kids have adjusted to the life/death nature of their new reality, then begin making your trek to your bugout location.

Hoyt Ag said:

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Or do you stay put and fortify your house?

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Looters will find you soon enough and root you out one way or another. You may have guns and ammo, but that wont last forever.

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Easiest solution for looters is to take shifts. You maybe armed to the teeth with guns and ammo, but can you stop me from burning down that fortified house of yours at all hours of the day? You'll have to sleep at some point.

EMP attacks do have a geograpically limited effects.

Hurricanes and tornados take out electricity in areas, too. But relief can still come in from other areas not affected.

The most disturbing part of an EMP / CME situation is you'd have no way of knowing how widespread the problem was.

With all telecommunications and data knocked out you'd be reliant on word of mouth whether it was countywide, state, regional or even national.

We'd have no way of getting information outside of word of mouth and even that would be of questionable veracity.

'I heard they had power 250 miles north' but how would you know and how would you make the decision to travel somewhere better based on unreliable information.

Traveling anywhere outside your immediate area would have to be done out of desperation.

I just need to work on my speaking voice:

There has been too much violence. Too much pain. None here are without sin. But I have an honorable compromise. Just walk away. Give me your pump, the oil, the gasoline, and the whole compound, and I'll spare your lives. Just walk away. I will give you safe passage in the wasteland. Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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A huge amount of food will be wasted to spoilage if deep freezers go offline. Theres no reasonable way to preserve food that fast, especially if in the summer months. You'd have to cook and eat as much as you can as fast as you can.

Also you'd have a progressively worse sanitation problem that goes with rotting meat, namely insects and varmints. Now you multiply that over an entire neighborhood. Walk ins at stores and restaurants would be full of rancid meat.

If you had a generator you'd have to decide whether the fuel burned to run the deep freeze or fuel burned to try and preserve food would be worth it long term.

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You can preserve meat long-term by salting it, but I doubt people will be quick thinking enough for this to happen.

Sethtevious said:

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People who think you can move to a rural area and avoid the cities while society collapses are naive. As they point out in One Second After, everyone thinks rural areas have an abundance of food. People in cities will begin traveling to rural areas and plunder everything they find. In the book, the town has to band together to defend against outsiders, which is what will happen, small towns becoming virtual city-states.

Rural homes located 100 miles from nowhere will be susceptible. Yes, you're far away enough to withstand most of the carnage in the cities because people forced to walk will be weakened by dehydration/starvation/fatigue by the time they come near you. But what about hundreds of people attacking your house? If you live on a farm, what about people who strip your crops for any hope of nourishment. Do you have a plan to turn your farm into a compound? Do you have friends willing to man the walls armed, to ensure you survive? Do your friends like you enough to follow your leadership? Think any of your friends would depose you?

What do you do when hundreds and hundreds of people, half-mad with starvation, attack? You can say 'shoot them', but they keep coming. What do you do with attackers who lack a self-preservation instinct because dying is a relief when compared to starvation?

These uber-wealthy who announce their 5000 ft bunkers, like Zuckerberg, are idiots. All anyone needs to do is map out their locations and they're the first places that people will attack in a SHTF event. Anyone think the staff/employees/workers for those people will risk their lives to protect their bunker?

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I think what this post is not taking into account is that just like in the series "Jericho" the small towns and local communities ARE going to band together.

a lot more effectively than anyone else. they will have local police, volunteer fire fighters, likely some National Guard troops and their own weapons. they will quickly set up roadblocks on the main roads and they know the terrain better than any roving bands of plunderers.

also, there WILL be US military forces that are still in existence. I should write a book about this, but the most likely allies of the US military who stay in the cadres will be these small towns who link up and offer hosting to small detachments of Federal forces to protect their small towns in exchange for food and shelter.

which is why even though I got out of the USAF Reserves 10 years ago, I keep my uniforms and equipment so that I have a chance at getting in and linking up with these local townies.

This is pretty much what would begin to happen:

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This is pretty much what would begin to happen:

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Was that show any good?

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Your best option is to bug-in until the two weeks/two months pass (it takes 72 hours for society to collapse, I think most people will die in the first two weeks), then when your kids have adjusted to the life/death nature of their new reality, then begin making your trek to your bugout location.

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If we get EMP'ed, traffic is going to suck everywhere.

Survive the first 90 days at home with friends and family.

The rest will take care of itself.

Bregxit said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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The most disturbing part of an EMP / CME situation is you'd have no way of knowing how widespread the problem was.

With all telecommunications and data knocked out you'd be reliant on word of mouth whether it was countywide, state, regional or even national.

We'd have no way of getting information outside of word of mouth and even that would be of questionable veracity.

'I heard they had power 250 miles north' but how would you know and how would you make the decision to travel somewhere better based on unreliable information.

Traveling anywhere outside your immediate area would have to be done out of desperation.

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Ham radio would become very popular again.

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Only among those who already have them.

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• Intense pulse or surge of long wavelength radiofrequency electromagnetic radiation produced when an explosion occurs near the earth's surface or at high altitudes
• Occurs at the instant of the detonation of an IND and ends within a few seconds
• The EMP phenomenon is a major effect for large bursts at very high altitude, but it is not well understood how it radiates outward from a ground level burst and to what degree it will damage the electronic systems that permeate modern society.
• Although experts have not achieved consensus on expected impacts, generally they believe that the most severe consequence of the pulse would not travel beyond about 2 miles (3.2 km) to 5 miles (8 km) from a ground level 10 KT IND detonation.
• Because the extent of the EMP damage to communications and electronics is expected to occur relatively close to ground zero, other infrastructure effects of the explosion (such as blast destruction) are expected to dominate over the EMP effect.
• Another EMP phenomenon called "source-region EMP" may lead to conductance of electricity through conducting materials (e.g., pipes and wires) and could cause damage much farther away, but this subject requires further research and analysis.
• Equipment brought in from unaffected areas should function normally if communications towers and repeaters remain functioning, but these towers and repeaters may have be severely affected by the blast and be offline for that reason.

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LINK

Sarge 91 said:

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Bregxit said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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The most disturbing part of an EMP / CME situation is you'd have no way of knowing how widespread the problem was.

With all telecommunications and data knocked out you'd be reliant on word of mouth whether it was countywide, state, regional or even national.

We'd have no way of getting information outside of word of mouth and even that would be of questionable veracity.

'I heard they had power 250 miles north' but how would you know and how would you make the decision to travel somewhere better based on unreliable information.

Traveling anywhere outside your immediate area would have to be done out of desperation.

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Ham radio would become very popular again.

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Only among those who already have them.

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And are faraday protected at the time of the event.

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• Another EMP phenomenon called "source-region EMP" may lead to conductance of electricity through conducting materials (e.g., pipes and wires) and could cause damage much farther away, but this subject requires further research and analysis.

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This happened during the 1859 Carrington event when people were communicating via telegraphs that weren't even connected to a power source.

I'm liking my chances at a bay house. Wife tells me I've got enough fishing lures so why buy more?!