This is why I love Rocky. Truth. Truth is his greatness. Love you bud.

Supreme Court case incoming if Trump moves to invalidate the auto pen pardons.

The tricky question on the pardons will be one of standing now, won't it? First off, who has standing to challenge the Fauci's pardon? And if there is a legal question on whether the pardon is legal, why wouldn't he still have 5th amendment protections against self incrimination?

There's not necessarily anything tricky about "standing". The department of justice could challenge it.

Indict Fauci, then when he moves to dismiss the case they would argue it's not valid because done by autopen.

The tricky part is what standards are used to determine the validity. A pardon does not have to be signed or in writing under the constitution. "Did Biden pardon him, or did someone else" is not the only question, but also how can that be shown and under what burdens of proof.

I don't think we ever get an answer as he won't be indicted

Pinochet said:

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The tricky question on the pardons will be one of standing now, won't it? First off, who has standing to challenge the Fauci's pardon? And if there is a legal question on whether the pardon is legal, why wouldn't he still have 5th amendment protections against self incrimination?

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He should have 5th amendment rights, and anything he's said while under a false impression of pardon protections could be excluded. The "standing" shouldn't be tricky: just charge em and let them hold up their forged pardon as a defense. Then run THAT up until it hits the Supreme Court and they get to chew on whether a forgery of the president's signature coming from his staff counts as valid. If they rule correctly that forgeries are not valid, then the case can proceed.

Get Off My Lawn said:

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Pinochet said:

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The tricky question on the pardons will be one of standing now, won't it? First off, who has standing to challenge the Fauci's pardon? And if there is a legal question on whether the pardon is legal, why wouldn't he still have 5th amendment protections against self incrimination?

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He should have 5th amendment rights, and anything he's said while under a false impression of pardon protections could be excluded. The "standing" shouldn't be tricky: just charge em and let them hold up their forged pardon as a defense. Then run THAT up until it hits the Supreme Court and they get to chew on whether a forgery of the president's signature coming from his staff counts as valid. If they rule correctly that forgeries are not valid, then the case can proceed.

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I am at the point with Fauci and some of the others that I don't want to fight about the validity of the pardons because that will give them cover to plead the 5th. I want them to have to testify under oath about what they did without the cover of the 5th, but with the penalty of lying to congress hanging over their head. I want to hear directly from Fauci about whose idea the whole thing was and when they decided to weaponize a flu to influence an election. I want to hear him say out loud why he worked with other scientists to take down anybody who brought up the possibility of a lab leak or who put forth info about alternate treatments that worked against Covid. And when he tries to lie about those things, I want him thrown in jail for lying to congress.

That NYT article was meant to provide cover for Biden, but it has raised more question than it answered!

In a fair world he'd have swung from a tree several years ago.
In a good world he'd be charged, stripped of an invalid pardon, and jailed for the rest of his life.
In a pragmatic world he'd skirt by with a "could be valid, let's establish requirements for future presidents" SCOTUS cop out and then congressional drilling as you frame up.
In the current world… he probably keeps living large before cancering up on his 90s.

txags92 said:

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My opinion only, but all documents of consequence that either commit the US to anything or direct agencies or departments of the government to do or not do anything should be signed in ink by the president's hand. Period. Let them use the autopen for the christmas card list. For pardens, legislative bills, exec orders, etc, I want it signed by hand, in ink, and I want it videoed.

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Hell, the average citizen has to have their signature notarized for the really important documents, but not the POTUS?

I say we bring back the seal and wax....a special seal is made for each respective POTUS, and anything important has to have that seal in wax next to the signature.

Tramp96 said:

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txags92 said:

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My opinion only, but all documents of consequence that either commit the US to anything or direct agencies or departments of the government to do or not do anything should be signed in ink by the president's hand. Period. Let them use the autopen for the christmas card list. For pardens, legislative bills, exec orders, etc, I want it signed by hand, in ink, and I want it videoed.

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Hell, the average citizen has to have their signature notarized for the really important documents, but not the POTUS?

I say we bring back the seal and wax....a special seal is made for each respective POTUS, and anything important has to have that seal in wax next to the signature.

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again that can be faked or used by somebody else just as easy as an autopen

BQ_90 said:

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Tramp96 said:

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txags92 said:

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My opinion only, but all documents of consequence that either commit the US to anything or direct agencies or departments of the government to do or not do anything should be signed in ink by the president's hand. Period. Let them use the autopen for the christmas card list. For pardens, legislative bills, exec orders, etc, I want it signed by hand, in ink, and I want it videoed.

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Hell, the average citizen has to have their signature notarized for the really important documents, but not the POTUS?

I say we bring back the seal and wax....a special seal is made for each respective POTUS, and anything important has to have that seal in wax next to the signature.

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again that can be faked or used by somebody else just as easy as an autopen

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That is why I want a video of every signing by hand with the president showing what they are signing, stating what they are signing, and then a hand written signature in ink by his hand. Although these days AI can fake that as well.

Pinochet said:

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The tricky question on the pardons will be one of standing now, won't it? First off, who has standing to challenge the Fauci's pardon? And if there is a legal question on whether the pardon is legal, why wouldn't he still have 5th amendment protections against self incrimination?

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it would be the opposite.

Trump's DOJ will act is there was NO ORIGINAL PARDON and bring charges against Fauci

then Fauci would sue claiming he did have a pardon.

then the SCOTUS will have to make final decision.

Fauci would not have to sue anyone. What are you talking about??

White House joins in!

White House investigating Biden use of autopen in sprawling probe of ‘incompetent and senile’ former president https://t.co/wdwZpu4cva

— RedState (@BordersUSA) July 15, 2025

Quote:

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As exclusively reported by Daily Wire on Wednesday, Republican Rep. Addison McDowell (NC) is introducing a bill, ingeniously titled the "Ban on Inkless Directives and Executive Notarizations Act of 2025 (BIDEN) Act" that would amend Title 3 of the U.S. Code to prevent a president from using an autopen or other such a device for signing bills, executive orders, pardons, and commutations of prison sentences.

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LINK

https://www.dailyfetched.com/nbc-reporter-roasted-after-biden-autopen-defense-backfires-spectacularly-watch/

Quote:

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NBC News found itself in hot water after broadcasting a story which appeared to divert scrutiny away from former President Joe Biden and his use of the autopen.

However, the effort did the opposite and backfired - highlighting the network's perceived hypocrisy.

NBC attempted to "expose" Rep. James Comer (R-KY) for allegedly digitally signing letters and subpoenas, although this is a common practice in most offices.

Anchors Ryan Nobles and Melanie Zanona, who delivered the segment, attempted to create a "both sides" narrative concerning the use of the autopen.

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Annie Tomasini, former Assistant to the President and Deputy Director of Oval Office Operations COME ON DOWN!

🚨🚨🚨
 
The third witness in our investigation into the cover-up of President Biden’s cognitive decline and unauthorized executive actions pleaded the Fifth Amendment today. There is now a pattern of key Biden confidants seeking to shield themselves from criminal liability for…

— Rep. James Comer (@RepJamesComer) July 18, 2025

For you folks who have admitted to us you are liberals, is all of this ok?

Do you find it at least a little concerning that none of these people will talk?

Should unelected people be able to run our country as long as they are on your side?

Breaking: White House Counsel raises red flags on legality of Biden pardons, urges DOJ and Congress to probe https://t.co/OZzeroMYik

— Just the News (@JustTheNews) September 6, 2025

"Urges"


If only the White House Counsel knew someone that could " order" the Department of Justice to probe the legality and something!!

I think the "urging" is more addressed to Congress than to DOJ. DOJ can issue an advisory opinion from OLC at anytime they so choose. But as I have said before, this is uncharted territory so will require a lot of research and reading of tea leaves to reach a position on the legality and circumstances required for assessing that legality.

Some historical research going back to Woodrow Wilson, methinks. Did Edith issue any pardons under Woodrow's name?

DoJ can also charge people with crimes. Raise the legitimacy of the pardons in court cases.

Unless there was quid pro quo involved, then I would say that the Biden staffers and the Biden family got away with their corruption.

Im Gipper said:

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DoJ can also charge people with crimes. Raise the legitimacy of the pardons in court cases.

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Yes they can, of course but I think they would want an advisory opinion to help with those decisions to prosecute since these are going to be so fact specific.

BMX Bandit said:

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There's not necessarily anything tricky about "standing". The department of justice could challenge it.

Indict Fauci, then when he moves to dismiss the case they would argue it's not valid because done by autopen.

The tricky part is what standards are used to determine the validity. A pardon does not have to be signed or in writing under the constitution. "Did Biden pardon him, or did someone else" is not the only question, but also how can that be shown and under what burdens of proof.

I don't think we ever get an answer as he won't be indicted

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IANAL
Would be possible for Congress to pass a law requiring proof of Presidential hand written signatures on all government documents including pardons?
With advances in AI, video evidence becomes questionable, maybe signatures must be witnessed by opposition party members and federal judges.

doubledog said:

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Unless there was quid pro quo involved, then I would say that the Biden staffers and the Biden family got away with their corruption.

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And that's the elephant in the room. Bribery. Bribery would also explain why the 5th is being invoked, no?

Bribery is ALWAYS on the table with Famiglia Biden

Im Gipper said:

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Bribery is ALWAYS on the table with Famiglia Biden

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True but I was also thinking of bribes going to the people controlling the autopen.

If these pardons unravel, who are the top people we would want to see charged? Fauci, InfectionAg, Hunter, who else?

CactusThomas said:

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If these pardons unravel, who are the top people we would want to see charged? Fauci, InfectionAg, Hunter, who else?

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Schiff and the Jan 6th Committee.