As far as my little to none research, just assumptions…

Main argument is that they will go to families who don't need it. Why spend more money giving vouchers to people are already go to private school?

Because you have to be accepted to private schools, minorities can still face discrimination. They won't be able to use the vouchers if they can't get into the school in the first place.

Ideally parents have a choice and funding follows the student.

The problem is about 350,000 students in Texas currently attend private school. The average funding per student at public schools is $15k.

That means education funding would need to increase by about $5.5B annually in order to fund every student equally regardless of whether they attend school at their ISD or somewhere else. Anything else would reduce public schools funding because of the existing "subsidy" of the 350k private school students who currently cost the state nothing.

29 states have some form of school choice program. Just pick a plan and get with it. Model it after Florida.

m-walker said:

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As far as my little to none research, just assumptions…

Main argument is that they will go to families who don't need it. Why spend more money giving vouchers to people are already go to private school?

Because you have to be accepted to private schools, minorities can still face discrimination. They won't be able to use the vouchers if they can't get into the school in the first place.

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Yeah not so much.

m-walker said:

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As far as my little to none research, just assumptions…

Main argument is that they will go to families who don't need it. Why spend more money giving vouchers to people are already go to private school?

Because you have to be accepted to private schools, minorities can still face discrimination. They won't be able to use the vouchers if they can't get into the school in the first place.

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This ain't the 1960's.

Virtually noone who is a minority is getting turned down because of skin color.

Vouchers should be for everyone. You shouldn't have to apply.

I just thought it was going to allow students to do private, switch districts, or better able to home school. Like the money would move with you depending on your choice. I'm not sure why that's a hard concept to put to a bill. If my student isn't going to public school, then my school tax should come back to me. They wouldn't be a burden to the district, so there's really no money lost.

m-walker said:

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Because you have to be accepted to private schools, minorities can still face discrimination. They won't be able to use the vouchers if they can't get into the school in the first place.

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A minority student who is motivated, with a parent who is motivated to send them to a private school, will not be discriminated against.

Blacks in Florida:

Actual results over fear mongering

https://www.the74million.org/article/analysis-black-student-enrollment-is-up-in-florida-schools-of-choice-so-is-academic-achievement/

What a ridiculous argument anyway - "if we give them choice, they will be discriminated against anyway. So let's just keep them locked up in crappy schools."

Conservatives/Libertarians oppose it because it introduces government control to private schools. State funding, like vouchers, are a direct way to tie gov preferences to the private sector.

Every teacher or retired teacher I know throws their head back and screams REEEEEEEEEE any time the word voucher is used in a sentence, and starts screeching pre-made talking points about discrimination only benefiting the rich.

And the woker they are, the louder the scream.

So I guess vouchers must be a good thing.

FCBlitz said:

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Small town Republicans are against vouchers because it reduces the amounts of contracts that be issued in these lightly populated counties.

Vouchers will never pass because of this.

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WRONG

Small town RINO reps are! The polls show the constituents want vouchers!

I understand the thought, but by the same token then you are also arguing that anyone without a school age kid should not have to pay school taxes, right?

I detest what has happened in public schools since the early 70's. But, unfortunatelly I feel all of society is on the hook for education, up to grade 12. Which is why I am pretty on-board for vouchers for home schooling.

But, for everyone who is against govt being involved in home schooling, tell me how we prevent a large number of the worst parents "home schooling" their kids with no intent to educate, just to collect the voucher, and amazingly leaving those kids actually worse off than if they went to the generally crappy public schools?

And I mean no disrespect for the public teachers who to try to make a diiference; I just believe that the environment is so bad now that in most schools it is an impossible task. I taught public high school 4 years, btw.

Quote:

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tell me how we prevent a large number of the worst parents "home schooling" their kids with no intent to educate, just to collect the voucher, and amazingly leaving those kids actually worse off than if they went to the generally crappy public schools?

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As the great Thomas Sowell said, "There are no solutions, only trade offs."

Trying to create a system to the lowest common denominator might seem "more caring", but it always comes at the expense of others.

And unfortunately nothing the government does can undo the damage done by derelict parents.

Im Gipper said:

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FCBlitz said:

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Small town Republicans are against vouchers because it reduces the amounts of contracts that be issued in these lightly populated counties.

Vouchers will never pass because of this.

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WRONG

Small town RINO reps are! The polls show the constituents want vouchers!

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I'm rural. I don't want vouchers

I'm a 20+ year public educator who is pro-school vouchers as long as we start allowing public schools to operate similarly to charter and private schools.

If we don't want to, we don't offer special education services. If we want to, we can kick out any kid. If we don't want to, we don't use standardized tests. If we're going to allow some parents to decide if they are happy with their educational choices without state interference, all parents should have that choice. Public schools choose what they teach, not the state.

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You can be unhappy with public education but you are getting what you pay for.

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That would be quite the argument if funding were the problem.

SouthTex99 said:

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Texas is 38th in the country per pupil funding for public education. Funding vouchers for private schools will make it worse.

You can be unhappy with public education but you are getting what you pay for.

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That's B.S. Public Education has not returned near the level of its costs since at least the creation of the Dept of Education.

How school funding currently works:

A long time ago, it was written into the Texas Constitution that ISD property taxes could only fund education.

John pays property taxes, the ISD portion is average $6k-$7k. The ISD collects property taxes from everyone in their district boundaries. Then the state has a calculation that is Property Tax Revenue/Weighted Average Daily Attendance. If this revenue is too high, the ISD sends back a portion to the state. This portion goes into the Foundation School Program fund. If this revenue is too low, the state sends back a portion of the Foundation School Program fund to the ISD.

In addition to property taxes, state lottery, state general fund, federal dollars, and local bonds all make up education funding. Most districts spends about $9,000/per student. $6,160 of that is the basic allotment for 100% perfect attendance and comes from the property taxes. The districts that quote $14k-$16k per student are usually including bonds and federal free lunch dollars. Both bonds and federal free lunch dollars have very specific things they can be spent on.

Currently, the state has cut its contributions from state lottery and state general fund because the property taxes recaptured from property rich ISDs is very high and daily attendance has been lower during and after COVID. So the state has grown its surplus over the past 5 years on the backs of education.

Right now, what's draining money out of the Foundation School Program fund is charter schools. They are only given the basic allotment of $6,160 and some federal dollars depending on what they offer. They don't get bonds and usually aren't eligible for other state funds. If there was no recapture, Texas probably couldn't pay for charter schools. (Now with the voucher program, I do think most charter schools would be reimagined into private schools).

Basic allotment hasn't grown since 2019, even with the addition of several bills in the last couple of sessions that come with required spending and safety upgrades. Some could be bonds, some couldn't. Teachers also want a raise to keep up with inflation and the rise in housing/groceries/utilities.

Now to vouchers - the last couple of bills have floated $10,000 per kid to go to private school or homeschool. Let's say John has 3 kids. He has paid in $6,000 to get back $30,000. $10,000 is more than most public schools get per student, especially when all $10,000 is allowed to be spent freely by the private school or homeschool. The vouchers would be paid first out of anything left in the Foundation School Program fund, then out of the surplus. When both are depleted, there is no additional funding generator. This is why there are limits to the voucher program.

If the voucher program is limited, who is receiving it? How do families know if they are going to receive it? Do you apply and get accepted by a private school, then wait to apply for the voucher, then hopefully be awarded the voucher to pay for the private school. If you are poor, are you going to jump through all those hoops for "maybe"? What if you don't get awarded the voucher and you can't afford it? Thus the ones that will apply for the vouchers and be awarded the vouchers are mostly middle class to upper class families already interested in private school.

Now let's swing back to recapture being a formula of property tax value/weighted average daily attendance. As students who attend the district drop because of vouchers, the likelihood the ISD will become a recapture paying district increases. For some rural counties, we may be only talking 25-50 students that could swing them from property poor to property rich - these are also kids who probably wouldn't go to private school but would be homeschooled.

Currently, there are no restrictions on private schools. They don't have to follow TEKS. They don't have to pass the STAAR. They don't have to hire certified teachers. They don't have to offer PE, offer Recess, offer art & music, have a cafeteria, or teach violent SPED kids. Learning disabilities need not apply. Who care about safety, there's no police officer, single entry, raptor program that the private school has to fund - these are all requirements of a public school by law.

Eventually with the vouchers, the thought is that public schools won't become more like private schools but private schools will become more like public schools as pressure for equality is put on the voucher program.

Now, I don't think vouchers are inherently evil anymore, but they need to be part of a completely overhauled system. The only proposals I've seen around vouchers deal with drawing money out of the property tax system to line pockets that it was never supposed to line. Until the state pays back all the lottery money and general fund money that it's drained from the system, I have no faith they actually want to do right by education in Texas.