Cibalo said:

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B-1 83 said:

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Cibalo said:

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Our school is a two time National Blue Ribbon award winner and ranked as one of the best pk-8 schools in Houston. I would argue the School's standards are much higher than any public elementary/junior high.

The school also serves a large group of economically disadvantaged families through scholarships, endowments, and bank partnerships.

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That's nice, and I'm glad it does. If the "Crystal City Academy" wanted to teach that the Nueces river is the true Texas border or that 2+2=5, would you be happy with tax dollars going there?

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That is far off from what some of the public schools do now. Unqualified teachers, administrators that throw good teachers under the bus, teaching CRT and DEI propaganda to brainwash children and our tax payer dollars go there now.

This bill does not do anything to improve education in Texas. I don't like it and I hope my school doesn't take any money and I don't want our government with both hands up in any schools business. Let the teachers teach and give them the ability to control the classroom on a case by case basis.

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I've not seen any instances in the country where vouchers led to government control of private schools.

Backyard Gator said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Cibalo said:

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I wrote my state Rep before the election asking him to oppose the bill and listed my reasons why. He voted for it. I wrote him another letter saying I was disappointed in his vote for the bill and again listed my reasons why I thought it was a bad bill.
Never heard anything and I probably won't. Guess I can vote to primary him out next time around if that is an option.

FTR I live in Spring Branch ISD and send my kids to private school. But my parents, brother and his wife are all public school teachers. I also worry about the state sticking their head in private school business if they accept voucher payments.

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They damn well should if they're going to be accepting tax dollars.

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Are they tax dollars? Are the government money? Or do they belong to THE PARENTS WHO PAID THEM?

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They are government tax dollars because the parents using the voucher will overwhelmingly not have paid $10K+ in ISD taxes.

And so you just want to blindly trust the government to not do it here or later in the future?

Tom Fox said:

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Backyard Gator said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Cibalo said:

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I wrote my state Rep before the election asking him to oppose the bill and listed my reasons why. He voted for it. I wrote him another letter saying I was disappointed in his vote for the bill and again listed my reasons why I thought it was a bad bill.
Never heard anything and I probably won't. Guess I can vote to primary him out next time around if that is an option.

FTR I live in Spring Branch ISD and send my kids to private school. But my parents, brother and his wife are all public school teachers. I also worry about the state sticking their head in private school business if they accept voucher payments.

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They damn well should if they're going to be accepting tax dollars.

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Are they tax dollars? Are the government money? Or do they belong to THE PARENTS WHO PAID THEM?

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They are government tax dollars because the parents using the voucher will overwhelmingly not have paid $10K+ in ISD taxes.

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The same statement can be made of those sending their kids to government schools. I don't like the bill, but why are we okay with one form of socialism but not another?

SociallyConditionedAg said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Backyard Gator said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Cibalo said:

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I wrote my state Rep before the election asking him to oppose the bill and listed my reasons why. He voted for it. I wrote him another letter saying I was disappointed in his vote for the bill and again listed my reasons why I thought it was a bad bill.
Never heard anything and I probably won't. Guess I can vote to primary him out next time around if that is an option.

FTR I live in Spring Branch ISD and send my kids to private school. But my parents, brother and his wife are all public school teachers. I also worry about the state sticking their head in private school business if they accept voucher payments.

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They damn well should if they're going to be accepting tax dollars.

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Are they tax dollars? Are the government money? Or do they belong to THE PARENTS WHO PAID THEM?

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They are government tax dollars because the parents using the voucher will overwhelmingly not have paid $10K+ in ISD taxes.

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The same statement can be made of those sending their kids to government schools. I don't like the bill, but why are we okay with one form of socialism but not another?

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Well, because one is mandated in the Texas Constitution. Texans realized the importance of an educated society and a fully funded public school system.

Once again, an issue this large should have been on the ballot. Not one person who supports vouchers has explained why it should not have been voted on directly by the people.

This is only going to increase the tuition for private schools since they know that money from the government is available. The same thing happened with college tuition because of federal student loans.

The System said:

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SociallyConditionedAg said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Backyard Gator said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Cibalo said:

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I wrote my state Rep before the election asking him to oppose the bill and listed my reasons why. He voted for it. I wrote him another letter saying I was disappointed in his vote for the bill and again listed my reasons why I thought it was a bad bill.
Never heard anything and I probably won't. Guess I can vote to primary him out next time around if that is an option.

FTR I live in Spring Branch ISD and send my kids to private school. But my parents, brother and his wife are all public school teachers. I also worry about the state sticking their head in private school business if they accept voucher payments.

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They damn well should if they're going to be accepting tax dollars.

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Are they tax dollars? Are the government money? Or do they belong to THE PARENTS WHO PAID THEM?

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They are government tax dollars because the parents using the voucher will overwhelmingly not have paid $10K+ in ISD taxes.

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The same statement can be made of those sending their kids to government schools. I don't like the bill, but why are we okay with one form of socialism but not another?

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Well, because one is mandated in the Texas Constitution. Texans realized the importance of an educated society and a fully funded public school system.

Once again, an issue this large should have been on the ballot. Not one person who supports vouchers has explained why it should not have been voted on directly by the people.

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The constitution is not a perfect document. You could argue that 'public' education has been a failure from the start, or at least since Dewey stepped in.

I agree that this voucher system is bad, and maybe even require a vote, but the socialist education system is hardly something to defend.

SociallyConditionedAg said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Backyard Gator said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Cibalo said:

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I wrote my state Rep before the election asking him to oppose the bill and listed my reasons why. He voted for it. I wrote him another letter saying I was disappointed in his vote for the bill and again listed my reasons why I thought it was a bad bill.
Never heard anything and I probably won't. Guess I can vote to primary him out next time around if that is an option.

FTR I live in Spring Branch ISD and send my kids to private school. But my parents, brother and his wife are all public school teachers. I also worry about the state sticking their head in private school business if they accept voucher payments.

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They damn well should if they're going to be accepting tax dollars.

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Are they tax dollars? Are the government money? Or do they belong to THE PARENTS WHO PAID THEM?

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They are government tax dollars because the parents using the voucher will overwhelmingly not have paid $10K+ in ISD taxes.

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The same statement can be made of those sending their kids to government schools. I don't like the bill, but why are we okay with one form of socialism but not another?

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I'm not ok with it. Are you advocating for ending public school and only those that can afford to pay get to go?

Sign me up. You will have to amend the state constitution though.

At least now, I am not competing against my own tax dollars and I do not have public kids now heading to my kids school.

SociallyConditionedAg said:

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The System said:

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SociallyConditionedAg said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Backyard Gator said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Cibalo said:

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I wrote my state Rep before the election asking him to oppose the bill and listed my reasons why. He voted for it. I wrote him another letter saying I was disappointed in his vote for the bill and again listed my reasons why I thought it was a bad bill.
Never heard anything and I probably won't. Guess I can vote to primary him out next time around if that is an option.

FTR I live in Spring Branch ISD and send my kids to private school. But my parents, brother and his wife are all public school teachers. I also worry about the state sticking their head in private school business if they accept voucher payments.

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They damn well should if they're going to be accepting tax dollars.

---

Are they tax dollars? Are the government money? Or do they belong to THE PARENTS WHO PAID THEM?

---

They are government tax dollars because the parents using the voucher will overwhelmingly not have paid $10K+ in ISD taxes.

---

The same statement can be made of those sending their kids to government schools. I don't like the bill, but why are we okay with one form of socialism but not another?

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Well, because one is mandated in the Texas Constitution. Texans realized the importance of an educated society and a fully funded public school system.

Once again, an issue this large should have been on the ballot. Not one person who supports vouchers has explained why it should not have been voted on directly by the people.

---

The constitution is not a perfect document. You could argue that 'public' education has been a failure from the start, or at least since Dewey stepped in.

I agree that this voucher system is bad, and maybe even require a vote, but the socialist education system is hardly something to defend.

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I completely disagree with that. The public school system has historically been a huge success and is one of the main reasons we advanced so well through the 20th century. Without it there is no way we would be where we are today. Frankly it not even worthy of a debate.

And understanding that fact doesn't make one a socialist or concerned moderate or any other BS label.

What is clearly true is we are at a point, like everything else, where its shortcomings are overwhelming and need to be addressed. That is very true. School choice(real school choice not this nonsense), scaling back if the 504 and ARS nonsense, a general streamlining of the organization, the elimination of federal involvement, etc. to name a few.

Thunderstruck xx said:

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This is only going to increase the tuition for private schools since they know that money from the government is available. The same thing happened with college tuition because of federal student loans.

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Yeah. My fish year, tuition was $4 per credit hour. To put it in perspective, that was about one tank of gas in your car per credit hour.

Yup….but had to find ways to pay for all the administrative, directors and VP's along with the DEI initiatives in every department

agsalaska said:

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SociallyConditionedAg said:

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The System said:

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SociallyConditionedAg said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Backyard Gator said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Cibalo said:

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I wrote my state Rep before the election asking him to oppose the bill and listed my reasons why. He voted for it. I wrote him another letter saying I was disappointed in his vote for the bill and again listed my reasons why I thought it was a bad bill.
Never heard anything and I probably won't. Guess I can vote to primary him out next time around if that is an option.

FTR I live in Spring Branch ISD and send my kids to private school. But my parents, brother and his wife are all public school teachers. I also worry about the state sticking their head in private school business if they accept voucher payments.

---

They damn well should if they're going to be accepting tax dollars.

---

Are they tax dollars? Are the government money? Or do they belong to THE PARENTS WHO PAID THEM?

---

They are government tax dollars because the parents using the voucher will overwhelmingly not have paid $10K+ in ISD taxes.

---

The same statement can be made of those sending their kids to government schools. I don't like the bill, but why are we okay with one form of socialism but not another?

---

Well, because one is mandated in the Texas Constitution. Texans realized the importance of an educated society and a fully funded public school system.

Once again, an issue this large should have been on the ballot. Not one person who supports vouchers has explained why it should not have been voted on directly by the people.

---

The constitution is not a perfect document. You could argue that 'public' education has been a failure from the start, or at least since Dewey stepped in.

I agree that this voucher system is bad, and maybe even require a vote, but the socialist education system is hardly something to defend.

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I completely disagree with that. The public school system has historically been a huge success and is one of the main reasons we advanced so well through the 20th century. Without it there is no way we would be where we are today. Frankly it not even worthy of a debate.

And understanding that fact doesn't make one a socialist or concerned moderate or any other BS label.

What is clearly true is we are at a point, like everything else, where its shortcomings are overwhelming and need to be addressed. That is very true. School choice(real school choice not this nonsense), scaling back if the 504 and ARS nonsense, a general streamlining of the organization, the elimination of federal involvement, etc. to name a few.

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That may be true up until about the 60s. We need real change right now but I'm afraid they're long past saving.

Thunderstruck xx said:

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This is only going to increase the tuition for private schools since they know that money from the government is available. The same thing happened with college tuition because of federal student loans.

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Yep, conservatives wanted a handout to help for their private school tuition costs, that is what will happen.

This whole voucher thing was BS disguised as "school choice".

If the voucher money belongs to the parents that paid them, then since I do t have any kids in school, why should I pay them?

Cibalo said:

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The public school takes thousands of my money and does a poor job educating students. Mostly due to government interference. As in most cases less government is more.

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Do they though? Or are you just regurgitating talking points you've heard?

Seems to me colleges in our state are filled with products of public schools, so somebody is learning.

It could be said that students who want to learn appear to being doing just fine.

Students who don't want to be at school, or whose parents don't value education, or those with learning/language barriers tend to affect the perception you describe.

What is your metric exactly? Going to college means public schools work?

Cynic said:

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Thunderstruck xx said:

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This is only going to increase the tuition for private schools since they know that money from the government is available. The same thing happened with college tuition because of federal student loans.

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Yep, conservatives wanted a handout to help for their private school tuition costs

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A handout? The taxes we are forced to pay for education are a handout?

Show your work.

texagbeliever said:

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What is your metric exactly? Going to college means public schools work?

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Well, using the state designed A-F accountability system, 93% of schools earned a grade of C or higher. 74% of those were B or higher.

So according to the state's own criteria, 93% of schools are doing at least what they are tasked with doing.

And that accountability system was not exactly developed to show public schools in a positive light, so schools are succeeding despite having the accountability deck stacked against them.

Booma94 said:

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Cibalo said:

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The public school takes thousands of my money and does a poor job educating students. Mostly due to government interference. As in most cases less government is more.

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Do they though? Or are you just regurgitating talking points you've heard?

Seems to me colleges in our state are filled with products of public schools, so somebody is learning.

It could be said that students who want to learn appear to being doing just fine.

Students who don't want to be at school, or whose parents don't value education, or those with learning/language barriers tend to affect the perception you describe.

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Or you know i have direct family members that teach in all levels of public education from elementary to college.
Everything has to be taught to the lowest common denominator.
This is detrimental to kids that want to learn as they are held back by the school. They often succeed in spite of the public education they got.
Sure universities are full of paying customers. The standards are pretty low to get accepted into a state college or university (compared to private universities). And a lot of them come out with a degree that doesn't get them anywhere but back where they were when they left high school.

Booma94 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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What is your metric exactly? Going to college means public schools work?

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Well, using the state designed A-F accountability system, 93% of schools earned a grade of C or higher. 74% of those were B or higher.

So according to the state's own criteria, 93% of schools are doing at least what they are tasked with doing.

And that accountability system was not exactly developed to show public schools in a positive light, so schools are succeeding despite having the accountability deck stacked against them.

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So the ones in charge of assigning the grades are the ones who would be held accountable if those grades were bad. Do you see the potential conflict of interest here?

Booma94 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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What is your metric exactly? Going to college means public schools work?

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Well, using the state designed A-F accountability system, 93% of schools earned a grade of C or higher. 74% of those were B or higher.

So according to the state's own criteria, 93% of schools are doing at least what they are tasked with doing.

And that accountability system was not exactly developed to show public schools in a positive light, so schools are succeeding despite having the accountability deck stacked against them.

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There are a LOT of posters in here that echo the idea that because something is public it is automatically bad. But they can't really explain why other than 'public=bad.' Which is somewhat ironic considering that most went to A&M.


Public schools have a lot of problems, but being 'public' isn't the main problem at all. The reason our Universities, mostly public, are the best in the world and our k-12 is unremarkable mostly has to do with lack of direct competition. The problem is the monopolistic environment they operate in, not the fact that they are public.

Cibalo said:

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Or you know i have direct family members that teach in all levels of public education from elementary to college.
Everything has to be taught to the lowest common denominator.
This is detrimental to kids that want to learn as they are held back by the school. They often succeed in spite of the public education they got.
Sure universities are full of paying customers. The standards are pretty low to get accepted into a state college or university (compared to private universities). And a lot of them come out with a degree that doesn't get them anywhere but back where they were when they left high school.

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Uh, ok...

Except that's not how it works.

agsalaska said:

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Booma94 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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What is your metric exactly? Going to college means public schools work?

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Well, using the state designed A-F accountability system, 93% of schools earned a grade of C or higher. 74% of those were B or higher.

So according to the state's own criteria, 93% of schools are doing at least what they are tasked with doing.

And that accountability system was not exactly developed to show public schools in a positive light, so schools are succeeding despite having the accountability deck stacked against them.

---

There are a LOT of posters in here that echo the idea that because something is public it is automatically bad. But they can't really explain why other than 'public=bad.' Which is somewhat ironic considering that most went to A&M.


Public schools have a lot of problems, but being 'public' isn't the main problem at all. The reason our Universities, mostly public, are the best in the world and our k-12 is unremarkable mostly has to do with lack of direct competition. The problem is the monopolistic environment they operate in, not the fact that they are public.

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I think it boils down to a frustration with the lack of power and influence Christians have inside public schools broadly, as an institution. Public schools being secular schools is so axiomatic now that people conflate them.

I'll say it again. Conservatives need to get back into public education.

Booma94 said:

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Except that's not how it works.

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Where do the grades come from.

Currently 54% of Americans have a literacy elow 6th grade. So I wouldn't say public school is doing great. 50% of adults are 6 grades behind their "graduated" grade.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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I'll say it again. Conservatives need to get back into public education.

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100%

texagbeliever said:

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Booma94 said:

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Except that's not how it works.

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Where do the grades come from.

Currently 54% of Americans have a literacy elow 6th grade. So I wouldn't say public school is doing great. 50% of adults are 6 grades behind their "graduated" grade.

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TEA along with input from the Legislature set the criteria which determines grades. Schools have little to no input on the criteria. And if you think TEA and the Legislature are friends of the public school system, then you have been sadly misinformed.

Is there a post on here that breaks this down to the level a 6th grader could understand it?


Feels like most teachers hate it..... which isnt necessarily a bad thing in my experience but I am very ignorant on this specific situation

Mr.Bond said:

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Is there a post on here that breaks this down to the level a 6th grader could understand it?


Feels like most teachers hate it..... which isnt necessarily a bad thing in my experience but I am very ignorant on this specific situation

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I would like something, as well, because along with most public school teachers hating it, the homeschool parents also seem to hate it. It's always interesting when those two groups are on the same page.

Booma94 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Booma94 said:

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Except that's not how it works.

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Where do the grades come from.

Currently 54% of Americans have a literacy elow 6th grade. So I wouldn't say public school is doing great. 50% of adults are 6 grades behind their "graduated" grade.

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TEA along with input from the Legislature set the criteria which determines grades. Schools have little to no input on the criteria. And if you think TEA and the Legislature are friends of the public school system, then you have been sadly misinformed.

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Oh you mean administrators who will write tests easier and easier year over year so they show growing performance. What a fool proof system.

Mr.Bond said:

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Is there a post on here that breaks this down to the level a 6th grader could understand it?


Feels like most teachers hate it..... which isnt necessarily a bad thing in my experience but I am very ignorant on this specific situation

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When what most people know is only 1 way of doing something, they are afraid of anything different. It is how socialists fear free markets, because something bad could happen.

agsalaska said:

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Booma94 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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What is your metric exactly? Going to college means public schools work?

---

Well, using the state designed A-F accountability system, 93% of schools earned a grade of C or higher. 74% of those were B or higher.

So according to the state's own criteria, 93% of schools are doing at least what they are tasked with doing.

And that accountability system was not exactly developed to show public schools in a positive light, so schools are succeeding despite having the accountability deck stacked against them.

---

There are a LOT of posters in here that echo the idea that because something is public it is automatically bad. But they can't really explain why other than 'public=bad.' Which is somewhat ironic considering that most went to A&M.


Public schools have a lot of problems, but being 'public' isn't the main problem at all. The reason our Universities, mostly public, are the best in the world and our k-12 is unremarkable mostly has to do with lack of direct competition. The problem is the monopolistic environment they operate in, not the fact that they are public.

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A public school is not automatically bad. A public school system is automatically bad the same way any socialistic system is bad - even if it has reasonable results, long term, it will fail compared to a non-socialistic system and it will fail in different ways. It will be less and less responsive over time to the needs of society, it will be more and more costly, and provide less and less results for that cost. Government has an inverse of efficiency of scale in everything that it does. The argument has never been "all public schools are bad". It is that the public school model of providing education is a bad idea which gets worse and more unfixable over time, just like all socialized systems.

texagbeliever said:

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Booma94 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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What is your metric exactly? Going to college means public schools work?

---

Well, using the state designed A-F accountability system, 93% of schools earned a grade of C or higher. 74% of those were B or higher.

So according to the state's own criteria, 93% of schools are doing at least what they are tasked with doing.

And that accountability system was not exactly developed to show public schools in a positive light, so schools are succeeding despite having the accountability deck stacked against them.

---

So the ones in charge of assigning the grades are the ones who would be held accountable if those grades were bad. Do you see the potential conflict of interest here?

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The accountability scores are based on STAAR, and there isn't much a school district can do about them. The one thing they could do - sue to keep them from being released - was done, because the test and the scoring were changed in the same year. The judge ruled in favor of the state releasing the scores.

I wish the public was aware of what an absolute farce and disaster the rating system is for Texas Schools. The ratings can be whatever TEA and those in power would like them to be. Abolishing the ratings and STAAR exam would go a long way to improving public education.