Other then delaying ESAs another year and throwing any obstacle they can in the way the Democrats might have received a pretty good smackdown with a referendum.

University of Houston January 2025 Poll:
https://uh.edu/hobby/tx2025/budget.pdf

Quote:

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67% of Texans support Education Savings Account (ESA) legislation that would benefit all parents, with 31% strongly supporting this legislative proposal.

72% of Texans support Education Savings Account (ESA) legislation that would only benefit low-income parents, with 41% strongly supporting this legislative proposal.

Support for ESA legislation benefiting all parents is highest among Latino Republicans (70%) and white Republicans (70%) and lowest among Latino Democrats (61%) and white Democrats (52%), with Black Democrats (66%) in between.

Support for ESA legislation benefiting only low-income parents is highest among Black Democrats (82%) and Latino Republicans (76%) and lowest among white Republicans (68%) and white Democrats (67%), with Latino Democrats (70%) in between.

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That's because most teachers believe the current system is broken AND most of the ideas to "fix" it won't improve the current issues.

Good and bad schools are a function of the concentration of good and bad parents imo.

I bought a house in a good school district to avoid a higher concentration of bad parents compared to my previous home. The idea was to put the extra money into a house in a good ISD that appreciates vs private school

Hope the vouchers don't depreciate my investment and bring the school district down

oldag941 said:

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Sure. But $62k as a new teacher and 22 years old is not bad. Out of college, I never thought I was going to buy a house and not have a roommate etc. Most new teachers are right out of college. I guess I thought that is getting closer to fair. My experience was as a 2LT in the Army. I knew it was an apartment with a roommate. I was paid enough for that. I think it's similar for new grad teachers.

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That pay rate is to try and entice ANYONE into the classroom. However what you don't see is the rates an experienced teacher with say 15 years is making. It's not much higher.

Lonestar_Ag09 said:

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oldag941 said:

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Sure. But $62k as a new teacher and 22 years old is not bad. Out of college, I never thought I was going to buy a house and not have a roommate etc. Most new teachers are right out of college. I guess I thought that is getting closer to fair. My experience was as a 2LT in the Army. I knew it was an apartment with a roommate. I was paid enough for that. I think it's similar for new grad teachers.

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That pay rate is to try and entice ANYONE into the classroom. However what you don't see is the rates an experienced teacher with say 15 years is making. It's not much higher.

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Allow opting into social security instead of TRS would help to entice people to become teachers imo. That's particularly true with people who have been in the commercial world and still need SS credits

DD88 said:

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Other then delaying ESAs another year and throwing any obstacle they can in the way the Democrats might have received a pretty good smackdown with a referendum.

University of Houston January 2025 Poll:
https://uh.edu/hobby/tx2025/budget.pdf

Quote:

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67% of Texans support Education Savings Account (ESA) legislation that would benefit all parents, with 31% strongly supporting this legislative proposal.

72% of Texans support Education Savings Account (ESA) legislation that would only benefit low-income parents, with 41% strongly supporting this legislative proposal.

Support for ESA legislation benefiting all parents is highest among Latino Republicans (70%) and white Republicans (70%) and lowest among Latino Democrats (61%) and white Democrats (52%), with Black Democrats (66%) in between.

Support for ESA legislation benefiting only low-income parents is highest among Black Democrats (82%) and Latino Republicans (76%) and lowest among white Republicans (68%) and white Democrats (67%), with Latino Democrats (70%) in between.

---

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Saying they support an ESA program is FAR different from supporting SB2.

It's not even a top priority in this survey.

Also, more people submitted opposing comments/public testimony when these bills were up for debate than the approximate number for ESAs in this survey.

Oh I see it. Our district made a major decision a year ago to commit to compensation that reduced that compression. But it took a commitment at the local level and a lot of risk, hoping that there's some funding relief from Austin. Without that, trying to compensate better in teachers accordingly is not sustainable.

Many many districts have gone into fund balance to stay afloat. It'll get ugly if no funding this session

Yes, we had friends that moved to Highland Park and bought the cheapest house they could find, at over $1 million, to take advantage of the excellent public schools. The other option was to stay in the house where they were, but pay $30,000-$40,000 a year per kid for private school.

Economics is the biggest driver of a school's performance. There are outliers. But a neighborhood's wealth, education level of parents, higher expectations of academic performance,etc. when these things exist, the odds are the local public school will perform highly. When these things don't exist, the performance of the local public school is questionable.

A student's education is a partnership between the school, the parents and the student. It's like a three legged stool. If any one of those legs is not performing, the stool will not stand.

Good deal. I missed that. That will definitely help districts plan for next year

But the bill the house passed is very different from the Senate bill. So there's no telling what kind of changes will take place in the Senate or if it comes back to a conference committee.

PGAG said:

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Good deal. I missed that. That will definitely help districts plan for next year

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Aw man, I tried erasing my comment, ha!

I miss understood your comment. The house voted on HB2 today, but it's not a done deal yet.

I absolutely never not want to give out inaccurate or false information - sorry about that!

oldag941 said:

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But the bill the house passed is very different from the Senate bill. So there's no telling what kind of changes will take place in the Senate or if it comes back to a conference committee.

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You're right, I'm sorry. As I replied to PGAG, I misunderstood his comment and jumped the gun in my reply.

I apologize for any confusion, everyone!

No worries!!

FIDO_Ags said:

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Great! Now go drive around those neighborhoods and tell me what schools they are zoned to and then tell me you'd put your kids in those schools.

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How about you quit moving the goalposts, and just admit a $54k-$72k salary is to start out is livable, and anyone struggling to live on that needs to learn some financial discipline?

I'm not going to drive to Houston just to win an internet argument, what an asinine suggestion.

I'm not moving goalposts and somebody already said it, a teacher with 15 years experience is still making that salary. You keep talking about starter teachers, you want your kid being taught by someone right out of college in nearly every year at every grade level? The funny thing is that private school teachers get paid less than public school teachers so give that some thought.

And I don't know where you're from, but if your going to link a realtor sight and say you found reasonable homes, I'm going to call you out. I lived north of I-10 in Spring Shadows in Spring Branch until I could afford a home in Memorial. Kept my daughters in private school until we moved there. I know where all those homes are in that realtor link and you wouldn't live there and you damn sure would want your kids going to the schools they are zoned to. Hope you speak Spanish too.

Since you like looking at realty links, go look at the price of homes in any of the Memorial Villages, or Westchester, or anywhere around City Center, Memorial High School or Stratford High School essentially anything within 8 miles of the 77024 zip code.

What you're selling isn't real and you're just being dishonest about what teachers can afford to score political points, but as some who lived in the area, had daughters in the schools, and had a wife that taught there, you're just wrong.

Can the 4 star running back and three star DL now change to "Football High" with their voucher, no questions asked? It's a "better" school and now their choice.

FIDO_Ags said:

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I'm not moving goalposts and somebody already said it, a teacher with 15 years experience is still making that salary. You keep talking about starter teachers, you want your kid being taught by someone right out of college in nearly every year at every grade level? The funny thing is that private school teachers get paid less than public school teachers so give that some thought.

And I don't know where you're from, but if your going to link a realtor sight and say you found reasonable homes, I'm going to call you out. I lived north of I-10 in Spring Shadows in Spring Branch until I could afford a home in Memorial. Kept my daughters in private school until we moved there. I know where all those homes are in that realtor link and you wouldn't live there and you damn sure would want your kids going to the schools they are zoned to. Hope you speak Spanish too.

Since you like looking at realty links, go look at the price of homes in any of the Memorial Villages, or Westchester, or anywhere around City Center, Memorial High School or Stratford High School essentially anything within 8 miles of the 77024 zip code.

What you're selling isn't real and you're just being dishonest about what teachers can afford to score political points, but as some who lived in the area, had daughters in the schools, and had a wife that taught there, you're just wrong.

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I'm well aware private school teachers get paid less than public school teachers, I went to private school until I attended A&M. Do you know why those private school teachers accepted lower salaries? Because they don't have to put up with the brain-dead policies, bureaucracy, and idiocy of public schools, which is a bigger driver of teachers leaving than salary.

My point here is that salaries are not the #1 issue for quality of education, or for teachers leaving the profession. You tried to turn it from that discussion into an argument about salaries not being enough for a middle class living/enough to buy a home in a specific school district, I found homes in that school district, now you're saying they don't exist and it's just a realty link. Okay.

I think you're just upset because you lack financial discipline and struggle, and would rather blame the evil school districts who "don't pay enough", rather than look in the mirror at the real source of your problems.

As for 'trying to score political points", you way overestimate how much I care about this topic.

Hope you have a better day tomorrow.

Iraq2xVeteran said:

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Schrute Farms said:

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Conservatives/Libertarians oppose it because it introduces government control to private schools. State funding, like vouchers, are a direct way to tie gov preferences to the private sector.

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This! My best friend is a teacher in the La Porte Independent School District and a Republican, and he thinks it's ok to leave education up to the state. But he doesn't like how Governor Greg Abbott is trying to give vouchers to private schools instead of public schools. His wife is a teacher in the Pasadena School District, and she said her campus will cut 5 positions, which means larger classrooms. Controlling student behavior is already difficult, and it will become even harder with larger classrooms.

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Teaching today is more about behavior management and not actual teaching. The entire system State wide is cutting teachers.

I have come to believe that for the Republicans, and I voted for Abbott, that's a feature and not a bug.

Zero reason to make it personal towards that poster. That's a bad post. You should edit that personal insult out.

Are you dense? Lack financial discipline? I just told you I lived in a less than desirable neighborhood in Houston until I made enough and saved enough to buy a home in and live in one of the best neighborhoods in Houston.

And I'm not angry about anything. My daughters graduated so I sold that home in Memorial for a tidy profit and bought some acreage in the Flint Hills of Kansas to get away from insufferable people like you.

Like I said, you're just wrong and uninformed and probably live in suburban DFW too. Sux to be you! Enjoy that daily commute.

Backyard Gator said:

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FIDO_Ags said:

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I'm not moving goalposts and somebody already said it, a teacher with 15 years experience is still making that salary. You keep talking about starter teachers, you want your kid being taught by someone right out of college in nearly every year at every grade level? The funny thing is that private school teachers get paid less than public school teachers so give that some thought.

And I don't know where you're from, but if your going to link a realtor sight and say you found reasonable homes, I'm going to call you out. I lived north of I-10 in Spring Shadows in Spring Branch until I could afford a home in Memorial. Kept my daughters in private school until we moved there. I know where all those homes are in that realtor link and you wouldn't live there and you damn sure would want your kids going to the schools they are zoned to. Hope you speak Spanish too.

Since you like looking at realty links, go look at the price of homes in any of the Memorial Villages, or Westchester, or anywhere around City Center, Memorial High School or Stratford High School essentially anything within 8 miles of the 77024 zip code.

What you're selling isn't real and you're just being dishonest about what teachers can afford to score political points, but as some who lived in the area, had daughters in the schools, and had a wife that taught there, you're just wrong.

---

I'm well aware private school teachers get paid less than public school teachers, I went to private school until I attended A&M. Do you know why those private school teachers accepted lower salaries? Because they don't have to put up with the brain-dead policies, bureaucracy, and idiocy of public schools, which is a bigger driver of teachers leaving than salary.

My point here is that salaries are not the #1 issue for quality of education, or for teachers leaving the profession. You tried to turn it from that discussion into an argument about salaries not being enough for a middle class living/enough to buy a home in a specific school district, I found homes in that school district, now you're saying they don't exist and it's just a realty link. Okay.

I think you're just upset because you lack financial discipline and struggle, and would rather blame the evil school districts who "don't pay enough", rather than look in the mirror at the real source of your problems.

As for 'trying to score political points", you way overestimate how much I care about this topic.

Hope you have a better day tomorrow.

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Both of my parents were teachers and mom did not work till i was in Jr high while she worked on her degree and odd jobs here and there. It was tight. Still they bought a home that was around 5 years old, not sure if they'd be able to keep up the payments. It worked out, just gotta live frugal and they both knew it wasn't the path to riches or even comfort going in

FIDO_Ags said:

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Are you dense? Lack financial discipline? I just told you I lived in a less than desirable neighborhood in Houston until I made enough and saved enough to buy a home in and live in one of the best neighborhoods in Houston.

And I'm not angry about anything. My daughters graduated so I sold that home in Memorial for a tidy profit and bought some acreage in the Flint Hills of Kansas to get away from insufferable people like you.

Like I said, you're just wrong and uninformed and probably live in suburban DFW too. Sux to be you! Enjoy that daily commute.

---

According to you, living next to Hispanics makes a neighborhood 'less than desirable', so I don't know how to interpret that portion of your posts. Hell, according to you, this forum is filled with racists who are terrified to live next to Spanish-speaking neighbors, so I can't take anything you say seriously.

If you really do live in Kansas, congrats I guess?

SB2 Passes 86-63 (Phelan,VanDeaver, and the Democrats) after 43/44 tabled Amendments.

SB2 Record Vote

SB2 Bill Information

Destroying the public school system even more.

agsalaska said:

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Iraq2xVeteran said:

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Schrute Farms said:

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Conservatives/Libertarians oppose it because it introduces government control to private schools. State funding, like vouchers, are a direct way to tie gov preferences to the private sector.

---

This! My best friend is a teacher in the La Porte Independent School District and a Republican, and he thinks it's ok to leave education up to the state. But he doesn't like how Governor Greg Abbott is trying to give vouchers to private schools instead of public schools. His wife is a teacher in the Pasadena School District, and she said her campus will cut 5 positions, which means larger classrooms. Controlling student behavior is already difficult, and it will become even harder with larger classrooms.

---

Teaching today is more about behavior management and not actual teaching. The entire system State wide is cutting teachers.

I have come to believe that for the Republicans, and I voted for Abbott, that's a feature and not a bug.

---

Say what? Cutting teachers where? A good number of districts can't even find enough certified teachers to cut. They're hiring anyone with a degree and trying to get them certified with OJT. In fact, one of the big hurdles for public schools is clearing the certification requirements that charters and private schools get to dodge.

Lord Abbott knows best. Better get on board or he'll come for you too.

BBRex said:

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agsalaska said:

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Iraq2xVeteran said:

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Schrute Farms said:

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Conservatives/Libertarians oppose it because it introduces government control to private schools. State funding, like vouchers, are a direct way to tie gov preferences to the private sector.

---

This! My best friend is a teacher in the La Porte Independent School District and a Republican, and he thinks it's ok to leave education up to the state. But he doesn't like how Governor Greg Abbott is trying to give vouchers to private schools instead of public schools. His wife is a teacher in the Pasadena School District, and she said her campus will cut 5 positions, which means larger classrooms. Controlling student behavior is already difficult, and it will become even harder with larger classrooms.

---

Teaching today is more about behavior management and not actual teaching. The entire system State wide is cutting teachers.

I have come to believe that for the Republicans, and I voted for Abbott, that's a feature and not a bug.

---

Say what? Cutting teachers where? A good number of districts can't even find enough certified teachers to cut. They're hiring anyone with a degree and trying to get them certified with OJT. In fact, one of the big hurdles for public schools is clearing the certification requirements that charters and private schools get to dodge.

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The vast majority of school districts across the State are cutting teachers. Every school in our 5a UIL district is cutting. Same is true for the UIL 6A district my BIL coaches in.

Your right that there is, or was, a shortage that was filled with non certified teachers. But with the budget shortfalls the school are now having to cut staff. A lot of teachers are being told to expect 180ish students next year.

This thing infuriates me, Abbott and Patrick since the beginning of their tenure, reduced the amount of tax dollars given to schools and legislated that into place, like 5-7 years ago. So then he created animosity at the local level when school districts raised taxes to fund the districts. Finally he prevented them from doing so to squeeze public education to allow vouchers to happen, essentially controlling the funding completely to push his voucher agenda. This has been an egregious government interference and party politics allowed it to happen.

This is a millionaire tax break, and a way for his buddy Jeff Yass to make money off kids.

3 billionaires, a paid off Governor, a paid off looney Lt Gov, and spineless republicans completed their attack on the public school system. They were too afraid to actually put it on the ballot and let the people decide. Quite pathetic.

Backyard Gator said:

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FIDO_Ags said:

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I'm well aware private school teachers get paid less than public school teachers, I went to private school until I attended A&M. Do you know why those private school teachers accepted lower salaries? Because they don't have to put up with the brain-dead policies, bureaucracy, and idiocy of public schools, which is a bigger driver of teachers leaving than salary.

---

My point here is that salaries are not the #1 issue for quality of education, or for teachers leaving the profession.

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In my experience, from my wife and her teaching friends, and friends from church who are private school teachers, you are exactly right on these points. The teachers I know left the profession or moved to a non government school because the admins refused try any discipline. The small percentage of students, and their parents, who cause disruptions were placated instead of being subjected to meaningful consequences that had a chance of altering their behavior.