aggie1906 said:

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Sounds like Schill killed his chances of ever getting in.

That tweet is in reference to the below.

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Yeah this was referenced in an article I had posted a couple pages back. Based on what many voters have said, that t-shirt may kill his chances. The shirt is bad enough, but it's talking about the very people voting on this.

Great write-up from a non-voter: http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/the-ten-players-id-elect-to-the-baseball-hall-of-fame-and-those-who-miss-the-cut/

He didn't include Vlad, but has a link to one of his throws from RF. I could watch that guy throw from RF all day.

Mr.Bond said:

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I hate that Bagwell didn't get in last year in such a small class. Looks like this year could be loaded and he would obviously be overshadowed

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I wouldn't be surprised if only 2 or 3 made it in this year.

That would be great ....assuming bags is one of them. Which I obviously think he will be

Agreed. I think Bagwell and Raines are definitely making it. Pudge will have to fight off the anti-1st ballot voters. I think it'll be close for him. Hoffman may get in, but I'm not much a fan so I'm kind of hoping he falls short.

I am starting to think that Bonds/Clemens may get in next year though.

RetiredAg said:

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Agreed. I think Bagwell and Raines are definitely making it. Pudge will have to fight off the anti-1st ballot voters. I think it'll be close for him. Hoffman may get in, but I'm not much a fan so I'm kind of hoping he falls short.

I am starting to think that Bonds/Clemens may get in next year though.

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I think Bonds, Clemens, Hoffman, Pudge (if he misses this year), and Chipper in 2018. That'll be a fantastic class.

aggie1906 said:

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RetiredAg said:

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Agreed. I think Bagwell and Raines are definitely making it. Pudge will have to fight off the anti-1st ballot voters. I think it'll be close for him. Hoffman may get in, but I'm not much a fan so I'm kind of hoping he falls short.

I am starting to think that Bonds/Clemens may get in next year though.

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I think Bonds, Clemens, Hoffman, Pudge (if he misses this year), and Chipper in 2018. That'll be a fantastic class.

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Yeah, that would be insanely great. Top 3 player all-time. Possibly greatest RHP of all-time. Top 3 catcher all-time. Possibly top-5 3B all-time. And then Hoffman.

Part of me, though, would love to see Selig be overshadowed by Bonds/Clemens this year though.

It's going to be hard as the asinine ballots start rolling in:

Direct quote from his article:

Quote:

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If there is a suspicion a former player might have juiced during his career, I withhold a checkmark on my ballot. And I don't care if he never tested positive or if he was never implicated in any official investigation.

Don't blame me. Blame the era.

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Just passing the blame....

Yeah, his reasoning is absurd because there isn't a player that anyone can say with any certainty didn't use. Nobody is above suspicion.

Congratulatuons Rick Morrissey. You are now officially a bigger tool than Steven Marcus. I thought that was not possible but you in fact have leap frogged him and are the clubhouse leader.

Seriously. If you are going to take the stand that steroids are a deal breaker and that even the tiniest of innuendo are enough to not vote, then you need to not vote for anyone. Otherwise you are a hypocrite.

And why are Raines, Schilling, Hoffman and Walker above suspicion? Such a ridiculous standard.

59 Ballots Received
Jeff Bagwell (53 - 90%) +2
Tim Raines (53 - 90%) +9
Pudge Rodriguez (48- 81%)
Trevor Hoffman (45 - 76%) +2
Barry Bonds (41 - 69%) +5
Roger Clemens (41 - 69%) +6
Vladimir Guerrero (40 - 68%)
Edgar Martinez (37 - 63%) +9
Mike Mussina (37 - 63%) +5



**net gain/loss from last year to far right. First ballot in italics.

Bagwell needs to pick up 15 ballots, Raines 23. The numbers look good, but they're going to drop.

Ken Rosenthal's ballot. Said his toughest decision was Wagner vs Vlad. He's moved into the camp of "if you are a Hoffman voter, you should also be a Wagner voter", but this vote was strategic. He thinks Vlad and Wagner are both deserving, but fears Wagner may fall short of 5%.

I'm in the same boat. If you vote Hoffman then you should probably vote Wagner too. Wagner'a peak was better IMO. He just didn't rack up the save totals.

Yeah, I am now in that same camp, although I still am not sure if I'd vote for either. But if I did, I'd vote for both.

I'm biased, but I'd vote for Wagner.

Although unlikely Wagner gets in, what hat would you assume he would wear? Obviously Houston was his longest tenured spot, maybe the gold shooting star?

Here's an interesting one from today:

Moral of the story:

Did they cheat? Sure, but who cares!

http://www.nhregister.com/sports/20161219/borges-baseball-hall-of-fame-ballot-includes-an-idiot-cheaters

I would have selected most of his selections, but he doesn't make a convincing argument at all in his article.

Doesn't look like Pat Burrell is getting in

astros4545 said:

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Doesn't look like Pat Burrell is getting in

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But his name rhymes with Pearl.

Another 9 ballots received

68 Ballots Received
Jeff Bagwell (61 - 90%) +2
Tim Raines (60 - 88%) +11
Pudge Rodriguez (57 - 84%)
Trevor Hoffman (52 - 76%) +2
Barry Bonds (49 - 72%) +7
Roger Clemens (49 - 72%) +8
Vladimir Guerrero (49 - 72%)
Edgar Martinez (43 - 63%) +10
Mike Mussina (42 - 62%) +4

Much needed strong stretch by Pudge there. Was listed on all 9 of the new ballots. It still looks like it'll be an uphill battle for him, but should be close. Raines continues to pick up a ton of new votes. He's already picked up over half of the new votes needed w/ just under 16% of the ballots received. Bags continues to lead the way, although I'm surprised he doesn't have a higher net gain than +2. He needs 10 more flips from no to yes.

Edgar Martinez is interesting. He's gaining a ton of votes, but won't make it this year most likely. That leaves him w/ only 2 years remaining on the ballot. I know Chipper comes up next year and I think Bonds and Clemens will have a legit shot at making it next year as well. Will be curious to watch him. Read an article breaking down Edgar vs Ortiz. It's amazing that Ortiz will be a 1st ballot inductee, yet Edgar sits here on his 8th ballot.

Great write-up on Pudge.

Interesting note near the end re: Bagwell. I had no idea that he had admitted to using androstenedione.

RetiredAg said:

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Great write-up on Pudge.

Interesting note near the end re: Bagwell. I had no idea that he had admitted to using androstenedione.

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When it was not a banned substance.

I think most everyone was taking Andro. It was openly visible in lockers. IIRC they were getting it at places like GNC. Andro and creatine both were everywhere.

aggie1906 said:

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RetiredAg said:

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Great write-up on Pudge.

Interesting note near the end re: Bagwell. I had no idea that he had admitted to using androstenedione.

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When it was not a banned substance.

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I know. Just thought it was interesting. It was a PED, just a legal PED at the time.

mathguy86 said:

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I think most everyone was taking Andro. It was openly visible in lockers. IIRC they were getting it at places like GNC. Andro and creatine both were everywhere.

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Yeah, I have no issue with it. I just thought the note was interesting, as I had not known that before.

Studies have shown that andro does not lead to muscle growth or strength gains, nor does it lead to an increase in testosterone. It was all the craze, but it didn't have the impact many were seeking. I think a lot of baseball players that were taking it or claiming to take it were actually on steroids.

RetiredAg said:

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And why are Raines, Schilling, Hoffman and Walker above suspicion? Such a ridiculous standard.

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Raines was suspended for cocaine use. I don't know why one illegal drug is worse than another for voters.

Another 10 ballots received

78 Ballots Received
Jeff Bagwell (70 - 90%) +4
Tim Raines (69 - 88%) +15
Pudge Rodriguez (64 - 82%)
Trevor Hoffman (59 - 76%) +1
Vladimir Guerrero (55 - 71%)
Barry Bonds (54 - 69%) +7
Roger Clemens (54 - 69%) +8
Edgar Martinez (52 - 67%) +12
Mike Mussina (48 - 62%) +6

I think it's starting to look more and more like a 2-3 person class. Hoffman needed to gain 38 votes from last year, and is sitting at +1 at the 18% mark so far. Pudge is going to be very close. He had gotten up to 84% but has gone back down to 82%.

At this point I fully expect Bags & Raines in. Pudge will be right on the cut line. Could be just a few votes that decide if he's in or not this year.

Agreed. I think Pudge is going to be very similar to Biggio in the year prior to him making it. What was it? Something like 3 votes?