HOF Ballot Released

49,996 Views | 475 Replies | Last: 9 yr ago by mhayden
cr06gis
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I love this class!

All 3 were favorites of mine growing up. Really happy Raines was able to make it in, him and Henderson were men amonget boys on the base paths.
Mr.Bond
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CampingAg
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The induction ceremony is gonna be a real life Houston vs. Dallas thread
Farmer1906
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Mr.Bond said:




2 Astros in the hall in one year. Impressive.
Mathguy64
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It would have been nice to see Bidge and Bags have their plaques next to each other in the same class, but I'll take it. And 86.2% is a high number. Good for him!
Mr.Ackar07
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Livingston's abstention ballot was counted, but it didn't impact the end results. Hoffman would have still missed by 4 votes. If those 8 damn writers who dropped Hoffman after voting for him the year before hadn't done so, he would be in. 3 of those 8 voters didn't even vote for 10 players.
mhayden
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free_mhayden said:

There's really some people who still think Pudge isn't going to be a first ballot hall-of-famer?
PacifistAg
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Well, now I can go back to only casually following the HOF vote for another 7 years until Beltre comes up.
Mathguy64
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Really cool fact. Bagwell and Biggio are a very rare duo. Both in the HOF, played together and spent their entire pro career with the same team. Koufax and Drysdale, Pops Stargell, Clemente and Maz were a trio, Palmer and Brooks Robinson had some overlaps but nowhere near what the Bs had.

Edit (2): it looks like there was one year where Koufax, Drysdale, Jackie Robinson and Pee Wee Reese (and another edit to add!) Roy Campanella were all in the same team at the same time. 5 guys all in the HOF who all played for the Dodgers their entire career. All on the same team at the same time. That's gotta be some serious bar trivia right there.
jkag89
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I am thrilled that Bags is finally in, hopefully some of the new generation of Astros will find their way to Cooperstown in in 20 to 25 years from now.

Very pleased to see Pudge make it on the first ballot. Always had a soft spot in my heart for defensive catchers and he was certainly much more than that. He was the best catcher of his era and as such deserves being a first ballot HoFer.

Always believed Raines deserved more credit than he has often recieved. Glad he is finally in.
astros4545
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Only question that remains...

Does Pudge go into the Hall with an Astros or Rangers cap?
Gil Renard
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A known roider inside baseball circles. Yes. Outside of Jose book. Gets in. That's interesting. Love pudge but he's been a known steroid user just never got the scrutiny
Gil Renard
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Glad he got in. Big fan. Just being objective
iBrad
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astros4545 said:

Only question that remains...

Does Pudge go into the Hall with an Astros or Rangers cap?

Marlins
astros4545
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Random...
Who is next catcher to get in HoF?


Molina? Mauer? Not born yet?

Posey
PacifistAg
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Gil Renard said:

A known roider inside baseball circles. Yes. Outside of Jose book. Gets in. That's interesting. Love pudge but he's been a known steroid user just never got the scrutiny

No positive test. No mention in any official report on the subject. Do I think he used? Yes, but there's no evidence outside Canseco's book. If this were a trial, you'd never get a conviction.
BMX Bandit
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RetiredAg said:

Gil Renard said:

A known roider inside baseball circles. Yes. Outside of Jose book. Gets in. That's interesting. Love pudge but he's been a known steroid user just never got the scrutiny

No positive test. No mention in any official report on the subject. Do I think he used? Yes, but there's no evidence outside Canseco's book. If this were a trial, you'd never get a conviction.
similar to Clemens
jkag89
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All three are possibilities. The cases for Posey and Molina are enhanced by being key figures on World Series winning teams although this did not help Jorge Posada even a little (or maybe any votes he received was due the Yankees postseason dominance). Mauer has not been behind the plate the past two or three seasons, he has been moved to 1st base.
mhayden
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Two Hall of Famers... And Tino Martinez!

PacifistAg
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I'll top that. First ballot Hall of Famer pitching to first ballot Hall of Famer, who then proceeds to throw out a first ballot Hall of Famer.

Dallasag02
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Gil Renard said:

A known roider inside baseball circles. Yes. Outside of Jose book. Gets in. That's interesting. Love pudge but he's been a known steroid user just never got the scrutiny


I think the difference is that Pudge got in for his defense and overall play behind the plate, along with his consistency as a hitter. He was never a big home run guy, and fairly or unfairly the steroid stuff sticks to those guys more than it does a guy like Pudge.
PacifistAg
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astros4545 said:

Random...
Who is next catcher to get in HoF?


Molina? Mauer? Not born yet?

Posey
Good question.

Mauer hasn't caught since 2013, and like a running back, his numbers have really dropped off once he hit 30. At this point, he's a light hitting first baseman. He does have 6 All-Star games and 3 Gold Gloves as a catcher, but doubt that's enough to get him in. I'd say it's a "no" on him, unless he has a late career rebound. It's a shame, because those first 10 years were amazing. Perhaps that will be enough to get him in though.

Molina has 8 Gold Gloves and 7 All-Star games. He's not the hitter Mauer was, but he's also a far superior defensive catcher than Mauer. He's 33 right now, so for him it really depends on how long he can hold up. His dWAR is 21, compared to Pudge's 28.7, so he will likely end his career in Pudge's ballpark w/ regard to that stat. He's kind of the anti-Mauer....great defender, so-so hitter. I'd lean towards Molina eventually getting in, assuming he has 3-4 more really solid seasons, especially if he adds a couple more Gold Gloves.

Posey, as of right now, looks like he's on track to be a certain HOFer. Of course, it's a brutal position and a person can quickly break down (see Mauer). He's probably the most complete C of this bunch. He's going to be interesting to watch over the next few seasons. He has the rings. He has an MVP and ROY. He just got his first GG. If he starts stringing some GG together, I think he waltzes in.

I think Mauer is a great example of why it's so hard for a C to make the HOF. The position takes a toll on you. Catcher is such a tough position to evaluate because you can't really use the standard hitting milestones as a criteria, and quantifying defensive aspects is imperfect.
Farmer1906
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14 years together and now they share Cooperstown too.







During that 14 year run, Biggio scored 1566 runs and Bagwell drove in 1529. I wonder what % of those were each other.
PacifistAg
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Now that we know who is dropping from the ballot, whether from election of sub-5%, next year will be interesting.

Holdovers that are likely to be on 50% or more of the ballots:
Hoffman
Vlad
Edgar Martinez
Clemens
Bonds
Mussina
Schilling (If he keeps his mouth/twitter shut)

Holdovers that are really suffering from crowded ballot:

Walker
McGriff
Kent
Sheffield
Wagner

And then there's Manny, but I don't think he has a shot given his failed tests.

First-timers w/ shot at HOF:
Chipper
Thome
Vizquel
Rolen
Andruw
Santana

The first-timers seem to full of elite defensive players w/ good-to-sub-par offensive numbers (Rolen, Andruw, and Vizquel). A lot of Gold Gloves in this group.

So, if I'm filling out a ballot next year and using all 10 spots, it looks like this:
Vlad
Bonds
Clemens
Chipper
Mussina
Martinez
Walker
Thome
Sheffield
McGriff
Psych
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I'd like to see the person who voted for Tim Wakefield and the two people who voted for Jason Varitek lose their votes.
PacifistAg
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Well, Schilling apparently got into a twitter slap fight with a parody Sydney Ponson account right after announcements were made, so I'm gonna guess he isn't going to keep his mouth shut for the next year. Right or wrong, this kind of nonsense is only hurting his chances.

Mathguy64
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If you think Yadier Molina is a HOFer, go take a look at his year by year stat lines. It should be fairly obvious. Something all of a sudden happened 6 years ago and the something else happened 3 years ago. Take out those 3 years and Yadier is Tim McCarver. Because Yadier is basically the equivalent of Tim McCarver. A very light hitting very good defensive catcher.
PacifistAg
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mathguy86 said:

If you think Yadier Molina is a HOFer, go take a look at his year by year stat lines. It should be fairly obvious. Something all of a sudden happened 6 years ago and the something else happened 3 years ago. Take out those 3 years and Yadier is Tim McCarver. Because Yadier is basically the equivalent of Tim McCarver. A very light hitting very good defensive catcher.
If he makes it, I don't think it's going to be due to his hitting. But, if he adds 2 more Gold Gloves, it's going to be hard to keep him out. 10 Gold Gloves at any position is impressive, especially catcher. He reminds me of Vizquel. I think Vizquel makes it eventually solely due to defense. Should they? I don't think I'd ever vote for them, but I expect many will.
jkag89
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Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mike Mussina
Vladimir Guerrero
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Chipper Jones
Fred McGriff, a hold over that I did not include this year. MLB Network made a good argument that if we're not going to hold against suspected PED users, we also should not hold it against those players almost everyone believes were clean yet did not put up the monster numbers of the era.
Trevor Hoffman

Edgar Martinez, if I can get over my anti-DH bias.
Farmer1906
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Chipper & Thome are the only 2 I vote in from the new group at first blush. I need to look at the #s. I enjoyed Rolen's play at 3rd and who doesn't love Jones in CF, but neither were elite enough offensively for a long enough time I don't think.
Mathguy64
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Bonds
Clemens
Chipper
Thome (in 2002 he finished 7th in the MVP. He should have been 1st, maybe 2nd. His OPS was 1.11 and OPS+ almost 200 that year. That is rarified air there. Thats what happens when you play in Cleveland)
Vlad
Edgar
McGriff (Not voting for him is borderline criminal. Go look at his stats. Its crazy how good and consistent they were for so long).
Hoffman
Wagner

ManRam - I just cant do it. Best right handed hitter of his generation. Busted not once but twice. If you are that stupid to get caught there should be some form of penalty.
PacifistAg
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mathguy86 said:


McGriff (Not voting for him is borderline criminal. Go look at his stats. Its crazy how good and consistent they were for so long).
Absolutely agree. If not for the strike in 1994, he easily reaches 500 HR and would already have a plaque in Cooperstown. Sadly, next year is his final year on the ballot, although I am confident the veteran's committee will add him in due time. He has to be one of the most underappreciated players, along w/ Walker, that I've seen in a long time.
Buck Compton
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My ballot for next year:
McGriff
Clemens
Bonds
Vlad
Wagner
Hoffman
Chipper
Thome

  • I can't vote for Wagner/Hoffman without the other. I can't see the justification, given that Wagner is better than Hoffman in every category except for volume of saves (a very subjective stat). Wagner was without a doubt more dominating and intimidating as a pitcher.
  • I don't care about the off the field stuff, but Schilling just didn't do enough early in his career to justify HOF. If he had emerged 2-3 seasons earlier, he probably gets in.
  • Chipper and Thome are no-brainers to me. I'm not going to penalize the era for the PEDs, and Clemens and Bonds were both borderline before they started using. You simply can't leave them out, especially the all-tme home runs leader.
  • McGriff reminds me a lot of Bagwell's numbers, with less of a peak, but also less of a drop off.
  • I'm not holding DH against Martinez, but if you're not going to field, you sure as hell better be truly elite at batting (a la Ortiz), and while I think he was really good (great OBP & OPS, lower HRs, lower RBIs, etc.). Not a single one of the BR similar batters are in the HOF. He was never truly a feared hitter, which is what you have to be as a DH.
  • Larry Walker falls squarely in the Hall of Very Good, especially given where he played most of his career (and posted his six highest OPS years). His Home/Away splits are brutal.
  • Kent wasn't well rounded enough, though probably the best power-hitting 2B of all-time. If someone like Vizquel ends up getting in, then I would flip a vote like this to yes.
  • Sheffield was the one I battled with the most. He played 22 seasons to accumulate stats, but was never really in the conversation as the best in the league. I just don't see him as a HOF-er, but won't fault someone that votes for him.
Buck Compton
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I will set up a poll next year, where anyone on TexAgs/Friends/Family can submit their ballot. It'll be interesting to see the results and who we as a group would elect.
Farmer1906
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Chipper: IN
8x AS, 1x MVP, 1 Batting Title, 2x SS
2726 hits, 468 HR, 1623 RBI, .930 Career OPS
#6 WAR for 3rd baseman, #9 wRC+ for 3rd baseman

Thome IN
5x AS, 1x SS
2328 hits, 612 HR (#7 all time), 1699 RBI, .956 Career OPS
#14 WAR for 1st baseman, #17 wRC+ for 1st baseman

Vizquel OUT
Not nearly good enough on O to get serious consideration

Rolen OUT (hall of very good)
7x AS, 1x ROY, 1x SS, 8x GG
2077 hits, 316 HR, 1287 RBI, .855 Career OPS
#10 WAR for 3rd baseman, #24 wRC+ for 3rd baseman

Andruw OUT (another tough call, but he's HOVG)
5x AS, 10x GG
1933 hits, 434 HR, 1289 RBI, .823 Career OPS
#10 WAR for CF, #74 wRC+ for CF

Santana OUT (elite for ~9 years, just didn't do it long enough)
4x AS, 2x Cy Young, 1x Triple Crown
139-78 W/L, 3.20 ERA, 1.132 WHIP, 50.7 WAR
#134 WAR for SP
 
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