It was her...absolutely.

Every review you can read mentions killing Tatiana...and thats her.

She is in the credits for this episode as well.

And the reason she did it was because the undercover illegal operatives wouldn't and they were desperate.

It makes perfect sense actually.

And I think at least briefly it might distract them - she is pretty enough (and was wearing a wig) to maybe be the female suspect. Until the photos are developed and Stan IDs Philip.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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It was her...absolutely.

Every review you can read mentions killing Tatiana...and thats her.

She is in the credits for this episode as well.

And the reason she did it was because the undercover illegal operatives wouldn't and they were desperate.

It makes perfect sense actually.

And I think at least briefly it might distract them - she is pretty enough (and was wearing a wig) to maybe be the female suspect. Until the photos are developed and Stan IDs Philip.

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She worked in the embassy. That's official cover. The illegals were all NOCs. So she can't be an illegal.

aTmAg said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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It was her...absolutely.

Every review you can read mentions killing Tatiana...and thats her.

She is in the credits for this episode as well.

And the reason she did it was because the undercover illegal operatives wouldn't and they were desperate.

It makes perfect sense actually.

And I think at least briefly it might distract them - she is pretty enough (and was wearing a wig) to maybe be the female suspect. Until the photos are developed and Stan IDs Philip.

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She worked in the embassy. That's official cover. The illegals were all NOCs. So she can't be an illegal.

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They don't know her identity yet - I mean I'm gonna assume she wasn't dumb enough to carry her regular diplomatic papers and ID to a hit. Unless they know her by sight which I doubt.

It wouldn't take long though. I'm saying maybe just enough time for Elizabeth to escape scrutiny for a bit.

Why would Henry choose to go with them? "You lied to me but told Paige...and now you want me to leave America to go on the run with you? With 2 Russian spies?" I think he stays.

If Stan lives he'll have some explaining to do about how his secretary and neighbors (and wife?) are all Russian spies. I wonder if he ever learns that Phillip was "Clark".

That scene with Paige was amazing. Russel's forehead veins showed her strain...Paige realizing all E's lies and manipulation and control of Paige. It would be interesting to hear Paige's reaction to learning about Philip's other marriage.

I seem to remember that the FBI or CIA has the embassy permanently staked out. They'll know who she is.

DallasAggie97 said:

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I seem to remember that the FBI or CIA has the embassy permanently staked out. They'll know who she is.

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Someone will yes... that doesn't mean everyone does. And she was just a rando shot on the street - we don't even know how long until the Feds would be called in. Local police would get it first. People call the police they don't call the FBI except likely they would eventually because that negotiator was there but it might not be the first responders, etc.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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aTmAg said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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It was her...absolutely.

Every review you can read mentions killing Tatiana...and thats her.

She is in the credits for this episode as well.

And the reason she did it was because the undercover illegal operatives wouldn't and they were desperate.

It makes perfect sense actually.

And I think at least briefly it might distract them - she is pretty enough (and was wearing a wig) to maybe be the female suspect. Until the photos are developed and Stan IDs Philip.

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She worked in the embassy. That's official cover. The illegals were all NOCs. So she can't be an illegal.

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They don't know her identity yet - I mean I'm gonna assume she wasn't dumb enough to carry her regular diplomatic papers and ID to a hit. Unless they know her by sight which I doubt.

It wouldn't take long though. I'm saying maybe just enough time for Elizabeth to escape scrutiny for a bit.

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They know and track every person that goes in and out of the embassy. They should know her by sight.

DallasAggie97 said:

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Tatiana mentioned that she had not been promoted since the William operation went bust. She was likely ambitious and volunteered to prove her worth to the anti-Gorbachev side of the KGB.

So crazy that I was rooting for Elizabeth to succeed in this mission. I hate that B!

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I agree on her ambitions. I just don't think the FBI would think she was one of the illegals. It would be like Oleg getting killed while trying to shoot somebody. They know him too.


In fact, I think it might be a flaw in the show (or their plan) that they tried to kill him at all. Weren't they going to falsify his reports and make him out to be a traitor? If they kill him, that puts that whole thing into doubt. If they kill him with a Soviet embassy staff member, that's even worse. No way would the KGB make that call on their own even if he really was a traitor.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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DallasAggie97 said:

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I seem to remember that the FBI or CIA has the embassy permanently staked out. They'll know who she is.

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Someone will yes... that doesn't mean everyone does. And she was just a rando shot on the street - we don't even know how long until the Feds would be called in. Local police would get it first. People call the police they don't call the FBI except likely they would eventually because that negotiator was there but it might not be the first responders, etc.

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She had that special gun laying by her side (and the wig too). The FBI would be called right away.

I think the Center likely panicked and sent Tatiana to finish up E's mission.

Elizabeth would have likely gotten away with the hit if she had done it. Maybe Tatiana could have gotten away, too, if Elizabeth wasn't there.

You want a crazy theory..... just read this on Reddit........ and it's not entirely implausible.


If you look at Stan's actions from a different perspective and the timing of certain things.... Stan could be suspected as a rat for the Russians.

Quote:

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Consider:

• The Mr and Mrs Teacup operation is taking up a lot of time and yielding nothing but misinformation. They find one useful piece of data at which point they defect only to be killed on Stan's watch after he is brought back in to assist with their handling.
• Stan is brought back into the fold of the operation. The team was making great progress into the investigation of the illegals program. The Chicago operation promptly goes to **** after Stan is brought on board.
• When Stan is telling Aderholt his theory about the Jennings Aderholt gives him a critical 'look'. If Stan is under investigation trying to blame your good guy neighbor seems like a final desperate attempt to deflect blame.
• Aderholt then meets Agent Wolfe who pulls him out to talk privately (about what?). The two of them are later in the room watching Stan's interrogation with both the Russian priest and Oleg. Which person are they watching and evaluating?
• After Stan's initial interrogation of Oleg (where they have a cryptic exchange) an employee of the Russian Embassy (Tatiana) winds up dead in close proximity to a Russian diplomat. Very suspect timing if they connect that.
• The surveillance of Father Andrei goes wrong, it's almost like someone was tipped off. Who was in the room when we found out Father Andrei was being watched - Stan.
• Stan later meets with Oleg in private. This would absolutely be noted.
• Stan has been pushing to get his new wife a job in the FBI. If there is anything unusual/suspicious in her background it would definitely reflect back on Stan.
• Consider all the historical **** that went down when Stan was in the office to set back their investigation: bugging Gadd, Martha's defection, Mail Robots betrayal, murder of his partner, etc.

Would Stan taking the fall for all of the Jennings actions while they walk away scott free be too much???

As I said at the start unlikely but when you add it all up and sprinkle in some cold war paranoia it's not too much of a stretch to think that something is a little off with Stan.

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note - i took some liberties to edit a few statements in the theory above for clarity.


Crazy like I said but..... is it crazy enough that it might allow them to escape while they are investigating Stan? Does he go rogue on his own to get Philip and Elizabeth and that is further proof of his working for the Russians????

Now this is making me second guess Stans every move and Aderholts reactions to him.

Hmmmmm.

DallasAggie97 said:

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I think the Center likely panicked and sent Tatiana to finish up E's mission.

Elizabeth would have likely gotten away with the hit if she had done it. Maybe Tatiana could have gotten away, too, if Elizabeth wasn't there.

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I can see Tatiana being chosen (or volunteering) for the job, what I don't understand is how killing Nesterenko helps their cause. Unless they fake a car accident or something like that. But shooting him out in public?

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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You want a crazy theory..... just read this on Reddit........ and it's not entirely implausible.


If you look at Stan's actions from a different perspective and the timing of certain things.... Stan could be suspected as a rat for the Russians.

Quote:

---

Consider:

• The Mr and Mrs Teacup operation is taking up a lot of time and yielding nothing but misinformation. They find one useful piece of data at which point they defect only to be killed on Stan's watch after he is brought back in to assist with their handling.
• Stan is brought back into the fold of the operation. The team was making great progress into the investigation of the illegals program. The Chicago operation promptly goes to **** after Stan is brought on board.
• When Stan is telling Aderholt his theory about the Jennings Aderholt gives him a critical 'look'. If Stan is under investigation trying to blame your good guy neighbor seems like a final desperate attempt to deflect blame.
• Aderholt then meets Agent Wolfe who pulls him out to talk privately (about what?). The two of them are later in the room watching Stan's interrogation with both the Russian priest and Oleg. Which person are they watching and evaluating?
• After Stan's initial interrogation of Oleg (where they have a cryptic exchange) an employee of the Russian Embassy (Tatiana) winds up dead in close proximity to a Russian diplomat. Very suspect timing if they connect that.
• The surveillance of Father Andrei goes wrong, it's almost like someone was tipped off. Who was in the room when we found out Father Andrei was being watched - Stan.
• Stan later meets with Oleg in private. This would absolutely be noted.
• Stan has been pushing to get his new wife a job in the FBI. If there is anything unusual/suspicious in her background it would definitely reflect back on Stan.
• Consider all the historical **** that went down when Stan was in the office to set back their investigation: bugging Gadd, Martha's defection, Mail Robots betrayal, murder of his partner, etc.

Would Stan taking the fall for all of the Jennings actions while they walk away scott free be too much???

As I said at the start unlikely but when you add it all up and sprinkle in some cold war paranoia it's not too much of a stretch to think that something is a little off with Stan.

---

note - i took some liberties to edit a few statements in the theory above for clarity.


Crazy like I said but..... is it crazy enough that it might allow them to escape while they are investigating Stan? Does he go rogue on his own to get Philip and Elizabeth and that is further proof of his working for the Russians????

Now this is making me second guess Stans every move and Aderholts reactions to him.

Hmmmmm.

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If they suspected Stan they wouldn't give him access to to all that classified information. Unless the whole entire office floor was faked and they were all in on it. But that is a big deal. The Hanssen investigation was the most expensive CI operation in history I believe. The things that Stan would have been suspected of doing wouldn't be enough to go through all of that. Hanssen did grave damage over decades.

Perhaps but if they (maybe only Aderholt and the other guy) have only just begun to suspect him they can't just yank him off that would be suspicious too and blow the case... so they are watching him.

I don't believe it really... just I could see someone having suspicions at least based on that track record.

Does Stan send Oleg's message to the Soviets and get busted doing it?

DallasAggie97 said:

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Does Stan send Oleg's message to the Soviets and get busted doing it?

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there you go.... and then they look back at all of his previous activities and the timing of them.

that could work as far as getting him under scrutiny.

Then Aderholt recalls conversations that were odd and the timing of his joining operations, etc.

(Still a longshot but not entire implausible).

Yeah, it doesn't seem like a limb that his show would go out on, but it's certainly set up for Stan to end up a suspect and in trouble.

DannyDuberstein said:

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Yeah, it doesn't seem like a limb that his show would go out on, but it's certainly set up for Stan to end up a suspect and in trouble.

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Or being asked to retire like Gad was.

Another thought occurred to me now that I'm thinking from this perspective.

Aderholt gave Stan a really weird look when he said he had gone over to the Jennings snooping around. Could be enough to throw out any evidence found there as Stan could have planted it.

FancyKetchup14 said:

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Did anyone else notice the veins beginning to pop out of Elizabeth's head as she was talking to Paige?

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here you go.... amazing

The entire existence in point of Stan's wife still bothers me. It is one thing if she was just background window dressing for a couple seasons. But bringing up that whole sub-plot about her wanting to join the FBI and then not doing anything with it story-wise is just baffling.

SeattleAgJr said:

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The entire existence in point of Stan's wife still bothers me. It is one thing if she was just background window dressing for a couple seasons. But bringing up that whole sub-plot about her wanting to join the FBI and then not doing anything with it story-wise is just baffling.

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I'm 180 degrees the other way. It's more realistic to have 99% of people not involved in this stuff. I liked watching 24 as a popcorn TV show, but having everybody in their mother be in some sort of secret agreement with the bad guys got old and repetitive. I like this show much better because it's 100X more realistic.

It's funny is that the Chekhov's gun that is present in every other show taints my viewing of this show. When Elizabeth spent a good 30 seconds trying to get that huge painting in her car a week ago I was waiting for somebody to shoot at her or something. I was thinking, "why are they showing us this?" Sure enough, she was just putting it in her car like a normal person.

Maybe she's not a spy and she saves Stan from the illegals. She wanted to make a difference. Maybe that'll be how she's makes a difference.

Or maybe she'll just protect the illegals when Stan confronts them.

I can't wait for the finale! Get your popcorn ready!

Didn't Stan also threaten to go public with the fact that he killed a Russian diplomat if the CIA/FBI didn't stop trying to blackmail Oleg into working for them while he was back in the USSR? (They had a recording of Oleg ratting out a supposed Soviet defector to Stan, right?)

Yep.

That's why they laid off Oleg in Moscow.

Oleg decided to cooperate with the CIA because Oleg thought that Stan had ratted him out (hence, Oleg's hesitation at talking to Stan this season in the hotel.). Stan told Oleg that Stan had protected Oleg, but we aren't sure if Oleg believed Stan.

Wow, all those coincidences pile up against Stan when listed like that. Regardless, he loses his job when this is over. He had illegals living across the street and admitted to an illegal search of their house.

He kept his job when he killed Vlad.

Did the FBI have Andrei set up the meet with Phillip, or were they just watching Andrei and all the priests and he happened to meet up w Phillip? It looked to me that Andrei thought he was tipping off PHilip to the other priests talking to FBI, and didn't realize he was being followed. I could have missed something though.

Clarke95 said:

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Did the FBI have Andrei set up the meet with Phillip, or were they just watching Andrei and all the priests and he happened to meet up w Phillip? It looked to me that Andrei thought he was tipping off PHilip to the other priests talking to FBI, and didn't realize he was being followed. I could have missed something though.

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No he was just clueless.... he thought he was helping with the info about the Feds talking to people. But they were watching him is all.... it was not a setup working with them.

I wonder if they would have even taken Philip in or just tailed him. thy didn't know anything it was just someone Andre talked to.... until he ran of course.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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Clarke95 said:

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Did the FBI have Andrei set up the meet with Phillip, or were they just watching Andrei and all the priests and he happened to meet up w Phillip? It looked to me that Andrei thought he was tipping off PHilip to the other priests talking to FBI, and didn't realize he was being followed. I could have missed something though.

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No he was just clueless.... he thought he was helping with the info about the Feds talking to people. But they were watching him is all.... it was not a setup working with them.

I wonder if they would have even taken Philip in or just tailed him. thy didn't know anything it was just someone Andre talked to.... until he ran of course.

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They would have followed him as long as they could to get all of his contacts, patterns, etc. As soon as he started running, they knew he was onto them and would disappear if they didn't nab him.