gomerschlep said:I like Justified, but it was not better than The AmericansFancyKetchup14 said:
This show is probably in my top 5 drama's all-time...for comparison sake it's usually in this order:
1. The Sopranos (#2 Finale)
2. BB (#1 Finale)
3. The Wire (#5 Finale)
4. Justified (#3 Finale)
5. The Americans (#4 Finale)
Hwo cmoe?OldShadeOfBlue said:
This thread title bothers me every time I see it
gillom said:
This finale was great. I get those of you that wanted a 'shootout' of some sort being disappointed. In my opinion there was no need. The entire train scene may be one of the best television sequences I've ever seen. Elizabeth's face pressed to the glass from the inside looking out was perfect. I could go into detail on multiple areas but I'll just leave it at the fact I loved it.
ksis my assOldShadeOfBlue said:
This thread title bothers me every time I see it
aTmAg said:
For reference:
I wouldn't put The Sopranos finale in the same breath as The Americans. The Sopranos finale was a cop-out and excused as Rorschach test. They avoided making tough decisions about what to do with their characters. The American writers actually made the tough choices and put them on screen. The reason they didn't free Oleg is because Oleg wouldn't be freed. Not until an exchange years later. The reason Renee wasn't outed one way or another was not because the writers were avoiding a tough decision (it would have been easy and "rewarding" to out her), they were making the tough decision. They wanted to put us in the same tough position Stan was in. The more time passes, the higher I place that finale on the list of all time greats.Bunbury said:
I'm definitely noticing the difference of what an ending like this show (or The Sopranos) gives the viewer, versus one like Breaking Bad. Breaking Bad was amazing, but also gave the audience exactly what they wanted.
The showrunners' interviews make it very clear they want the show to be a Rorschach test of sorts, where they provide some details but want the viewer to implant their interpretation into the events. I too was initially flummoxed by the ending, expecting more payoff on certain things, but the moments and scenes have lingered in my thoughts far more than had they delivered final closure on the entire show. There is so much to consider and think about, but also a perfect point for the show to end.
Philip Jennings is an all-time great character, his confession to Stan about his life being the joke, getting emotional when mentioning Henry, and signing off with his EST testimony was perfect.
If anything, she would be disappointed that Soviet assets were compromised if she were Soviet. That is a huge blow to the Soviet intel machine.DallasAggie97 said:
I watched it again last night. It was more powerful this time, even when I knew what would happen
I did notice how Rene stared at the Jennings' house after Stan left. Was it a look of accomplishment? Satisfaction that she may have helped protect Soviet assets?
Not the ending I was expecting, but one that I love more and more.
I think the Sopranos ending was a copout by the fact that the writers took the easy way out. If David Chase said, "he is dead, he just didn't see it coming." then I would be fully on board. But instead Chase spouts this, "Tony's not dead, and he's not alive, and neither of those things is the point." WTF?expresswrittenconsent said:
The Sopranos ending wasn't a copout, but the creator hated the character and hated that fans didn't feel the same way. So the ending was intentionally like a dose of yucky medicine.
Breaking Bad went 180 the other direction. Vince loved the fans so much he created a prequel spinoff, he loved the fans so much he nearly ruined the best show of all time with that 3 ending BS over the final 3 episodes. Remote control nazi killing car? GTFO here.
I think we can assume that they showed everything important that Renee did, since they showed showed what everybody else was doing. That is why I assume that she did what we saw her do.. nothing.DallasAggie97 said:
I don't know.
Perhaps she was sent to make sure to alert the Center if she felt that Stan was getting close. That's essentially what Nina did. Stan never told her that he was about to catch the illegals. He was just very excited and told her that something big was about to happen.
Nina alerted Arkady, who got the message out. Nina's intel saved P&E in the first season.
Perhaps the Center liked having someone so close to their their adversary.
Either way, the Center would prefer them escape than getting caught.
aTmAg said:I think we can assume that they showed everything important that Renee did, since they showed showed what everybody else was doing. That is why I assume that she did what we saw her do.. nothing.DallasAggie97 said:
I don't know.
Perhaps she was sent to make sure to alert the Center if she felt that Stan was getting close. That's essentially what Nina did. Stan never told her that he was about to catch the illegals. He was just very excited and told her that something big was about to happen.
Nina alerted Arkady, who got the message out. Nina's intel saved P&E in the first season.
Perhaps the Center liked having someone so close to their their adversary.
Either way, the Center would prefer them escape than getting caught.
If she had helped them escape by getting a car or something, then I can see her being satisfied. But just watching 2 important assets get outed wouldn't be something to be satisfied about based on what we saw her doing.
I agree. It was completely intentional for them to leave that hanging. Unlike the sopranos, I think it's brilliant in hindsight. I think your point is exactly what they meant to get across.Zombie Jon Snow said:aTmAg said:I think we can assume that they showed everything important that Renee did, since they showed showed what everybody else was doing. That is why I assume that she did what we saw her do.. nothing.DallasAggie97 said:
I don't know.
Perhaps she was sent to make sure to alert the Center if she felt that Stan was getting close. That's essentially what Nina did. Stan never told her that he was about to catch the illegals. He was just very excited and told her that something big was about to happen.
Nina alerted Arkady, who got the message out. Nina's intel saved P&E in the first season.
Perhaps the Center liked having someone so close to their their adversary.
Either way, the Center would prefer them escape than getting caught.
If she had helped them escape by getting a car or something, then I can see her being satisfied. But just watching 2 important assets get outed wouldn't be something to be satisfied about based on what we saw her doing.
I think the subtle point about Renee was that you never knew and you might never know. It is kind of a Sopranos-esque in that you never know when your time may come. Also for Stan he was never sure about his neighbors until the end but that's the point you'll also never really know about Renee. she could be or she could not be and her behavior could fit perfectly well with either being true. It's intentionally vague so that we feel what Stan felt all along....you never know where they are hiding among us.
I was convinced that she was KGB when she convinced Stan to stay in the FBI and she was applying for a minor job at the FBI herself. But then I was convinced otherwise when he left the intel group and she stuck with him for years. It's not like Stan was blabbing about his work to her. That's an expensive operation to fund without getting any fruit from it. They gave up quickly on the mail robot bug. I doubt they would stick with her operation for all that time. Assets with perfect American accents are too valuable to waste on shacking with a dude in case he happens to talk about work. So now I doubt it. I think she was put there specifically to add doubt for the viewer.Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Yeah, that said, they left us enough crumbs for the she was KGB camp.
She was suspect from the get-go. They just happened to meet a the gym...ok.
Stan was a high value target for the KGB. They just lucked into it when Stan happened to move in across from the Jennings who were already in the hood.
Of course the KGB, when finding this out, put a plan in motion to get someone on Stan.
Who knows, Stan's divorce may have been helped along by a KGB operation in order to clear the way for Renee.
The soviets were executing long term plans the entire show. It stands to reason that she was KGB and the only people that knew were in the Center. Anyone else locally knowing her status could potentially expose her at some point.
She was one of them for sure. If not, why was there even such an innocuous character?
the creators have said this. the actress would ask them during season 5 or whenever "am i a spy?" and they intentionally never gave her instruction one way or another. for the final scene she apparently came up with "the look" herself and they kept it because it perfectly left the viewer wondering.aTmAg said:I was convinced that she was KGB when she convinced Stan to stay in the FBI and she was applying for a minor job at the FBI herself. But then I was convinced otherwise when he left the intel group and she stuck with him for years. It's not like Stan was blabbing about his work to her. That's an expensive operation to fund without getting any fruit from it. They gave up quickly on the mail robot bug. I doubt they would stick with her operation for all that time. Assets with perfect American accents are too valuable to waste on shacking with a dude in case he happens to talk about work. So now I doubt it. I think she was put there specifically to add doubt for the viewer.Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Yeah, that said, they left us enough crumbs for the she was KGB camp.
She was suspect from the get-go. They just happened to meet a the gym...ok.
Stan was a high value target for the KGB. They just lucked into it when Stan happened to move in across from the Jennings who were already in the hood.
Of course the KGB, when finding this out, put a plan in motion to get someone on Stan.
Who knows, Stan's divorce may have been helped along by a KGB operation in order to clear the way for Renee.
The soviets were executing long term plans the entire show. It stands to reason that she was KGB and the only people that knew were in the Center. Anyone else locally knowing her status could potentially expose her at some point.
She was one of them for sure. If not, why was there even such an innocuous character?
