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*** THE LAST OF US *** (Non-Gamer Thread)

354,183 Views | 3057 Replies | Last: 3 mo ago by BadMoonRisin
jokershady
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In reply to Capstone • 12:33p, 4/21/25
AG
Quote:
=CapstoneOn a side note - the game developer has not ruled out a TLoU 3. Concept and storyline is there, just not sure if they want to go through with it. Ironic that the last seasons of GoT were produced without Martin's books being finished (not sure they ever will) and now TLoU is green lit for a season 3 - without the game creator's content. Didn't go well for GoT/HBO.


Youre comparing apples to oranges.

The second game is being broken up into two seasons. It was a big game. So season 3 for TLoU on HBO is still part of the second game.

A third installment for TLoU has pretty much been ruled out by Druckman. Only thing that could make it happen in my eyes is seasons 2 and 3 fornthyy it s show are epic and only then he decides to make a third.
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Lathspell
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1:14p, 4/21/25
AG
As with many others, the Joel death was spoiled for me over a year ago. Immediately after learning about it, I lost any interest I had in this show.

I have plenty of critiques for Pascal in real life, but he has the charisma and acting chops to lead a series like this. Not to mention, his character was written for us to truly care about him. Bella Ramsey's character portrayal is horrible. I give absolutely zero ****s for her character. The only redeeming part of her character in Season 1 came from Joel's point of view.

For me, characters are the most important part to a story. Yeah, there are bad plots or poor worldbuilding, but well written and acted characters can overcome many weaknesses in a story. Alternatively, I don't think anything can overcome bad characters. Without Joel's point of view, Bella Ramsey's character sucks.

Hell, his relationship with her is the ONLY reason I cheered for him to succeed in saving her. In fact, I would have cheered for her to die and have the fireflies possibly come up with a cure. The personal affect of that situation happening for Joel was the ONLY reason I cared about him saving her.

ETA: Also, I agree with the opinion of others i have seen... the chick who killed Joel would have been a much better casting for Ellie.
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fig96
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1:43p, 4/21/25
AG
Following up on the "why didn't they take Ellie" conversation, I'm watching the New Rockstars breakdown of ep 1 and when we first meet Elly and the other Fireflies after they've buried their dead it comes up in their conversation.

One of them mentions "I heard rumors about some kid he took that was…" and the doctor cuts her off saying something like "That isn't true because it isn't possible." So it sounds like Ellie and her potential immunity was something they likely didn't know anything about, at least not in any detail, so she wouldn't have been someone on their radar.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to fig96 • 1:51p, 4/21/25
AG
Makes sense. Also makes sense Joel would make no mention of Ellie, her immunity, or why he did what he did.
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spanky
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In reply to Lathspell • 1:59p, 4/21/25
AG
Haha, she's a kid raised with no parents in a post-apocalyptic world where everybody she's grown close to has been eaten or murdered. Oh, and a militant group wants to open up her brain…yeah, eff her for having baggage
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johnnyblaze36
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In reply to MW03 • 2:47p, 4/21/25
AG
MW03 said:
LB12Diamond said:
The line was fine.

It was a way for her to tell him that he's a POS bc of how he killed her dad who was defenseless.

And of course she was justified in doing the same to Joel bc of what he did to her dad.
Is that verbatim from the game? Someone could have tightened up that dialog. Maybe even just changing it around a little bit. "We don't kill people that can't defend themselves. And right now, that's you. But I am going to kill you. Because it doesn't matter if you have a code like me, there are just some things, everyone agrees, that are just f****** wrong, you lawless piece of s***."


And now, after typing it out, I can't help but hear her original quote in a Trump voice because of the "everyone agrees" tag.
This just made me legit lol.
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Lathspell
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In reply to spanky • 2:49p, 4/21/25
AG
What? I said nothing about "baggage".

She's a bad character with absolutely zero redeeming characteristics.
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TCTTS
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 3:15p, 4/21/25
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Makes sense. Also makes sense Joel would make no mention of Ellie, her immunity, or why he did what he did.

Again, as I explained earlier, it makes zero difference what Joel did or didn't tell them. I'm simply breaking down the situation logically...

- Who did Abby think her father was operating on? Why would any single operation require so many guards and so much firepower if not for someone/something incredibly important?

- Post-massacre, Abby spoke to the surviving nurses, seeing as they're the ones who described Joel's appearance to her. You're telling me the nurses didn't know who they were operating on and why? You're telling me that Abby didn't ask or care, if she somehow didn't already know?

- Never mind the fact that this girl was so important to Joel as well, that he basically committed genocide to save her.

After all of that, Abby & co weren't concerned with who this girl was? Because, IMO, there's no way the mystery/identity surrounding the girl wouldn't have been sky high.

Fast-forward to the lodge in last night's episode, and suddenly the situation is reversed. This random girl shows up out of nowhere to save Joel, clearly displaying a deep love/affection for him, and Abby & co don't even question whether she might be the girl who caused this entire situation in the first place? The girl who was the catalyst for all kinds of mystery, drama, and death five years prior?

It doesn't matter what the game did or didn't do. In conjunction with the aforementioned insanely ridiculous coincidence of Joel being the one guy Abby randomly ran into, basically in the middle of no where, outside the walls of the highly guarded town, I'm sorry, but by every measure it's all bad, unbelievably convenient writing.
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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to Diggity • 3:43p, 4/21/25
AG
Diggity said:
she didn't bug me last year (or as much in this episode). I think S02E01 was just a bad launching point for her character. I get that this was a setup for her later grief at having been a total B to Joel prior to his death.

Ditto.

But it's also exacerbated now because Kaitlyn Dever is so good.
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FL_Ag1998
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4:08p, 4/21/25
AG
Even as someone who has played the first game three full times and lists it as my fav game ever, I can acknowledge that
1) the coincidence of Abby's group just happening upon Joel outside the town
2) followed by Ellie then just happening to stumble upon them,
3) and then none of them realizing who Ellie was,
4) and then leaving Ellie alive to get her own revenge is just lazy writing. and

While typical of video games, it's not reflective of top tier TV show writing.
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OldArmy71
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4:13p, 4/21/25
AG
I do agree that the woman who plays Abby would have been a much, much better actress to play Ellie.

That would make a huge difference in this series, which as written and cast is much more centered in Joel than Ellie.

Joel is one of the great TV characters of all time.
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Ol Jock 99
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In reply to FL_Ag1998 • 4:21p, 4/21/25
AG
FL_Ag1998 said:
Even as someone who has played the first game three full times and lists it as my fav game ever, I can acknowledge that
1) the coincidence of Abby's group just happening upon Joel outside the town
2) followed by Ellie then just happening to stumble upon them,
3) and then none of them realizing who Ellie was,
4) and then leaving Ellie alive to get her own revenge is just lazy writing. and

While typical of video games, it's not reflective of top tier TV show writing.
Agree on 1 & 2, but that is so not atypical for action TV, it didn't move the needle at all for me.

Disagree on 3 & 4. As multiple people have stated, they have zero reason to know who Ellie is, and they made great pains to say "only Joel" will get hurt.
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tk for tu juan
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4:36p, 4/21/25
Last night would have been a series finale if Ellie and Dina were killed too. Maybe Joel should have killed the nurses and any remaining witnesses last season so there wouldn't even be a Season 2.
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TCTTS
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In reply to Ol Jock 99 • 4:39p, 4/21/25
AG
Ol Jock 99 said:
FL_Ag1998 said:
Even as someone who has played the first game three full times and lists it as my fav game ever, I can acknowledge that
1) the coincidence of Abby's group just happening upon Joel outside the town
2) followed by Ellie then just happening to stumble upon them,
3) and then none of them realizing who Ellie was,
4) and then leaving Ellie alive to get her own revenge is just lazy writing. and

While typical of video games, it's not reflective of top tier TV show writing.
Agree on 1 & 2, but that is so not atypical for action TV, it didn't move the needle at all for me.

Disagree on 3 & 4. As multiple people have stated, they have zero reason to know who Ellie is, and they made great pains to say "only Joel" will get hurt.

After everything I just laid out, I genuinely do not understand how anyone can come to this conclusion. At the very least they'd be highly curious, considering the series of events that led them to that moment.

Like, FL_Ag1998 alluded to, the plot needs Ellie to seek revenge, so the writers reverse engineered a forced/unlikely scenario in order to achieve it, which is the very definition of bad writing. There's really no other way to rationalize it.
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FL_Ag1998
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In reply to Ol Jock 99 • 4:42p, 4/21/25
AG
Ol Jock 99 said:
FL_Ag1998 said:
Even as someone who has played the first game three full times and lists it as my fav game ever, I can acknowledge that
1) the coincidence of Abby's group just happening upon Joel outside the town
2) followed by Ellie then just happening to stumble upon them,
3) and then none of them realizing who Ellie was,
4) and then leaving Ellie alive to get her own revenge is just lazy writing. and

While typical of video games, it's not reflective of top tier TV show writing.
Agree on 1 & 2, but that is so not atypical for action TV, it didn't move the needle at all for me.

Disagree on 3 & 4. As multiple people have stated, they have zero reason to know who Ellie is, and they made great pains to say "only Joel" will get hurt.


I said it was atypical for top tier TV writing, which is what this show is billed as.

Yes, I realize multiple people have posited why Abby might not know about Ellie, but so far I haven't seen a convincing argument. It all just comes across as excuses those posters are grasping at in order to justify Abby's group not knowing who Ellie was.

As TC pointed out there's multiple reasons why the O.R. nurses and Abby would have who known Ellie was, why they were operating on her, and why Joel came to save her. Logic plays out on this side, not on the side of "Abby had no clue about Ellie". And the fact that one of Abby's group starts to talk about Ellie, before being told to shut up, acknowledges that the information about Ellie was out there in some form.
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Ol Jock 99
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In reply to TCTTS • 4:44p, 4/21/25
AG
Quote:
After everything I just laid out, I genuinely do not understand how anyone can come to this conclusion. At the very least they'd be highly curious, considering the series of events that brought them there.
She was 19 when the attack happened. And was off with her friends doing who knows what. The head Firefly lady was VERY "needs to know" on stuff...which makes sense given her background.

You are caught up on "why didn't they waste Ellie"...well, why not Dina? Some age and gender, which is ABSOLUTE BEST CASE all they had to work with.

Simplest answer is the best: it has been 5 years since a teenager lost her dad in a horrific way. In those 5 years, she's had one goal---Kill Joel. Continuing her father's work isn't even part of the calculus.
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FL_Ag1998
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4:49p, 4/21/25
AG
How about this....

Yes, it's absolutely crucial that Ellie see Joel being killed with her own eyes. So if we needed them to be there together at that moment, why not just start out with them together out on patrol?

Have them out on patrol together, both awkwardly trying to reconnect personally, but not quite getting there. Then the snowstorm hits and they have no choice but to take shelter. Have the ski lodge be the only shelter out there (i.e. remove that other little town from the picture entirely). They stumble into the ski lodge and Abby's group. Abby's group lets them in at first not realizing who Joel is. Once Abby realizes that's Joel, she has to decide if she's going to follow through with her plan and become a killer. Maybe Abby even relaxes a little bit and starts to show second thoughts about her plan to kill Joel.

But then something Joel says triggers her, and she decides to follow through with it, killing Joel right in front of Ellie. And maybe they attempt to kill Ellie as well but the rage isn't there when attacking her, so she manages to survive her near-fatal wounds. And after recuperating somewhat, then she goes on her revenge tour.
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Ol Jock 99
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In reply to FL_Ag1998 • 4:50p, 4/21/25
AG
We can agree to disagree on the writing. I thought the story, even with the conveniences, was top notch. But can see why others might not. The most convenient thing to me hasn't even been mentioned...Tommy cooked the Bloater with his last ounce of gas.

I will die on the "of course they knew who Ellie was" hill however. No way did they.

BUT WHAT HAPPENED TO THE OTHER TWO HORSES?!?!?!1
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FL_Ag1998
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In reply to Ol Jock 99 • 4:53p, 4/21/25
AG
Ol Jock 99 said:
We can agree to disagree on the writing. I thought the story, even with the conveniences, was top notch. But can see why others might not. The most convenient thing to me hasn't even been mentioned...Tommy cooked the Bloater with his last ounce of gas.

I will die on the "of course they knew who Ellie was" hill however. No way did they.

BUT WHAT HAPPENED TO THE OTHER TWO HORSES?!?!?!1


Yeah, my son and I both rolled our eyes at that bloater dying right at Tommy's feet, lol.
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TCTTS
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In reply to Ol Jock 99 • 4:54p, 4/21/25
AG
Ol Jock 99 said:
Quote:
After everything I just laid out, I genuinely do not understand how anyone can come to this conclusion. At the very least they'd be highly curious, considering the series of events that brought them there.
She was 19 when the attack happened. And was off with her friends doing who knows what. The head Firefly lady was VERY "needs to know" on stuff...which makes sense given her background.

You are caught up on "why didn't they waste Ellie"...well, why not Dina? Some age and gender, which is ABSOLUTE BEST CASE all they had to work with.

Simplest answer is the best: it has been 5 years since a teenager lost her dad in a horrific way. In those 5 years, she's had one goal---Kill Joel. Continuing her father's work isn't even part of the calculus.

"Continuing her father's work" isn't just some random pet project.

It's SAVING HUMANITY.

I'm sorry, but there's NO WAY any of these people would just be like, "Eh, no thanks" to having some semblance of relatively normal life again.

There's also NO WAY they wouldn't have inquired about or tried to figure out who the hell her father was operating on and why, or why some man named Joel brutally/expertly murdered multiple people to save her.

It takes all kinds of pretzel logic to explain any of that away.
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FL_Ag1998
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4:57p, 4/21/25
AG
All I know is that I'm rewatching Andor season one right now and that show is a masterclass in slowly and realistically building up why a character would decide to give his life for a cause.
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Ol Jock 99
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In reply to TCTTS • 5:01p, 4/21/25
AG
Quote:
It takes all kinds of pretzel logic to explain any of that away.
She was a kid and didn't know what he was doing.

Hell, it is highly likely the nurses didn't know exactly what was going on.

Trauma messes with peoples' heads.

It takes a lot more shark jumping to think a bunch of kids who weren't there had any clue what was happening and why.

I will defend this hill!
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to TCTTS • 5:02p, 4/21/25
AG
All the people who were dedicated to that goal are dead. Those two nurses were the only survivors, who likely didn't even have the full info themselves.

And even if they did, who's to say their tiny ragtag group of remaining fireflies has access to a surgeon or vaccine experts to continue the work.

You are getting way too aTm about this, dude.
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MW03
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5:02p, 4/21/25
AG
Real quick aside:

HBO pulled a full on Stephen King before last night even started. They ran out a whole promo called "It just hits you. Different" based on killing of primary/important/beloved characters in iconic shows and iconic moments.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DIllJe3q5lc/

When it came on last night, I watched it thinking "Wow. That's pretty cool." In retrospect, it was cold-blooded.

Here's the copy for the beginning.
Quote:
No on asked for this ending.

No one's ever said, "Here's my money. Take my knife, and please, sir, make it hurt."

Most people don't think, "I want my hopes dashed, my Monday morning shot, or my dreams crushed."

And then the ****ers ended it with Ellie storming out in season one and getting hugged by Joel saying "I got you." Just brutal in retrospect.
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fig96
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 5:09p, 4/21/25
AG
And, as I mentioned earlier, the characters were discussing literally have a conversation clarifying that they didn't know what was going on with Ellie.

Is it odd they didn't ask, had no idea, etc? Maybe, but it also could have been something being kept so under wraps that no one outside the immediately involved personnel knew the full story.

Either way not something that bothers me enough to affect my enjoyment of the show.
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TCTTS
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In reply to fig96 • 5:17p, 4/21/25
AG
I hear you.

My main problem is that it was a convenience on top of an already massive coincidence. It was an episode that simply showed far too much story scaffolding, all in service of needing Ellie to seek revenge while, in the process, also being out-of-no-where, over-the-top cruel for what felt like nothing more than shallow, shock value points.

But whatever.

I'll quit harping on it.
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Ol Jock 99
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5:20p, 4/21/25
AG
Flashback to Firefly Headquarters SLC:

Marlene: Hey everyone, can I have your attention? This is Ellie! She's 14 years old, short with brown hair, has a little scar, and is my best friend's daughter. Everyone say 'Hi Ellie!'!!

Everyone: Hi Ellie

Marlene: Now Doc So&so is going to kill her in a Hail Mary attempt to save humanity. Bye bye Ellie!

Everyone: Awwwww....bye Ellie!
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Brian Earl Spilner
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5:22p, 4/21/25
AG
Speaking of over-the-top cruel...



Pedro seems to have a niche.
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TCTTS
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In reply to Ol Jock 99 • 5:31p, 4/21/25
AG
Ol Jock 99 said:
Flashback to Firefly Headquarters SLC:

Marlene: Hey everyone, can I have your attention? This is Ellie! She's 14 years old, short with brown hair, has a little scar, and is my best friend's daughter. Everyone say 'Hi Ellie!'!!

Everyone: Hi Ellie

Marlene: Now Doc So&so is going to kill her in a Hail Mary attempt to save humanity. Bye bye Ellie!

Everyone: Awwwww....bye Ellie!

I can easily make the alternate scenario sound just as stupid.

That said, if anyone, the daughter of the doctor could/would have inside info and, again, they would have at least known that a massively important girl was being operated on for some massively important reason, one that was highly and obviously important to Joel as well.

For Abby to not even consider that the girl trying to save Joel was the same girl that caused this whole mess in the first place is, objectively, eye-rollingly bad/convenient writing.

(Okay for real, shutting up now.)
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Dro07
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In reply to MW03 • 5:37p, 4/21/25
AG
MW03 said:
Real quick aside:

HBO pulled a full on Stephen King before last night even started. They ran out a whole promo called "It just hits you. Different" based on killing of primary/important/beloved characters in iconic shows and iconic moments.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DIllJe3q5lc/

When it came on last night, I watched it thinking "Wow. That's pretty cool." In retrospect, it was cold-blooded.

Here's the copy for the beginning.
Quote:
No on asked for this ending.

No one's ever said, "Here's my money. Take my knife, and please, sir, make it hurt."

Most people don't think, "I want my hopes dashed, my Monday morning shot, or my dreams crushed."

And then the ****ers ended it with Ellie storming out in season one and getting hugged by Joel saying "I got you." Just brutal in retrospect.


Thought the same thing. I saw that and was thinking… great he is dead
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Ol Jock 99
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In reply to TCTTS • 5:38p, 4/21/25
AG
Quote:
For Abby to not even consider that the girl trying to save Joel was the same girl that caused this whole mess in the first place is, objectively, eye-rollingly bad/convenient writing.
While I could argue the doc/daughter part (my wife is a doctor...doctors don't talk to family about stuff...especially not "I'm gonna kill this kid that our leader brought me" stuff), I'll go here instead:

Why not Dina? To Abby and the other revenge kids, assuming they know (they didn't, but let's assume), Dina 100% fits the bill. Young. Female. With Joel. Check check check.
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TCTTS
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In reply to Ol Jock 99 • 5:49p, 4/21/25
AG
That only adds to my case. That's TWO girls they left behind, either one of which could have been the girl responsible for this entire mess in the first place. The reason I'm focusing on Ellie, though, is because of how much she fought for and clearly showed love for Joel in the moment. Joel killed to save her, she was willing to kill to save him.

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tk for tu juan
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6:16p, 4/21/25
Why didn't Obi-Wan just finish off legless, armless Anakin and save the galaxy a whole lot of trouble?
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to TCTTS • 6:39p, 4/21/25
AG
Quote:
(Okay for real, shutting up now.)


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TCTTS
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 7:02p, 4/21/25
AG
I'm going to answer questions when asked directly. Otherwise, I'm not continuing the conversation on my own.
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