One of the most frustrating things about the Babbit shooting is that if this exact circumstance happened with a local police officer, at minimum this would be sent to the grand jury for prosecution. Depending on the location the officer would certainly at least be indicted, fired, and be held to account for this.
But since he's a federal officer there's almost no accountability. Are you telling me he had no alternative to deadly force in that situation? Please.

HoldMyBeer said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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TheEternalOptimist said:

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Ashli Babbitt is an American hero who was assassinated by the deep state because of her politics.

Period.

Her killer should be criminally prosecuted.

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This is so silly. She's as much of a hero as George Floyd.

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I'll look forward to the murals and statues. But not holding my breath because she was the wrong pigment.

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I see what you did there...

flown-the-coop said:

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If you come home and find them sleeping Goldilocks style in your just right bed… can you shoot them? Asking for a furry friend of mine.

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It becomes closer to justified, but depends on what other facts are involved?

If you come home and find the door has been kicked in or windows smashed for entry, then you going to get the presumption of reasonableness under Texas Penal Code 9.32(b)(1)(A).


Of course, if you come home that night and find all your porridge has been eaten, then you get into justification under 9.42.

Im Gipper said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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If you come home and find them sleeping Goldilocks style in your just right bed… can you shoot them? Asking for a furry friend of mine.

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It becomes closer to justified, but depends on what other facts are involved?

If you come home and find the door has been kicked in or windows smashed for entry, then you going to get the presumption of reasonableness under Texas Penal Code 9.32(b)(1)(A).


Of course, if you come home that night and find all your porridge has been eaten, then you get into justification under 9.42.

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Well done.

I grew up like many of us on here where treading on other people's land without permission assumed some risk of being shot or at least shot at.

And getting caught in someone else's home without permission usually resulted in the interrogation of a pine box regarding the circumstances for their presence in another's home.

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grew up like many of us on here where treading on other people's land without permission assumed some risk of being shot or at least shot at.

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Without a doubt you risk being shot at.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Horse***** She was murdered. The guy should at least stand before the Grand Jury.

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Trump and his justice department have almost four years to do that, don't they?

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There was furniture blocking the doorway, so clearly the message was 'here is where you stop, or we will stop you.' People were retreating because they saw the officer on the other side with the gun, yet she continued to go in through a window.

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Revisionist history much?

She is not blameless here and was shaking the door violently. The officer came from behind a doorway, walked up, pulled his weapon and fired, and then immediately retreated. There was no warning, no real brandishing of the gun. He lifted the weapon, fired, and fled.

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...happened.

The video shows that you are the one trying to revise history.

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Fair enough...haven't watched this for a number of years.

So the weapon was visible (at least to some) for roughly 8 seconds. Note however there were two uniformed officers immediately behind her (I thought they had left). Byrd actually chambers a round and then at the last second, steps forward and points the gun to the left. It was a completely reckless shot - he didn't even steady the gun as he fired. Could just as easily hit the two officers immediately behind her. And again, at that angle she likely never saw the weapon.

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Could just as easily hit the two officers immediately behind her. And again, at that angle she likely never saw the weapon.

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Nor did Byrd see any weapon on her. Not proportional to the threat presented. Graham v. Connor.

Aggie Jurist said:

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...happened.

The video shows that you are the one trying to revise history.

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Fair enough...haven't watched this for a number of years.

So the weapon was visible (at least to some) for roughly 8 seconds. Note however there were two uniformed officers immediately behind her (I thought they had left). Byrd actually chambers a round and then at the last second, steps forward and points the gun to the left. It was a completely reckless shot - he didn't even steady the gun as he fired. Could just as easily hit the two officers immediately behind her. And again, at that angle she likely never saw the weapon.

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Man....if only there was something she could have done.....

If only FBI sources had not been told to encourage more riotous behavior and instead urged folks to remain calm and peaceful.

If only Capitol police had not shot pepper balls and explosive tear gas canisters directly into crowds.

Yes, she contributed to her demise. But it doesn't excuse a bad shoot by Byrd.

Since Epstein killed himself, we aren't getting any "lists" and there is nothing more to see on the Trump assassination attempts, Bondi, Pirro and Patel should have plenty of time to go after Byrd under 18 USC 242

Anonymous Source said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Horse***** She was murdered. The guy should at least stand before the Grand Jury.

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As a former soldier, she should have known the consequences for entering a restricted area could include getting shot.

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I think she was completely in the wrong.

She was unarmed, not a threat, was let into the building, and had LEO behind her. Under NO circumstances should she have been shot.

As usual, you're correct.

I always go back to who gave the order to open an extremely complex lock on the nations capitol?

If we find that out, then you find out why it was necessary to murder an unarmed woman. There is a little bit of "imagine she's white" scenario here. Change the R to a D and the Capital cop would be in jail for a very long time.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Anonymous Source said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Horse***** She was murdered. The guy should at least stand before the Grand Jury.

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As a former soldier, she should have known the consequences for entering a restricted area could include getting shot.

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I think she was completely in the wrong.

She was unarmed, not a threat, was let into the building, and had LEO behind her. Under NO circumstances should she have been shot.

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The officer was supposed to know that as she came through the window?

I know...I know...just there to give out hugs.

You wouldn't give the same benefit of the doubt to someone coming through the window of your home.

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She was unarmed, not a threat, was let into the building, and had LEO behind her. Under NO circumstances should she have been shot.

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The officer was supposed to know that as she came through the window?

I know...I know...just there to give out hugs.

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Maybe he could have looked where he was shooting. I know that is a lot to ask. I also don't doubt for a second that Byrd knew they were going to let the crowds in that day. That was a conscious choice on someone's part.

I almost always give officers the benefit of the doubt. I am in this case also, as I believe the Grand Jury should review the case. Personally, I think he is a cold blooded murderer and lower than pond scum.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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She was unarmed, not a threat, was let into the building, and had LEO behind her. Under NO circumstances should she have been shot.

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The officer was supposed to know that as she came through the window?

I know...I know...just there to give out hugs.

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Maybe he could have looked where he was shooting. I know that is a lot to ask. I also don't doubt for a second that Byrd knew they were going to let the crowds in that day. That was a conscious choice on someone's part

I almost always give officers the benefit of the doubt. I am in this case also, as I believe the Grand Jury should review the case. Personally, I think he is a cold blooded murderer and lower than pond scum.

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One shot, one kill. Pretty good for someone not looking.
And even if he did know they were going to let them in, the door was barricaded. She had gone as far as they were intending to let her to go, if it was their intent to let any of them go anywhere. Go any further and, well....

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I almost always give officers the benefit of the doubt. I am in this case also, as I believe the Grand Jury should review the case. Personally, I think he is a cold blooded murderer and lower than pond scum.

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One shot, one kill. Pretty good for someone not looking.

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Lucky shot, for sure.

Murder. Worth gloating over.

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Ashley Babbitt was a traitor to this country.

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She had a political beef and she was trespassing. She had also served her country honorably.

She was in the wrong, to be sure. There is no law that justifies her murder in cold blood. Fascist countries do things like this.

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One shot, one kill. Pretty good for someone not looking.

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Pretty odd brag there. Watch the video he clearly didn't hit where he was aiming - insofar that he actually was aiming. Watching him chamber that round - he needed a whole lot more training. He struggled to chamber that round.

Then he lunges at his target as he shoots? A complete joke.

The police behind her were quite lucky not to be hit.

If Byrd had shot one of the cops, they would have charged Ashli Babbit with murder no doubt.

Aggie Jurist said:

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One shot, one kill. Pretty good for someone not looking.

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Pretty odd brag there. Watch the video he clearly didn't hit where he was aiming - insofar that he actually was aiming. Watching him chamber that round - he needed a whole lot more training. He struggled to chamber that round.

Then he lunges at his target as he shoots? A complete joke.

The police behind her were quite lucky not to be hit.

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Agree. Any other cop shooting with other cops in the line of fire would be severely reprimanded, even fired.

Forget the issue of whether Babbitt did something wrong or not. Remove that from the equation here. Cop involved excessive use of force cases almost always have a perp or suspect that is actively involved in committing a crime, usually a violent one but cops can still be prosecuted for excessive use of force.

The totality of the circumstances here, as per SCOTUS test, militate against Byrd's actions that day.

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She was not murdered. She was shot for attempting to insurrect the government.

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By your "logic" then it would have been OK for the police to kill all who entered.

What is "attempting to insurrection the government?" Our government was not in danger that day.

A guy called into a WBAP show this afternoon and said he would have unloaded his weapon, shooting everyone there.

You can see why unhinged lunatics have attempted to kill republicans, including the President. There is no morality left. Their government is their god. They do not believe in logic or reason, they demand their way. They'll stop at nothing, certainly not the Constitution, to get power.

Hullabaloonatic said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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I almost always give officers the benefit of the doubt. I am in this case also, as I believe the Grand Jury should review the case. Personally, I think he is a cold blooded murderer and lower than pond scum.

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One shot, one kill. Pretty good for someone not looking.

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Lucky shot, for sure.

Murder. Worth gloating over.

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Ashley Babbitt was a traitor to this country.

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She had a political beef and she was trespassing. She had also served her country honorably.

She was in the wrong, to be sure. There is no law that justifies her murder in cold blood. Fascist countries do things like this.

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She was not murdered. She was shot for attempting to insurrect the government.

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I have so many questions.

She's was taking America over all by herself. And she would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for that meddling Byrd.

Don't spend too much time with your questions.

Remember, we have several folks here in the 55% of Dems who find justification in assassinating Trump and Musk. It's not just those two, it's whomever thinks differently than them.

If you can't debate with logic and reason, and all your leaders actively support violence, then the results of that Rutgers survey shouldn't be a surprise.

Same thing here. Remember, nearly any kill is a righteous kill if they don't think properly.

Aggie Jurist said:

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She was not murdered. She was shot for attempting to insurrect the government.

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By your "logic" then it would have been OK for the police to kill all who entered.

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Yes, it quite likely would have.
USCP have the primary duty to protect US Congressman and Senators. This barricaded door was THE barricade between the protecties and the rioters. The rioters breeched the barricade. A resonable officer can reasonably believe the rioters would have come through and continued to come through, until there were enough to overwealm the police in that hall. A reasinable officer could reasonably believe that deadly force would be used against the senator, by the rioting crowd. Babbit was the first rioter through and after she was shot, the rest of the crowd , who had also been attempting to breaxh the door, stopped.

If the cops let her in, and then the next person and the next person, ans so on, they would have lost their ability to stop the crowd. If those rioters had caused harm to any senators, the cops would have been vilified for not doing their job.

For a fuller explanation to the other legal aspects, read the Legal Insurection article by Andrew Branca. Unfortunate circumstance, but legal. At a minimum, there is no way to prove murder beyond a reasonable doubt, unless you take it to minniapolis.

Ashley babbit = idiot

Hullabaloonatic said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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I almost always give officers the benefit of the doubt. I am in this case also, as I believe the Grand Jury should review the case. Personally, I think he is a cold blooded murderer and lower than pond scum.

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One shot, one kill. Pretty good for someone not looking.

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Lucky shot, for sure.

Murder. Worth gloating over.

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Ashley Babbitt was a traitor to this country.

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She had a political beef and she was trespassing. She had also served her country honorably.

She was in the wrong, to be sure. There is no law that justifies her murder in cold blood. Fascist countries do things like this.

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She was not murdered. She was shot for attempting to insurrect the government.

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LOLQUE'!?

She was absolutely in the wrong for breaking through a window in a place she shouldn't have been.

She was shot because the officer in question was a limpwrist with an itchy trigger finger. She was exactly zero threat to anyone, especially a large dude with a gun.