I don't care if you don't like Trump, this is a travesty

57,173 Views | 684 Replies | Last: 7 days ago by aggiehawg
Stat Monitor Repairman
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Antoninus said:

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

Going into a lingerie store dressing room with a stranger is a bad idea.
Remember that discussion about how "wrong facts" spread?

By the end of the day, ten posters will be utterly convinced that Carroll was an employee at Bergdorf and that Bergdorf was merely a lingerie shop.

Shame on you.


What was E Jean doing in the dressing room when the assault was alleged to have occurred?

She was shopping and Trump lured her in like little red riding hood?

What was her story about how this all went down?

aggiehawg
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AG
Stat Monitor Repairman said:

Antoninus said:

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

Going into a lingerie store dressing room with a stranger is a bad idea.
Remember that discussion about how "wrong facts" spread?

By the end of the day, ten posters will be utterly convinced that Carroll was an employee at Bergdorf and that Bergdorf was merely a lingerie shop.

Shame on you.


What was E Jean doing in the dressing room when the assault was alleged to have occurred?

She was shopping and Trump lured her in like little red riding hood?

What was her story about how this all went down?


Which version?

One version was she was leaving BG as Trump was coming in on the other side of the revolving door (at some points she said the door was a hinged door not revolving). Another version was he waved to her from across the street.

She claims he said, "You are that advice columnist, right?" And she said, "Your are that real estate guy, right?"

She said she was being very flirtatious with him and he asked her help to pick out a gift for "a girl". They looked at hats and handbags and then she claims Trump shouted out, "Lingerie!" or maybe it was "underwear!" She couldn't remember. But they took the escalators up to the sixth floor where the lingerie section was located.

She was still laughing and joking/flirting with him when he picked out a see-through what she called a "bodysuit" but was probably a teddy. She walked into the dressing room first and said he followed her and closed the door.
bobbranco
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Down on the knees each night saying prayers that its true.
bobbranco
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Crazy woman with crazy dreams.

aggiehawg
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bobbranco said:

Crazy woman with crazy dreams.


A review of her book about Hunter S. Thompson published in 1993.

Quote:

Even in decline, Thompson is a better prose stylist than his three Boswells. Drab Peter O. Whitmer, with When The Going Gets Weird: The Twisted Life and Times of Hunter S. Thompson, has the edge on drabber Paul Perry and his Fear and Loathing: The Strange and Terrible Saga of Hunter S. Thompson. And, oddly, E. Jean Carroll, a worse faux-porn writer than Erica Jong, has produced the most amusing book of the three, Hunter: The Strange and Savage Life of Hunter S. Thompson. Just skip the silly fantasy chapters about a fictional character's sexual torture by Thompson and flip to the crisply edited reminiscences of his friends they make the book as irresistible as Edie, the best-selling oral bio of Andy Warhol's starlet Ms. Sedgwick.
LINK
aggiehawg
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To bring this full circle. It was Erica Jong's daughter that had the party in which E. Jean was pitched the idea to sue Trump by George Conway.
We fixed the keg
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aggiehawg said:

To bring this full circle. It was Erica Jong's daughter that had the party in which E. Jean was pitched the idea to sue Trump by George Conway.
I know this is naive given court/judge/district, but appeals routes?

  • judges handling of voir dire
  • judges handling of cross examination
  • obviously hostile/bias by judge.
  • judge 'inventing' guidance/instructions to jury pool

Is there any play to go after the bogus charges and lack of evidence prior to the defamation litigation?

I will add, although anecdotal, outside of F16 there seams to be a decent tide of voices calling this out. Te liberals seem to keep stepping in it the harder they go after him. Time will tell.
aggiehawg
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Beats me. We have to wait and see what happens in the various appeals. This could go in different directions.
Stat Monitor Repairman
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Donald Trump and Mike Tyson.

Perhaps two of the greatest living Americans, and both found liable for sexual assault.

One of the victims was 18-year-old Desiree Washington which somehow found herself in Tyson's hotel room.

The other victim. A 52-year old woman who somehow found herself in a lingerie store dressing room with Donald Trump after meeting him going in through the out door.

In one case Tyson admits having consensual sex with the victim.

In the other case Trump claims he never met the woman in his life.

Tyson does 6-years in the pen.

Trump tagged for $83 million.
Ag with kids
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LMCane said:

93MarineHorn said:

MASAXET said:

aggiehawg said:

Judge repeatedly said that in front of the jury. Judge restricted Trump's testimony and ordered the jury to disregard any statement that went to his denying guilt of sexually assaulting her because the first jury found he had. But the judge went further and claimed the jury had found Trump digitally assaulted her when the jury verdict form did not say that.
That's vastly different from what you said. You said the judge disregarded the prior verdict and instructed the second jury that Trump had raped the plaintiff. That's just not true.

Of course the judge is not going to let Trump deny an issue in the second trial that had been found in the first trial. That's simple issue preclusion and wholly proper.
Man, I feel like such an outsider. Findings in civil trials become undeniable facts in future trials. A judge and jury of angry leftists gets to simply declare what is established and what is not, and henceforth what a defendant can argue. Great system we have here.
LMAO

please tell us your "better" judicial system than a jury of 12 peers determining guilt?

just having Trump give us a Truth Social post?!?!

but sure, American jurisprudence regarded as the single best criminal and civil system in the world for 250 years is horrendous because Orange God King keeps getting convicted and found guilty.

do you prefer North Korea, Russia, or Iranian courts?


Well, in many areas of the south 50-70 years ago, being a black man judged by a jury of 12 peers meant you were ****ed.

Impartial juries really have been and are a real thing.

There's a reason why change of venue exists, even it it's not granted very often.

BTW, I don't like Trump nor do I want him as POTUS again, so this is not a MAGA response...

TXAggie2011
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aggiehawg said:

2040huck said:

aggiehawg said:

Quote:

Also, the jury found proof of sexual abuse? Interesting.
But said no on the rape question. For all we know, the jury might have been thinking about his allegedly kissing her without her consent as the sexual abuse.
Uh,,,,it is
Duh.

The judge came up with the digital penetration as the reason that first jury voted yes on the sexual abuse count. That was not specified on the verdict form, nor do we know which of Carroll's accusations qualified as "sexual abuse" to them during their deliberations.
It doesn't really matter to the defamation case what the jury thought was "the" sexual assault. Trump's statements didn't say "I didn't touch her, I just kissed her" or offer any qualifications. They were a full stop denial of anything and everything; he said he never met her.

The first jury was instructed that they needed to find "that Mr. Trump raped or sexually abused or forcibly touched or otherwise sexually attacked Ms. Carroll" in order to find his 2022 statements were defamatory. Unless the jury didn't follow directions, they presumably determined he raped/abused/forcibly touched/ or sexually attacked Ms. Carroll when considering Trump's public denials.

If it is informative, Trump's team never argued the first jury didn't find he sexually assaulted Carroll. In fact, in fighting the collateral estoppel ruling, Trump's team argued over and over all the first jury did was determined Trump "sexually assaulted" Carroll. ("Sexually assaulted" being Trump's lawyers' own words from their brief.) Trump's team challenged the collateral estoppel by saying that while the jury found he sexually assaulted Carroll, they didn't determine his statements were made with malice.
HTownAg98
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Ag with kids said:

LMCane said:

93MarineHorn said:

MASAXET said:

aggiehawg said:

Judge repeatedly said that in front of the jury. Judge restricted Trump's testimony and ordered the jury to disregard any statement that went to his denying guilt of sexually assaulting her because the first jury found he had. But the judge went further and claimed the jury had found Trump digitally assaulted her when the jury verdict form did not say that.
That's vastly different from what you said. You said the judge disregarded the prior verdict and instructed the second jury that Trump had raped the plaintiff. That's just not true.

Of course the judge is not going to let Trump deny an issue in the second trial that had been found in the first trial. That's simple issue preclusion and wholly proper.
Man, I feel like such an outsider. Findings in civil trials become undeniable facts in future trials. A judge and jury of angry leftists gets to simply declare what is established and what is not, and henceforth what a defendant can argue. Great system we have here.
LMAO

please tell us your "better" judicial system than a jury of 12 peers determining guilt?

just having Trump give us a Truth Social post?!?!

but sure, American jurisprudence regarded as the single best criminal and civil system in the world for 250 years is horrendous because Orange God King keeps getting convicted and found guilty.

do you prefer North Korea, Russia, or Iranian courts?


Well, in many areas of the south 50-70 years ago, being a black man judged by a jury of 12 peers meant you were ****ed.

Impartial juries really have been and are a real thing.

There's a reason why change of venue exists, even it it's not granted very often.

BTW, I don't like Trump nor do I want him as POTUS again, so this is not a MAGA response...


People forget that Trump is the one that removed Carroll I to federal court, which was a smart move because there he at least had a semblance of a chance of getting it dismissed. That being said, he would have had a hard time getting the case out of New York because she lives in New York, and he claimed residency in New York at the time.
v1rotate92
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The number of libtards with Agtags is depressing. The enemy is among us and in our family...
Ag with kids
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HTownAg98 said:

Ag with kids said:

LMCane said:

93MarineHorn said:

MASAXET said:

aggiehawg said:

Judge repeatedly said that in front of the jury. Judge restricted Trump's testimony and ordered the jury to disregard any statement that went to his denying guilt of sexually assaulting her because the first jury found he had. But the judge went further and claimed the jury had found Trump digitally assaulted her when the jury verdict form did not say that.
That's vastly different from what you said. You said the judge disregarded the prior verdict and instructed the second jury that Trump had raped the plaintiff. That's just not true.

Of course the judge is not going to let Trump deny an issue in the second trial that had been found in the first trial. That's simple issue preclusion and wholly proper.
Man, I feel like such an outsider. Findings in civil trials become undeniable facts in future trials. A judge and jury of angry leftists gets to simply declare what is established and what is not, and henceforth what a defendant can argue. Great system we have here.
LMAO

please tell us your "better" judicial system than a jury of 12 peers determining guilt?

just having Trump give us a Truth Social post?!?!

but sure, American jurisprudence regarded as the single best criminal and civil system in the world for 250 years is horrendous because Orange God King keeps getting convicted and found guilty.

do you prefer North Korea, Russia, or Iranian courts?


Well, in many areas of the south 50-70 years ago, being a black man judged by a jury of 12 peers meant you were ****ed.

Impartial juries really have been and are a real thing.

There's a reason why change of venue exists, even it it's not granted very often.

BTW, I don't like Trump nor do I want him as POTUS again, so this is not a MAGA response...


People forget that Trump is the one that removed Carroll I to federal court, which was a smart move because there he at least had a semblance of a chance of getting it dismissed. That being said, he would have had a hard time getting the case out of New York because she lives in New York, and he claimed residency in New York at the time.
New York != New York City

Getting the case out of the city and ANYWHERE else in the state would have gotten it away from the hostile venue. The rest of NY is not deep dark blue.
jrdaustin
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HTownAg98 said:

Ag with kids said:

LMCane said:

93MarineHorn said:

MASAXET said:

aggiehawg said:

Judge repeatedly said that in front of the jury. Judge restricted Trump's testimony and ordered the jury to disregard any statement that went to his denying guilt of sexually assaulting her because the first jury found he had. But the judge went further and claimed the jury had found Trump digitally assaulted her when the jury verdict form did not say that.
That's vastly different from what you said. You said the judge disregarded the prior verdict and instructed the second jury that Trump had raped the plaintiff. That's just not true.

Of course the judge is not going to let Trump deny an issue in the second trial that had been found in the first trial. That's simple issue preclusion and wholly proper.
Man, I feel like such an outsider. Findings in civil trials become undeniable facts in future trials. A judge and jury of angry leftists gets to simply declare what is established and what is not, and henceforth what a defendant can argue. Great system we have here.
LMAO

please tell us your "better" judicial system than a jury of 12 peers determining guilt?

just having Trump give us a Truth Social post?!?!

but sure, American jurisprudence regarded as the single best criminal and civil system in the world for 250 years is horrendous because Orange God King keeps getting convicted and found guilty.

do you prefer North Korea, Russia, or Iranian courts?


Well, in many areas of the south 50-70 years ago, being a black man judged by a jury of 12 peers meant you were ****ed.

Impartial juries really have been and are a real thing.

There's a reason why change of venue exists, even it it's not granted very often.

BTW, I don't like Trump nor do I want him as POTUS again, so this is not a MAGA response...


People forget that Trump is the one that removed Carroll I to federal court, which was a smart move because there he at least had a semblance of a chance of getting it dismissed. That being said, he would have had a hard time getting the case out of New York because she lives in New York, and he claimed residency in New York at the time.
This is why we need some changes in the judicial system. Due to the extreme partisanship of certain venues, we now have a weaponized court system where allegations can be brought against political opponents with a virtual guarantee that you will win your case, because the judge as well as 85-90% of the jury pool knows the defendant, and hates him for political purposes.

Conversely, if you are now of the left, you can be accused in the exact same manner and be virtually guraranteed to be protected by the prosecutor, the court system, and the jury pool.

To make my point I'll use DC and Peter Navarro. He is now going to jail for defying the Jan 6th committee. Regardless of why, consider that defying a Congressional subpoena has happened 3 other times of note recently. Eric Holder, Lois Lerner, & Hunter Biden have all refused to answer Congressional questions, and the DOJ has declined to pursue. That's the venue. Plain & simple.

This is not justice. Though 'legal', it is far from ethical, and is destroying the faith in our justice system.

Dirty_Mike&the_boys
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How did the jury NOT answer question 3 and nonetheless proceed to answer question 4 in the affirmative?

"We're going to turn this red Prius into a soup kitchen!"
HTownAg98
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Foreverconservative said:

How did the jury NOT answer question 3 and nonetheless proceed to answer question 4 in the affirmative?


Read under Question 2.


Quote:

If you answered "Yes," skip to Question 4.

DannyDuberstein
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AG
Or answer 2 yes too
Dirty_Mike&the_boys
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Ok I guess the better question is more why, not what the form says. The lesser and included is the explanation. But I would have imagined the lesser question would come first, not second.

Anyhow, thanks as you point out the answer makes sense the way the questionnaire is worded. So I guess my beef is the questionnaire itself, it just comes across to me as a loaded deck. Civil law is such BS
"We're going to turn this red Prius into a soup kitchen!"
HTownAg98
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Foreverconservative said:

Ok I guess the better question is more why, not what the form says. The lesser and included is the explanation. But I would have imagined the lesser question would come first, not second.

Anyhow, thanks as you point out the answer makes sense the way the questionnaire is worded. So I guess my beef is the questionnaire itself, it just comes across to me as a loaded deck. Civil law is such BS
My guess is the lesser charges, for lack of a better word, include all of the elements of the charges below. For example, rape may include elements a, b, and c, sexual assault includes elements a and b, and inappropriate touching is element a. Once you satisfy one of the charges, you proceed to damages.
Dirty_Mike&the_boys
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Okay and I think Habba was in a no win situation, and some of y'all called her incompetent and numerous other things but looking at this case I don't give a sh** if he had Perry Mason representing him Kaplan stacked the deck against Trump and there was no winning in that courtroom. Kaplan should be disbarred and charged criminally for this level of Judicial misconduct.



Kaplan, in a footnote, concludes AS A MATTER OF FACT that Trump "raped" E. Jean Carroll.






Despite the jury LITERALLY coming to the opposite finding.



He then granted SUMMARY JUDGMENT such that Trump had only a "trial" on damages for denying the rape. Now correct me if I'm wrong but a Summary Judgement is only supposed to be granted when the Court believes no "material issue of fact" exists on the issue raised before the Court. Isn't it exceedingly rare for someone bringing a Defamation case to win a Summary Judgement motion? I mean CLEARLY there are facts in dispute, geez what a dumpster fire. And like I said before that whole jury questionnaire is worded like a word puzzle that can only come up with one result regardless. I think Trump has grounds for appeal of this.
"We're going to turn this red Prius into a soup kitchen!"
Dirty_Mike&the_boys
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HOW on earth could anyone take anything this woman said seriously. She's an absolute lunatic, it's like she lives in a fantasy land somewhere over the effing rainbow with the little people. in the video below, she said he put his ***** inside of her, but she told the jury it was his fingers? (Digitally penetrated).

This allegation first came out in June of 2019 in The New Yorker. They put her on the cover WEARING THE DRESS she said she was wearing that night with the caption "this is what I was wearing 23 years ago when Donald Trump attacked me in a Bergdorf Goodman dressing room."

Just check this video out. How anyone can honestly say they believe her is just CRAZY. It's crazy just like her.

I mean WTF is THIS???

"We're going to turn this red Prius into a soup kitchen!"
Antoninus
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Foreverconservative said:

Now correct me if I'm wrong but a Summary Judgement is only supposed to be granted when the Court believes no "material issue of fact" exists on the issue raised before the Court. Isn't it exceedingly rare for someone bringing a Defamation case to win a Summary Judgement motion?
Yes, but it is also "exceedingly rare" for the falsity of the defendant's statements to have already been litigated in prior proceedings, such that "res judicata" and "issue preclusion" come into play.
Quote:

I mean CLEARLY there are facts in dispute.
What "facts" are those? What relevant "facts" regarding the falsity of Trump's statements were not adjudicated in the earlier lawsuit?
Dirty_Mike&the_boys
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Antoninus said:

Foreverconservative said:

Now correct me if I'm wrong but a Summary Judgement is only supposed to be granted when the Court believes no "material issue of fact" exists on the issue raised before the Court. Isn't it exceedingly rare for someone bringing a Defamation case to win a Summary Judgement motion?
Yes, but it is also "exceedingly rare" for the falsity of the defendant's statements to have already been litigated in prior proceedings, such that "res judicata" and "issue preclusion" come into play.
Quote:

I mean CLEARLY there are facts in dispute.
What "facts" are those? What relevant "facts" regarding the falsity of Trump's statements were not adjudicated in the earlier lawsuit?
He denied he raped her and called her crazy, did I miss something? There was zero physical evidence, just her crazy assed testimony.

This is going to get overturned. Doesn't matter because mission accomplished since we've had several news cycles of the plaintiff and her lawyer (and their acolytes in the media) parading the $83M!!!! Verdict around.
"We're going to turn this red Prius into a soup kitchen!"
Antoninus
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Foreverconservative said:

Antoninus said:



What "facts" are those? What relevant "facts" regarding the falsity of Trump's statements were not adjudicated in the earlier lawsuit?
He denied he raped her and called her crazy, did I miss something? There was zero physical evidence, just her crazy assed testimony.
You clearly have (essentially) zero understanding of the civil justice system. In a perverse sort of way, it is rather impressive to see the way that you nonetheless express such strong opinions about it.
Quote:

This is going to get overturned.
No, it won't. As far as I can see, the only real chance of (even partial) appellate relief is that the AMOUNT of the punitive damages MIGHT get reduced by a few million dollars, such that they do not exceed 3x the compensatory damages, but even that seems unlikely.
Dirty_Mike&the_boys
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Antoninus said:

Foreverconservative said:

Antoninus said:



What "facts" are those? What relevant "facts" regarding the falsity of Trump's statements were not adjudicated in the earlier lawsuit?
He denied he raped her and called her crazy, did I miss something? There was zero physical evidence, just her crazy assed testimony.
You clearly have (essentially) zero understanding of the civil justice system. In a perverse sort of way, it is rather impressive to see the way that you nonetheless express such strong opinions about it.
Quote:

This is going to get overturned.
No, it won't. As far as I can see, the only real chance of (even partial) appellate relief is that the AMOUNT of the punitive damages MIGHT get reduced by a few million dollars, such that they do not exceed 3x the compensatory damages, but even that seems unlikely.
Your opinion of the level of my knowledge of civil law means squat to this case, but say as you wish. However even taking Kaplan's legal backflips at face value, the understanding of a term legally vs colloquially would absolutely be a fact issue, one again HOW did we get summary judgement? Seriously though I have a question, damages for defamation is compensation for damage to reputation. Trial 1 already found Carroll defamed and compensated. How can someone be defamed again with same set of facts? Res Judicata. She had already been vindicated right? I just have questions about this judicial quagmire. And I get it is "civil law" not "criminal law" but damn. And the conflicts of interests no one talks about with Kaplan the Carroll's attorney's is very curious. Kaplan has a mentor/mentee relationship with one of Carroll's primary attorneys and co-officiated the wedding of her other primary attorney. This shouldn't have gotten this far. And still there's that footnote that sticks out to me, the judge's finding of "fact" as being contrary to what the finder of fact decided is absolutely an appealable issue, regardless of the rest.
"We're going to turn this red Prius into a soup kitchen!"
eric76
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Foreverconservative said:

Trial 1 already found Carroll defamed and compensated. How can someone be defamed again with same set of facts? Res Judicata.


If you continue to defame someone after a trial which you lose, you should be free to defame them in whatever way you wish from then on? Is the continued defamation not actionable?
eric76
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Antoninus said:

No, it won't. As far as I can see, the only real chance of (even partial) appellate relief is that the AMOUNT of the punitive damages MIGHT get reduced by a few million dollars, such that they do not exceed 3x the compensatory damages, but even that seems unlikely.
Keep in mind that it was a state issue in a federal court because Trump had claimed immunity as it related to his official duties. Even though he later dropped the claim, it remained in federal court.

Since the remaining issues were New York state issues, not federal issues, shouldn't any limits on punitive damages be from the state? Does New York limit punitive damages to three times compensatory damages?
eric76
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Foreverconservative said:

Antoninus said:

Foreverconservative said:

Now correct me if I'm wrong but a Summary Judgement is only supposed to be granted when the Court believes no "material issue of fact" exists on the issue raised before the Court. Isn't it exceedingly rare for someone bringing a Defamation case to win a Summary Judgement motion?
Yes, but it is also "exceedingly rare" for the falsity of the defendant's statements to have already been litigated in prior proceedings, such that "res judicata" and "issue preclusion" come into play.
Quote:

I mean CLEARLY there are facts in dispute.
What "facts" are those? What relevant "facts" regarding the falsity of Trump's statements were not adjudicated in the earlier lawsuit?
He denied he raped her and called her crazy, did I miss something? There was zero physical evidence, just her crazy assed testimony.

This is going to get overturned. Doesn't matter because mission accomplished since we've had several news cycles of the plaintiff and her lawyer (and their acolytes in the media) parading the $83M!!!! Verdict around.
The question of whether or not he assaulted her was decided in the first trial. He had no right to litigate it again in the second trial.
jrdaustin
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eric76 said:

Foreverconservative said:

Trial 1 already found Carroll defamed and compensated. How can someone be defamed again with same set of facts? Res Judicata.

If you continue to defame someone after a trial which you lose, you should be free to defame them in whatever way you wish from then on? Is the continued defamation not actionable?
Honestly, if we're discussing damages, and assuming arguendo that defamation actually took place, once someone has been defamed, how can you defame them MORE? If the first defamation was cured by a $5 million verdict, how can a second statement defame to the tune of $18.3 Million?

At what point do words said do no damage, but are simply the ramblings of one who lost? Never? Each consecutive time he says something, the damage is WORSE?

Even in the most extreme of cases, I would think that a $15 million judgement would be the most one could hope for...Equal to 3x the original compensation for punitive damages.
aggiehawg
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Quote:

The question of whether or not he assaulted her was decided in the first trial. He had no right to litigate it again in the second trial.
Here's the problem though. Jury did not find he had raped her. But after that verdict she went on CNN and claimed again that he had raped her. Trump then countersues in June 2023 for defamation for her untruthful statements. But the judge dismisses it and the reason why is a doozy.

Quote:

Trump and his legal team claimed that the former magazine writer defamed him when she said that he raped her on CNN.

Carroll made these comments during an interview after she won one of her lawsuits against the former president in May. The jury in that case found Trump liable for battery and defamation. Jurors found he did sexually abuse the writer and defamed her when he denied her allegation. Carroll was awarded $5 million in damages.
Quote:

When Carroll was asked by CNN about the verdict finding Trump didn't rape her as defined under New York law she responded, "Oh, yes he did."

For that, Trump sued the writer back in June.
Quote:

And on Monday, federal Judge Lewis Kaplan said Carroll's statements repeating the claim that Trump had raped her were "substantially true" given the jury's verdict in that case.
Quote:

Judge Kaplan wrote in his dismissal that the jury in May established that "Mr. Trump 'raped her,' albeit digitally rather than with his *****."

"In fact, both acts constitute 'rape' in common parlance, its definition in some dictionaries, in some federal and state criminal statutes, and elsewhere," he wrote.

LINK

Other states' criminal statutes? What do they have to do with NY law?

Quote:

At the end of the two-week trial in Carroll II, on May 9, 2023, the jury deliberated for approximately two and a half hours. On the first count of battery, the jury was asked to evaluate whether Trump had, by a preponderance of the evidence, committed an ASA predicate sex offense, thereby reviving Carroll's claim. See C.P.L.R. 214-j. Consistent with the parties' proposals, the jury was presented with three possible ASA predicates under New York's criminal code: rape, sexual abuse, and forcible touching. Carroll II, ECF 174. The Court instructed the jury to address each predicate in that order until they found that Trump's conduct fit one of those offenses, if at all. Id. The jury answered "no" on rape and "yes" on sexual abuseand it awarded Carroll a total of $2.02 million in damages on that claim.
Quote:

As the Court instructed the Carroll II jury, under the New York Penal Law, rape requires proof that the defendant engaged in sexual intercourse with the victim and did so without the victim's consent by the use of forcible compulsion. Carroll II Trial Tr. at 1416. "Sexual intercourse" is defined as "any penetration, however slight, of the ***** into the vaginal opening." Id. at 1417. Sexual abuse, by contrast, similarly requires proof that the defendant subjected the victim to sexual contact and did so without the victim's consent by the use of forcible compulsion. Id. at 1418. "Sexual contact" is defined as "any touching of the sexual or other intimate parts of a person for the purpose of gratifying the sexual desire of either person." Id. "Sexual part" is defined as "an organ of human reproduction." Id.; see People v. Blodgett, 37 A.D.2d 1035, 1036 (3d Dep't 1971).
Those are from Carroll's own memorandum of law in support of her motion to dismiss his counterclaim.

LINK

There is a distinction between rape using a male sexual organ and using fingers which is sexual contact under the sexual abuse. See those words "by contrast"? That means there is a difference between the two under NY law.

Another bone of contention was that Carroll was somehow defamed when Trump called her a "Democratic operative." Now calling a staunch conservative Republican a "Democrat" might be offensive but is it really defamatory? Especially if it is true? Can there even be a question of her political agenda here? After her shaemless comments post the current verdict?

Her testimony and public statements were that she was not going to sue Trump. But then a meeting was set up by Erica Jong's daughter* and George Conway and he arrived armed with a power point presentation, the name of lawyer already on board and the financing by Reid Hoffman.

Yet the judge refused to allow evidence (even Reid's own tweet admitting he was funding her lawsuit specifically) to be presented on this disputed fact. That was in the trial that Tacopina tried. Was not allowed.

Lastly, the procedure ordered by the court to bifurcate the proceeding in order to set an issue preclusion a/k/a collateral estoppel for the second trial is shall we unusual. Liability and damages, if any, are almost always tried in the same civil case, particularly tort cases which is what defamation is, a tort. As is a claim under the Adult Survivors Act. Personal injury, i.e. a tort.

This was a set up from the get go. After Team Mueller was unsuccessful in baiting Trump into an obstruction charge, the Trump haters changed tactics and used a different approach and boy did it work. Just like clockwork almost like it was planned, didn't?

*Erica Jong was a soft porn writer in the early 70s. And I am not talking about bodice ripping romance novels, nor a Jackie Collins or Danielle Steel level of writer. And she and Carroll tended to write in same genre and are long term friends.

Antoninus
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Foreverconservative said:


Trial 1 already found Carroll defamed and compensated. How can someone be defamed again with same set of facts? Res Judicata. She had already been vindicated right?
For anything that he had said by the time of Trial-1, yes. But he kept running his mouth. Every time, he created a completely-new cause of action.
Antoninus
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eric76 said:

Antoninus said:

No, it won't. As far as I can see, the only real chance of (even partial) appellate relief is that the AMOUNT of the punitive damages MIGHT get reduced by a few million dollars, such that they do not exceed 3x the compensatory damages, but even that seems unlikely.
Keep in mind that it was a state issue in a federal court because Trump had claimed immunity as it related to his official duties. Even though he later dropped the claim, it remained in federal court.

Since the remaining issues were New York state issues, not federal issues, shouldn't any limits on punitive damages be from the state? Does New York limit punitive damages to three times compensatory damages?
No. New York does not, but I have seen some case law in which Federal courts sitting in New York have limited exemplaries to 3x compensatories. There was one case, as I recall, in which the Fed court allowed a puni award of 3.75x compensatories, and this award DOES fall within that benchmark, which is why I equivocated.
Antoninus
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jrdaustin said:

eric76 said:

Foreverconservative said:

Trial 1 already found Carroll defamed and compensated. How can someone be defamed again with same set of facts? Res Judicata.

If you continue to defame someone after a trial which you lose, you should be free to defame them in whatever way you wish from then on? Is the continued defamation not actionable?
Honestly, if we're discussing damages, and assuming arguendo that defamation actually took place, once someone has been defamed, how can you defame them MORE? If the first defamation was cured by a $5 million verdict, how can a second statement defame to the tune of $18.3 Million?

At what point do words said do no damage, but are simply the ramblings of one who lost? Never? Each consecutive time he says something, the damage is WORSE?
Were they different, more-hurtful words? Were the words disseminated more-widely? Did more people hear them? Lots of variables.
aggiehawg
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AG
Quote:

No. New York does not, but I have seen some case law in which Federal courts sitting in New York have limited exemplaries to 3x compensatories. There was one case, as I recall, in which the Fed court allowed a puni award of 3.75x compensatories, and this award DOES fall within that benchmark, which is why I equivocated.
Might I ask exactly how are "reputational repair" damages proven? As I understand them there is a cost for someone to rehabilitate someone's reputation? Primarily on social media? Are there elements? Is there a test courts apply to the type of evidence that is admissible?

I understand there was some "expert" who had never done "reputational repair" but she thought it would be "somewhere" between 7-12 million. That seems like a broad spread and just speculation with little underlying data in my view.
 
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