Fred was criminally poor today.

bagger05 said:

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Yeah. One of the best things from Man U this season is Pogba's play and today we saw VERY little of that.

Just don't think that Fred/Pogba is a good combination. I think Pogba combined with Matic from the Chelsea days would be great but it doesn't seem like Matic is that player anymore.

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Agree with this, but made even worse when Fred plays poorly. By doing so, Pogba can't get up the pitch in attack like he wants/needs to. He has to stay back a little more and that hurts the attack. Preaching to the choir, but United desperately need a solid 6 that will act as that midfield pivot, create more of a 4-1-4-1 and allow Pogba to slide up into that attacking role he is so good at. Just my amateur opinion.

That all said, I'll take the 3 points

Henderson / DeGea debate will be interesting this year. Early in the year but DeGea seems to be playing much better than last year.

So hoping someone can answer this objectively.

I only saw the highlight of the goal and the contact to the shin that was not called. The post game commentators were saying that last year that probably would have been overturned but do to some rule change this year it was not. What rule changed?

agsalaska said:

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So hoping someone can answer this objectively.

I only saw the highlight of the goal and the contact to the shin that was not called. The post game commentators were saying that last year that probably would have been overturned but do to some rule change this year it was not. What rule changed?

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Refs have been specifically instructed to let more things go.

Ref didn't see the contact and Neves didn't even act injured until he realized United had a chance. He looked at Mike Dean then went down.

Last year they would have gone to var and the minimal contact would have been enough to disallow a goal.

Furlock Bones said:

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agsalaska said:

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So hoping someone can answer this objectively.

I only saw the highlight of the goal and the contact to the shin that was not called. The post game commentators were saying that last year that probably would have been overturned but do to some rule change this year it was not. What rule changed?

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Refs have been specifically instructed to let more things go.

Ref didn't see the contact and Neves didn't even act injured until he realized United had a chance. He looked at Mike Dean then went down.

Last year they would have gone to var and the minimal contact would have been enough to disallow a goal.

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So basically just call less **** in the VAR booth. I am good with that.

It could have been called a foul if called live but wasn't so let it go.

Imagine replay in football calling every holding penalty. Glad they changed it.

Yep. United were hurt by the rule change against Southampton (Last year, VAR would have likely ruled that Bruno was fouled in the build up to their goal) but benefitted against Wolves. It's going to take some adjustment but overall, I think it will be a good change for the game as VAR had gotten out of control last year (in the EPL anyway).

yep, the EPL in their quest to get VAR right the first time really just cocked it up. watch MLS and see how much better it can be done.

The idea is to not re-referee the match via VAR. Yesterday, I am 99% certain Dean saw the play and said "meh". To me the Wolves player reacted like there was no contact then took two steps and decided to hobble like he thought "oh **** I better sell it". The one last week I am not certain Pawson saw. If he did it w2as a miss on his part. It was a foul. Last year, this year, any year. It was a charge from behind. But it wasnt worthy of a card and IMHO should not have been reviewed.

Highly recommend a read through this Twitter thread. He lays out all of the big calls/non-calls of the weekend.

It's your (Bank Holiday) Monday VAR thread, lots to cover today, including:

- Reece James red card / penalty
- Man United's winner / Man City's second
- Xhaka red
- Penalty to Norwich / Southampton
- Disallowed Norwich / Brentford goals

— Dale Johnson (@DaleJohnsonESPN) August 30, 2021

Count me in the group that didn't think it was a red on Reece James. I was clearly wrong but it still doesn't feel right.

The card is red all day long on Reece James. Hes standing on the goal line. Yes the ball hit his thigh and deflected to his arm. Thats fine. Up to this point its not a card or misconduct. But then the ball is hanging in the air and he deliberately took a swipe at it with his arm and batted it with his arm. Thats not fine. Thats a red card all day every day.

Dre_00 said:

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Count me in the group that didn't think it was a red on Reece James. I was clearly wrong but it still doesn't feel right.

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why do you think is not a red card? do you believe it was a handball? if so, do you think it denied a goal?

for me, the answer is yes to both questions. the rules state clearly that a handball denying a goal is a sending no matter where it happens on the pitch.

i don't think anyone can question that it denied the goal. as for the handball, it seems a clear handball to me especially given the rule change that hitting another part of the body does not negate the handball.

Mathguy64 said:

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The card is red all day long on Reece James. Hes standing on the goal line. Yes the ball hit his thigh and deflected to his arm. Thats fine. Up to this point its not a card or misconduct. But then the ball is hanging in the air and he deliberately took a swipe at it with his arm and batted it with his arm. Thats not fine. Thats a red card all day every day.

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In addition, I think he had his arm flexed out to the side to make himself bigger as well so I think I would have carded him even without the swipe.

Never forget Germany 2002.

I'm fine with his arm in the first part. Was it a little chicken wing? Yes but it's not crazy outside the normal silhouette of his body and it's a really hard call to sell. But the motion to bat the ball is a no brainer. Soccer has always said you cannot score with your arm/hand and it has always said you cannot intentionally stop a goal with your arm or hand. Scoring is an auto yellow and stopping a score is an auto red.

Daniel James to Leeds from Manchester United, done deal now confirmed and here we go! The agreement has been completed for €28m with add ons. Personal terms agreed few minutes ago too. 🔴🤝 #MUFC #LUFC

Medical tomorrow morning, official announcement soon. https://t.co/5yDeUuXvJX pic.twitter.com/IE18u7zUz5

— Fabrizio Romano (@FabrizioRomano) August 30, 2021

Although, supposedly Everton are trying to swoop in last minute with a 40m offer

Furlock Bones said:

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Dre_00 said:

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Count me in the group that didn't think it was a red on Reece James. I was clearly wrong but it still doesn't feel right.

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why do you think is not a red card? do you believe it was a handball? if so, do you think it denied a goal?

for me, the answer is yes to both questions. the rules state clearly that a handball denying a goal is a sending no matter where it happens on the pitch.

i don't think anyone can question that it denied the goal. as for the handball, it seems a clear handball to me especially given the rule change that hitting another part of the body does not negate the handball.

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Um...I said I initially thought it wasn't a red card but that I was clearly wrong. By the laws of the game, it was a red card.

My only point at the end about "not feeling right" was to say that the law seems harsh in that circumstance. I'm not sure how to make it better but that's how it feels to me when the ball ricochets off your leg and onto your arm and you get red carded.

Hopefully we can offload a few more players before the deadline

All I can say is that isn't why he got carded and sent off. He got sent off for then intentionally whacking it with his elbow. Once you make an intentional act to whack the ball like that you are done. He took one for the team to try and save a goal. The penalty is a PK and you get sent off. If he hadn't done that part there isn't a call to make.

Not sure how they did it but it's official. CR7 lives. Cavani is switching to 21 which is available now that Daniel James is gone. 21 is the number he wears with Uruguay.

Somewhere an EPL official has a very nice "bonus" check in their desk drawer.

I think it's tough to say it was intentional when the ball made secondary contact after hitting his thigh and did so .005 seconds after hitting his thigh. I don't think he had the where with all to plan all that out regardless of whether his arm was moving or not.

Not that any of the above matters because intent has nothing to do with it according to the rule book. And the fact that it hit his thigh first is meaningless. If the ball had ricocheted off his thigh and onto his hand while his arms were naturally hanging by his side and perfectly still, it still would have been a red card. I wasn't aware of that at the time but that's clearly what the rule book states.

James is off to Leeds for 25 million GBP + add ons. Obvious move with Ronaldo coming on. I think he'll do well at Leeds and United did well to get that much for him. Don't expect that money to be used today though.

Lingard is unlikely to move as West Ham just dropped 25 million on Nikola Vlasic. The man needs to go for his own sake and United need to shift him but alas...

And further reports indicate that there is little to no chance of a center mid today. Frustrating to say the least. A team so close to being legit title contenders and yet so far.

Dre_00 said:

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Lingard is unlikely to move as West Ham just dropped 25 million on Nikola Vlasic. The man needs to go for his own sake and United need to shift him but alas...

And further reports indicate that there is little to no chance of a center mid today. Frustrating to say the least. A team so close to being legit title contenders and yet so far.

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Frustrating bc there were options to be had. I know they didn't want to pay the money for Declan Rice, but Neves, Saul, and others I'm forgetting could have all been had, especially with McT sidelined for a bit. It was a glaring need to not make a legit run at some of these guys. It's like they got sidetracked by the shiny object in the room (Ronaldo)

And especially now that Saul is going to Chelsea on a 5m loan

There are reports that Ole nixed a loan of DvB to Everton. Maybe that means the kid will get let out the doghouse.

Lyon supposedly tried to get Martial and Baily on loan but United said no.

I read that Martial turned down the return to Lyon, even though it's probably in everyone's best interest for him to move on

I don't think he has much of a future at United but I wouldn't let him go now...especially on loan.

Lingard supposedly told West Ham he had no interest in playing for them...even after Ronaldo was signed.

Ronaldo will miss Portugal's next match due to yellow card accumulation so he's already back in Manchester.

Sancho was released from England duty due to a knock.

Fred may be banned by FIFA for 5 days due to this EPL/FIFA mess regarding players traveling to red list countries for international football.

Dre_00 said:

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I don't think he has much of a future at United but I wouldn't let him go now...especially on loan.

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why? Chelski successfully loans players all over there world.

Depends on what you mean by successful. Their loan model works best for younger players who they then sell for a fee higher than they bought. Those younger players are also on lower salaries which means more clubs are willing to take them on. While they loan out older players too, I don't think they are as successful at turning those loans into future sales at a profit.

Martial was bought for 45 million pounds and is soon to be 26 years old. His salary is pretty high and his value is pretty low at the moment. There's probably not a large loan market for him and teams that are interested are likely not willing to pay all of his wages and certainly not a loan fee (pure speculation on my part). All of that and you can't control the opportunities they get to play.

United's kinda stuck with him and they're going to take a hit when he eventually moves on. But I think it's more likely for him to increase his value at United than in a shallow loan market.

🚨 𝐒𝐓𝐀𝐑𝐓𝐈𝐍𝐆 𝐗𝐈 📋

The news we've all been waiting for... 🤩#MUFC | #MUNNEW

— Manchester United (@ManUtd) September 11, 2021