Buck Compton said:

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Haven't finished season 2 yet, but wtf happened to Cathy?!

Biggest departure from the books so far, and a confusing one at that. I figured with how much time they invested there, she would have stuck around, even with some of the geographic barriers.

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maybe she put on as much weight as Greer did.

I can't really figure out how Harriet Baumann fits into this whole story.

So Doug Stamper's character's name is Mike November. Is that for real? Like M-N in the phonetic alphabet? Its not just some code name?

Made me lol when I heard it.

I was wondering if that's the same guy.

willie wonka said:

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I can't really figure out how Harriet Baumann fits into this whole story.

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It becomes clear about halfway into the season.

jabberwalkie09 said:

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willie wonka said:

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I can't really figure out how Harriet Baumann fits into this whole story.

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It becomes clear about halfway into the season.

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I watched the whole thing and still can't figure out what her interests are. Sorry in advance for being dense.

willie wonka said:

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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willie wonka said:

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I can't really figure out how Harriet Baumann fits into this whole story.

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It becomes clear about halfway into the season.

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I watched the whole thing and still can't figure out what her interests are. Sorry in advance for being dense.

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Spoilers ahead for people who haven't watched.

Initially she lets on that she's a private investigator that hired to look for some businessman who was taken. However, we find out that she's either still in the BND or formerly of the BND, German Intelligence. I can't remember that exactly. She was trained personally by Max who killed Jack's friend, before he went off the reservation and started being a contract killer. The guy who trained her has a soft spot for her, and she has sort of a soft spot for him but also for Jack. She's trying to ensure that he doesn't get killed by trying to work with Jack yo bring him in up to when she blows his brains out. She's basically trying to bring in a rogue asset with some emotional entanglement.

I didn't get why they needed to go grab the daughter as 'bait' when the guy was already in the train station with them...

bobinator said:

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I didn't get why they needed to go grab the daughter as 'bait' when the guy was already in the train station with them...

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He was a step ahead of them in London, Jack wanted to draw him out on his terms was how I took that.

Thanks. That helps.

I kind of just waved it off with that description also, but just seemed like kind of a pointless narrative side track that really had the only benefit of showing that Jack is now apparently fine with taking an innocent person hostage.

I think my bigger issue with this season was just in the last episode all of a sudden EVERYONE that worked for the Venezuelan president could just be killed whether they shot first or not. Ryan and company must have taken out like 50 soldiers trying to rescue Greer.

Yeah, that last bit of the season had me shrugging as well

What the heck did I just watch? I have no idea what they are trying to do with Ryan's character.


I'm with bobinator on not understanding the massacre that Jack and his team just committed on anyone unlucky enough to be in the palace.

If people thought Ryan was too boy scout in season one, we'll in season 2 he's a mad man who has no respect for law and order. He steals evidence, he pays off mercenaries, he uses young females as bait... I mean it's jarring to compare to the Ryan from season one who had a moral problem working with that Turkish pimp.

I'm a fan boy and have read all the books, and it's hard to fathom this take on the character. Somehow he's more insane than Jack Bauer now, which makes no sense at all especially since the stakes were so low in this season. We go from a massive terrorist attack to run of the mill dictator doing dictator stuff.

And in fact a lot of the bad stuff happening in the season was caused by Jack and his team bumbling around. I still have no idea why Marcus left the boat just because he saw someone in the distance.

AggieEP said:

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What the heck did I just watch? I have no idea what they are trying to do with Ryan's character.


I'm with bobinator on not understanding the massacre that Jack and his team just committed on anyone unlucky enough to be in the palace.

If people thought Ryan was too boy scout in season one, we'll in season 2 he's a mad man who has no respect for law and order. He steals evidence, he pays off mercenaries, he uses young females as bait... I mean it's jarring to compare to the Ryan from season one who had a moral problem working with that Turkish pimp.

I'm a fan boy and have read all the books, and it's hard to fathom this take on the character. Somehow he's more insane than Jack Bauer now, which makes no sense at all especially since the stakes were so low in this season. We go from a massive terrorist attack to run of the mill dictator doing dictator stuff.

And in fact a lot of the bad stuff happening in the season was caused by Jack and his team bumbling around. I still have no idea why Marcus left the boat just because he saw someone in the distance.

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Yeah, they tried to turn him into some weird Jason Bourne / Jack Bauer combo in this season. Most of the action scenes, especially the palace, were ridiculous. That being said, it was still fun.

I get the character arc they were going for (quest for revenge, setting aside personal advancement and the rules, etc.). They did it because it's easy for the audience to relate to and understand. The stakes were high for HIM in this season, even if not for the entire country. That's what they were trying to explore.

But agree it was a stark contrast to season 1 morally-righteous analyst. They're definitely departing from the books in a major way now.

The Uber going into the jungle **** was stupid and over complicated the plot. A much better storyline would have been one of the others being captured, and him having to buck up and go back to get someone (i.e., "be cool under pressure" just like was discussed by his truck when he was recruited). Just as stupid was the kid stealing his rifle and locator. Useless plot device. There can be plenty of reasons he loses his locator.

I can agree that Mike November is the stupidest name ever, even if I like the character and actor.

claym711 said:

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This season just reminds me of how badly GOT did the faceless men plot.

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Because the faceless man is also in this?

Jk

The Uber plot line was like the pilot plot line from season one. Like what did any of that have to do with the core story?

I liked the Bud Light King's character but just had a hard time figuring out what the point of all of that was.

I will say after season 1 I was expecting this season to have a "twist" or for the woman candidate to actually be the bad guy or something.

Season 1 was like 24, season 2 was like Narcos.

I thought they were going to play it straight forward with the plot but we did get a twist, only it's such a dumb twist as to make no sense at all. A rogue senator in cahoots with hitmen? What the hell, and he personally makes phone calls to the middle man from his own cell? Doesn't use a burner or something when getting his hands dirty like that.

I kind of feel like they went into this season with a bunch of ideas for scenes ripped from Clear and Present Danger and instead of writing a story that supported those scenes, just made them happen anyway.

- Soldiers trapped in the jungle being hunted by bad guys

- Jack Ryan having ultra integrity and turning in a politician for misdeeds

- Helicopter assault on antagonist stronghold

The problem is that none of these scenarios seemed organic to the plot and were just kind of forced.

Yeah, I don't know what's more unrealistic, CIA folks having unfettered access to the president of a country or those same folks shooting up the presidential palace like its Roadhouse.

I liked the season ok. Started strong and then kinda slipped off the rails into rambo land...

i pretty much checked out when Marcus left the boat. I realized it was going to be one of those story lines... And yes Marcus wasn't a shooter, but anyone in that spot would know enough not to leave the gd boat and go trucking in the jungle to where he lost all situational awareness. i like how Taylor Sheridan writes his shooters such as in the Sicario movies better than what they were trying to do in this season. The final shootout at the ok corral palace was eye rolling

bobinator said:

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The Uber plot line was like the pilot plot line from season one. Like what did any of that have to do with the core story?

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Iirc, there was usually some short bits in Clancy's books that had nothing usually to do with the story. I want to say I remember in Hunt for Red October that there was a bit about the helicopter that dropped Ryan off at the Dallas crashing after that.

However, Uber/Marcus at least had more of a connection to the overall plot and a revenge arc, avenging Matice. The drone plot from last season was the epitome of smacking you in the face with agenda. From the very start he had nothing to do with any of the main characters, signs of PTSD from doing missions, and his final trip into Syria was laughable and he would likely find his clearance revoked and talking to counterintelligence section about his time there.

Edit: And that's assuming he would make it out of he country with a bag full of money.

Yeah, this entire season was about Personal revenge story arcs, from Jack's focus on Moreno's death to Marcus and Matice to even Bonalde's reason for running. So at least I understood where they were going with that even if it was a dumb way to get there. No way he acts like he did on the shore if he was an experienced guy who used to run swift boats.

The pilot storyline was just an embarrassing part of season 1 that reeked of agenda. That dude would have been given the big chicken dinner so quickly.

Question:

Were we supposed to know anyone who died in the house fire?

Overall, I liked this season about the same as the first. Good moments and some eye-rolling plot devices. Not quite on the same level as Bosch for me, but I think that's mostly a product of writing.

no I think that was just the presidents and ubarri old neighborhood. He could have possibly known them but I missed it if it was someone we were supposed to know

Okay, thanks. I had to rewind to make sure I hadn't missed some obvious connection.

it wasn't her old house, was it?

I feel like watching this show after watching any season of Homeland (even after it jumped the shark) is just disappointing.

Not bad... just disappointing.

Just too many of our typical tropes at every turn.

I think it very odd they left the Cathy story line completely out of Season 2. Pretty big character in the books and in Season 1 to suddenly write off.

That was my main question. I get that she wouldn't have fit in because they spent all of two seconds in the United States. I just didn't like that Jack immediately sacks up with someone who was so obviously a foreign national.

They didn't even write her out, though. Not a single mention of her - which obviously leaves it open for her to come back. With the personal story arc he experienced in Season 2, I guess they could stretch and find some way to write her back in after he stretches and questions his own morals, etc...

They're obviously departing from the books in a big way, only taking ideas of cool plots from them. So maybe she doesn't come back. I can't see a good way to bring her back in.

Agree there are just way to many traditional tropes.

It's been a while since I watched any of the movies or read any of the books, but I remember Jack Ryan as a boy scout always thrust into a bad situation and then having the smarts and skills to save the day. I don't remember him being such a continuously arrogant person. The season just gets repetitive after a while

1. Jack asks to do something
2. Gets told no
3. Goes over someones head in the name of justice.
4. Get's himself and others in a bad situation
5. Someone saves his rear
6. Jack says thanks, but there's JUST ONE MORE thing he has to do.
7. Annnnnddd back to step 1

What started out as interesting just devolved in to bad writing. The arbitrary line of the law was a bit much as well. "We don't have the go ahead to kill Reyes." OH but you had no problem landing a chopper on the roof of the presidential palace on election day and then gunning down every soldier in sight? huh?

Overall it's a good show but needs a touch better writing, and Jack just isn't likable or charming like Harrison Ford was in the movies.

Which is funny, because I really thought his character was likable and had the charm in season 1. I just think this one falls flat a bit.

well this storyline has a basis in the Clear and Present Danger book and in that one Jack did skirt the rules to get things done because of the corruption in the higher ups in the government and CIA

Definitely enjoyed season 1 jack Ryan personality better. Plus it just seems weird to me he didn't get into more trouble considering he compromised an entire operation by disobeying the operations commanding officer.