Thank you for reminding me that I waste way too much time in discussions like this that have very predictable outcomes. Enjoy the movie y'all!
Why doesn't Disney just cancel the new Snow White movie?
94,052 Views |
927 Replies |
Last: 7 mo ago by EclipseAg
It's only a matter of time when Disney runs out of ideas that there will be a "pitch" to remake Moana, but with an all white cast.Lathspell said:
Moana was a great idea by Disney, and it made them heaps of money. Good for them! You also had movies like Coco and Encanto... great! Show other cultures and let us get to know them. Raceswapping a Grim Fairy Tale? We're all gonna roll our eyes because it's an obvious shallow attempt of forcing inclusion. But again, that's the least of my criticism of this Snow White movie.
Regardless of whether this movie is woke or not, Disney has had a perception problem for a while. They make family-friendly, wholesome entertainment that should be the most non-controversial stuff on the planet. Yet, they've somehow managed to convince a non-trivial portion of their audience otherwise and that they are attempting to use their products to indoctrinate kids with certain political viewpoints. Whether you believe they are doing this is largely beside the point from a business standpoint. As this thread, South Park, and countless other sources attest, enough people think they are that it's a problem for them and one their management should be working to rectify. And that's why taking a movie like Snow White and then giving off even the slightest indication that it's now being filtered through a DEI lens was a questionable decision, IMO.
That's a great point. The perception is there for a LOT of people and it doesn't seem like they are course correcting in any meaningful ways They have lost our dollars as we won't be renewing Disney Plus, which we somehow managed to get through 2025 from the initial launch, haven't gone to see a Disney movie as a family in a long while, don't have ESPN and have decided not to go back to the park after our last visit. I am certain there are a number of other families just like ours. Whether the people in this thread think they are doing the things discussed or not, other people do, and that is lost revenue.
I don't think its fair to say Disney isn't making any changes - but I think a lot of people don't yet trust what they say and/or don't yet see the actual results of most such actions. Given enough time it should be clear if they are making meaningful changes or not. That will likely take more than a year though given the development timelines for a lot of their projects.
That's fair, and you're right that it'll definitely take time.
To me, though, if anything, cancelling The Acolyte was a pretty massive signal that they're actually following through on their claims.
To me, though, if anything, cancelling The Acolyte was a pretty massive signal that they're actually following through on their claims.
TCTTS said:
That's fair, and you're right that it'll definitely take time.
To me, though, if anything, cancelling The Acolyte was a pretty massive signal that they're actually following through on their claims.
Most people don't read Bob Igor comments. Their opinions are formed by the entertainment products released. To truly combat the current perception, they'll probably need a good year or 2 of releases that don't create this kind of backlash. And I think that means stuff perceived as non-woke. Not just cancelling stuff that was perceived as a woke failure.
I get that, but Iger's comments have been mentioned all over this board, numerous times, in multiple threads, and seeing as Sea Speed is all over the board as well, I'd find it hard to believe he hadn't heard them. That said, ultimately you're right in that it's going to take actual execution in released content for the public at large to truly take notice. I'm just saying, Disney is off to good a start, and has been putting their money where their mouth is in terms of announcements/development.
To be fair, people have also been spinning stuff like this for a long time, and it's also much ado about nothing.
I'm old enough to remember when the Beauty and the Beast remake got a 7 page thread here, and one that was so bad it had to be nuked from the Politics board (where it takes ALOT to get something nuked) about how it would push a gay agenda on my kids.
https://texags.com/forums/13/topics/2809447/1#discussion
Then everyone saw it and was like yeah, nope, that didn't actually happen at all.
People who are maybe not the best at parsing through media and determining what makes sense and what maybe doesn't are easily drawn into false starts, without having seen much of anything, and certain places are good at riling those people up for clicks/views.
I'm old enough to remember when the Beauty and the Beast remake got a 7 page thread here, and one that was so bad it had to be nuked from the Politics board (where it takes ALOT to get something nuked) about how it would push a gay agenda on my kids.
https://texags.com/forums/13/topics/2809447/1#discussion
Then everyone saw it and was like yeah, nope, that didn't actually happen at all.
People who are maybe not the best at parsing through media and determining what makes sense and what maybe doesn't are easily drawn into false starts, without having seen much of anything, and certain places are good at riling those people up for clicks/views.
TCTTS said:
I get that, but Iger's comments have been mentioned all over this board, numerous times, in multiple threads, and seeing as Sea Speed is all over the board as well, I'd find it hard to believe he hadn't heard them. That said, ultimately you're right in that it's going to take actual execution in released content for the public at large to truly take notice. I'm just saying, Disney is off to good a start, and has been putting their money where their mouth is in terms of announcements/development.
My comments haven't really been in response to any particular post or poster here. Just more thoughts on the overall perception of Disney writ large.
And man paid to say the right things saying the right things won't move the needle for many that are predisposed to distrust Disney on this.
JCA1 said:TCTTS said:
That's fair, and you're right that it'll definitely take time.
To me, though, if anything, cancelling The Acolyte was a pretty massive signal that they're actually following through on their claims.
Most people don't read Bob Igor comments. Their opinions are formed by the entertainment products released. To truly combat the current perception, they'll probably need a good year or 2 of releases that don't create this kind of backlash. And I think that means stuff perceived as non-woke. Not just cancelling stuff that was perceived as a woke failure.
Exactly right. The end product is what matters to folks, not what is said along the way, if they even know about it at all.
This is kind of funny reading on here considering all the hysterics we see about directors/actors interviews about a product (or even in general) before the product even comes out.Sea Speed said:JCA1 said:TCTTS said:
That's fair, and you're right that it'll definitely take time.
To me, though, if anything, cancelling The Acolyte was a pretty massive signal that they're actually following through on their claims.
Most people don't read Bob Igor comments. Their opinions are formed by the entertainment products released. To truly combat the current perception, they'll probably need a good year or 2 of releases that don't create this kind of backlash. And I think that means stuff perceived as non-woke. Not just cancelling stuff that was perceived as a woke failure.
Exactly right. The end product is what matters to folks, not what is said along the way, if they even know about it at all.
***I know this is long. The TLDR is tell good stories. Leave out agendas or work them in properly in a way that only adds to a good story. That is all audiences want. A good story. Period. Too much of a social agenda makes that impossible.***
What has been interesting about all of this is that it points to the fact that a lot of agendas that Disney had bought into and allowed to be in stories seems to have made these stories worse. Again, I could care less if there are gay characters in a story IF the story is told well and is compelling and the fact someone is gay isn't the story (unless, of course it is about being gay and how that effects the character which is obviously something different). Take the Last of Us series and the gay couple in it. They told a well written story and was compelling and did not feel forced, it wasn't a story that felt invented just so the writer could have a gay character in it. The Acolyte seemed like an interesting tale on the surface that just didn't land. To me it lacked a real purpose. I really liked to idea of how the Jedi could meddle too much into other's affairs and that could lead to issues. It's intriguing. Yet, they didn't tell the story well enough nor were the characters, to me, written in a way that I truly cared about them. Compare that to Andor which was really well written and acted and had great story and character development. It brought in adult level situations but did it seamlessly and nothing was jarring or felt out of place.
It sounds like Disney also held back on adding Woke subject matter to Deadpool and Wolverine. Or, as it sounds like, Ryan Reynolds wouldn't allow it. And it's caused Brie Larson and Tatiana Maslany to get mad, mainly b/c their parts in the movie were cut due to very negative feedback from test audiences. Sounds like the scene they were in just didn't resinate with audiences and might have been a tad preachy, so they cut it. And rightly so if true. If it takes away from the story, lose it. I do think it's funny that the actresses issued statements protesting Disney and Reynolds when they are considered by many fans weak links in the MCU and the movie has past a billion dollars with Larson even saying that it is a small but loud minority of fans that want agendas taken out of movies and that this movie "isn't even funny". Wow, I didn't know a small minority could spend over a billion dollars! In that case, follow the minority and follow the money!
I do think Disney was trying to follow a "woke" type of agenda. Hell, there were leaked videos proving as much. But I think they realize now that if the story isn't well done, people won't like it. And that regardless of their political affiliation. I have no issue with certain things placed in my story IF it actually adds to a story. I want good stories. Not bad ones or 'meh'/mid stories. And I do not want to be preached to. No one does. And in my opinion, there was an agenda to add social messages in stories and it hampered the story teller's ability to write good stories. Have a gay character. Fine, just don't force it. Make sure the story comes before the agenda. Or, better yet, just skip the agenda all together. We go to the Star Wars Universe to escape life's realities. Sure, add some real life to it to add to the overall realistic layered world that you are creating, but only as long as it works for the story. But if you want to have stories that are veiled attempts at bringing light to an agenda important to you, there are platforms for that. Actually write a story about the issue in a world that is like ours. Don't take over franchises with things that honestly I feel do not belong there. And, when you do add things, make sure things like that flow with the story. And all will be good.
What has been interesting about all of this is that it points to the fact that a lot of agendas that Disney had bought into and allowed to be in stories seems to have made these stories worse. Again, I could care less if there are gay characters in a story IF the story is told well and is compelling and the fact someone is gay isn't the story (unless, of course it is about being gay and how that effects the character which is obviously something different). Take the Last of Us series and the gay couple in it. They told a well written story and was compelling and did not feel forced, it wasn't a story that felt invented just so the writer could have a gay character in it. The Acolyte seemed like an interesting tale on the surface that just didn't land. To me it lacked a real purpose. I really liked to idea of how the Jedi could meddle too much into other's affairs and that could lead to issues. It's intriguing. Yet, they didn't tell the story well enough nor were the characters, to me, written in a way that I truly cared about them. Compare that to Andor which was really well written and acted and had great story and character development. It brought in adult level situations but did it seamlessly and nothing was jarring or felt out of place.
It sounds like Disney also held back on adding Woke subject matter to Deadpool and Wolverine. Or, as it sounds like, Ryan Reynolds wouldn't allow it. And it's caused Brie Larson and Tatiana Maslany to get mad, mainly b/c their parts in the movie were cut due to very negative feedback from test audiences. Sounds like the scene they were in just didn't resinate with audiences and might have been a tad preachy, so they cut it. And rightly so if true. If it takes away from the story, lose it. I do think it's funny that the actresses issued statements protesting Disney and Reynolds when they are considered by many fans weak links in the MCU and the movie has past a billion dollars with Larson even saying that it is a small but loud minority of fans that want agendas taken out of movies and that this movie "isn't even funny". Wow, I didn't know a small minority could spend over a billion dollars! In that case, follow the minority and follow the money!
I do think Disney was trying to follow a "woke" type of agenda. Hell, there were leaked videos proving as much. But I think they realize now that if the story isn't well done, people won't like it. And that regardless of their political affiliation. I have no issue with certain things placed in my story IF it actually adds to a story. I want good stories. Not bad ones or 'meh'/mid stories. And I do not want to be preached to. No one does. And in my opinion, there was an agenda to add social messages in stories and it hampered the story teller's ability to write good stories. Have a gay character. Fine, just don't force it. Make sure the story comes before the agenda. Or, better yet, just skip the agenda all together. We go to the Star Wars Universe to escape life's realities. Sure, add some real life to it to add to the overall realistic layered world that you are creating, but only as long as it works for the story. But if you want to have stories that are veiled attempts at bringing light to an agenda important to you, there are platforms for that. Actually write a story about the issue in a world that is like ours. Don't take over franchises with things that honestly I feel do not belong there. And, when you do add things, make sure things like that flow with the story. And all will be good.
What's ridiculous about all the people getting upset is that the original Snow White is a pretty godawful story.Quote:
I know this is long. The TLDR is tell good stories.
So true. I think that movie was a hit because quality animation was a fairly new thing, and it was the first full-length movie in color (the use of KinemaColor doesn't count for me), as well as the first full-length animated feature film.20ag07 said:What's ridiculous about all the people getting upset is that the original Snow White is a pretty godawful story.Quote:
I know this is long. The TLDR is tell good stories.
Wokeism makes every story vastly worse.20ag07 said:What's ridiculous about all the people getting upset is that the original Snow White is a pretty godawful story.Quote:
I know this is long. The TLDR is tell good stories.
Why is Snow White a god awful story? Because it's a kids' fairy tale that simplifies good vs evil, kindness vs jealousy, and the idea of finding a prince charming?
redline248 said:
Why is Snow White a god awful story? Because it's a kids' fairy tale that simplifies good vs evil, kindness vs jealousy, and the idea of finding a prince charming?
Yeah, the original Grimm version was always a cautionary tale about vanity and the dangers of jealousy. Disney's version added a little extra to Snow White beyond her looks and made her both beautiful and selfless, and it gave the story the added dimension of being about the evil queen's selfish nature vs Snow White's selfless act of caring for the dwarves. Not sure why that's so horrible to some people.
20ag07 said:What's ridiculous about all the people getting upset is that the original Snow White is a pretty godawful story.Quote:
I know this is long. The TLDR is tell good stories.
One of the top 50 greatest movies in history?
20ag07 said:
To be fair, people have also been spinning stuff like this for a long time, and it's also much ado about nothing.
I'm old enough to remember when the Beauty and the Beast remake got a 7 page thread here, and one that was so bad it had to be nuked from the Politics board (where it takes ALOT to get something nuked) about how it would push a gay agenda on my kids.
https://texags.com/forums/13/topics/2809447/1#discussion
Then everyone saw it and was like yeah, nope, that didn't actually happen at all.
People who are maybe not the best at parsing through media and determining what makes sense and what maybe doesn't are easily drawn into false starts, without having seen much of anything, and certain places are good at riling those people up for clicks/views.
I've never seen all of this movie but somehow it came back to tv and I managed to see about 15 minutes of it recently....it happened to be the climax battle scene where the armoire lady changes a couple of dudes into their real selves and their real selves turn out to be gay dudes and she tells them to be who they really are or some such.
Thus, there is a gay agenda segment in that movie and it happened clear as day. It's just arguable about how much you think it was influential or if you think that was subtle enough that kids wouldn't get it.
And I do think Disney is course correcting. Iger has said as much and lately actions seem to be pointing that direction to some degree. You have a lot of content already in the hopper so there is lag with these things.
How much course correction actually happens remains to be seen.
How much course correction actually happens remains to be seen.
20ag07 said:
To be fair, people have also been spinning stuff like this for a long time, and it's also much ado about nothing.
I'm old enough to remember when the Beauty and the Beast remake got a 7 page thread here, and one that was so bad it had to be nuked from the Politics board (where it takes ALOT to get something nuked) about how it would push a gay agenda on my kids.
https://texags.com/forums/13/topics/2809447/1#discussion
Then everyone saw it and was like yeah, nope, that didn't actually happen at all.
People who are maybe not the best at parsing through media and determining what makes sense and what maybe doesn't are easily drawn into false starts, without having seen much of anything, and certain places are good at riling those people up for clicks/views.
It's not really spinning something when Disney made a big deal about promoting it before the release. They're the ones who made a big deal about it instead of just sticking it in. If it hadn't been for them, doubtful anyone would have noticed or cared.
SoTxAg said:
I am so glad those people all got fired.
Swear this just looks like an average scene from Ren Faire in Waxahachie.
Saxsoon said:Moral High Horse said:
Geez! Go down the list of snow white evil queens and there is some smoking hotties. This is a joke right?
To be completely fair to middle Snow White
She looked great in season 1
That said I had a chance to meet Regina Mills in person and wow
Yeah, and in that story it wasn't so much about her looks. IIRC she actually unintentionally screwed her over somehow.
MASAXET said:This is kind of funny reading on here considering all the hysterics we see about directors/actors interviews about a product (or even in general) before the product even comes out.Sea Speed said:JCA1 said:TCTTS said:
That's fair, and you're right that it'll definitely take time.
To me, though, if anything, cancelling The Acolyte was a pretty massive signal that they're actually following through on their claims.
Most people don't read Bob Igor comments. Their opinions are formed by the entertainment products released. To truly combat the current perception, they'll probably need a good year or 2 of releases that don't create this kind of backlash. And I think that means stuff perceived as non-woke. Not just cancelling stuff that was perceived as a woke failure.
Exactly right. The end product is what matters to folks, not what is said along the way, if they even know about it at all.
Again, I was talking about to the average consumer that doesn't post on entertainment centered message boards.
MASAXET said:This is kind of funny reading on here considering all the hysterics we see about directors/actors interviews about a product (or even in general) before the product even comes out.Sea Speed said:JCA1 said:TCTTS said:
That's fair, and you're right that it'll definitely take time.
To me, though, if anything, cancelling The Acolyte was a pretty massive signal that they're actually following through on their claims.
Most people don't read Bob Igor comments. Their opinions are formed by the entertainment products released. To truly combat the current perception, they'll probably need a good year or 2 of releases that don't create this kind of backlash. And I think that means stuff perceived as non-woke. Not just cancelling stuff that was perceived as a woke failure.
Exactly right. The end product is what matters to folks, not what is said along the way, if they even know about it at all.
I don't think there's been a show or film yet that didn't suck after the writers/directors/actors/producers talked up its diversity or how great it was that someone involved was whatever minority more than the actual product or the studio put out a leak or press release about how it had some "barrier" breaking scene. If DEI is your main talking point about a movie or show before it's out, history has shown it's probably because there's nothing else good about it to talk about.
ABATTBQ11 said:redline248 said:
Why is Snow White a god awful story? Because it's a kids' fairy tale that simplifies good vs evil, kindness vs jealousy, and the idea of finding a prince charming?
Yeah, the original Grimm version was always a cautionary tale about vanity and the dangers of jealousy. Disney's version added a little extra to Snow White beyond her looks and made her both beautiful and selfless, and it gave the story the added dimension of being about the evil queen's selfish nature vs Snow White's selfless act of caring for the dwarves. Not sure why that's so horrible to some people.
It's great for kids. It's just not one of the greatest movies of all time, except for the technical advancements in movie-making, to me.
Rex Racer said:ABATTBQ11 said:redline248 said:
Why is Snow White a god awful story? Because it's a kids' fairy tale that simplifies good vs evil, kindness vs jealousy, and the idea of finding a prince charming?
Yeah, the original Grimm version was always a cautionary tale about vanity and the dangers of jealousy. Disney's version added a little extra to Snow White beyond her looks and made her both beautiful and selfless, and it gave the story the added dimension of being about the evil queen's selfish nature vs Snow White's selfless act of caring for the dwarves. Not sure why that's so horrible to some people.
It's great for kids. It's just not one of the greatest movies of all time, except for the technical advancements in movie-making, to me.
The original premise was that Snow White is a god awful story, not one of the greatest movies of all time. It is certainly not.
That said, it really is one of the greatest films of all time considering what little had come before it in terms of animation and storytelling and what was possible at the time. If it was made today, no, it wouldn't even be considered good, but it was an absolute masterpiece when it was released and paved the way for all animated feature films afterwards.
Which makes this movie all the more "blasphemous" (for lack of a better word) due to the crappy animation seen so far in the trailer.ABATTBQ11 said:Rex Racer said:ABATTBQ11 said:redline248 said:
Why is Snow White a god awful story? Because it's a kids' fairy tale that simplifies good vs evil, kindness vs jealousy, and the idea of finding a prince charming?
Yeah, the original Grimm version was always a cautionary tale about vanity and the dangers of jealousy. Disney's version added a little extra to Snow White beyond her looks and made her both beautiful and selfless, and it gave the story the added dimension of being about the evil queen's selfish nature vs Snow White's selfless act of caring for the dwarves. Not sure why that's so horrible to some people.
It's great for kids. It's just not one of the greatest movies of all time, except for the technical advancements in movie-making, to me.
The original premise was that Snow White is a god awful story, not one of the greatest movies of all time. It is certainly not.
That said, it really is one of the greatest films of all time considering what little had come before it in terms of animation and storytelling and what was possible at the time. If it was made today, no, it wouldn't even be considered good, but it was an absolute masterpiece when it was released and paved the way for all animated feature films afterwards.
Clearly Disney's strength is no longer animation. I'm not sure actually WHAT their strength is nowadays - being a mega corp?
Well, I'll put it to you this way. Unless my grandson comes over, this 55 year-old will never watch it again.ABATTBQ11 said:Rex Racer said:ABATTBQ11 said:redline248 said:
Why is Snow White a god awful story? Because it's a kids' fairy tale that simplifies good vs evil, kindness vs jealousy, and the idea of finding a prince charming?
Yeah, the original Grimm version was always a cautionary tale about vanity and the dangers of jealousy. Disney's version added a little extra to Snow White beyond her looks and made her both beautiful and selfless, and it gave the story the added dimension of being about the evil queen's selfish nature vs Snow White's selfless act of caring for the dwarves. Not sure why that's so horrible to some people.
It's great for kids. It's just not one of the greatest movies of all time, except for the technical advancements in movie-making, to me.
The original premise was that Snow White is a god awful story, not one of the greatest movies of all time. It is certainly not.
That said, it really is one of the greatest films of all time considering what little had come before it in terms of animation and storytelling and what was possible at the time. If it was made today, no, it wouldn't even be considered good, but it was an absolute masterpiece when it was released and paved the way for all animated feature films afterwards.
Leave it to the Critical Drinker to be able to put Snow White into an Event Horizon analogy.
"Leave it to the Critical Drinker to be able to put Snow White into an Event Horizon analogy"
"This place is a tomb."
"This place is a tomb."
A lot of YouTubers are saying ticket presales are looking really bad. I believe it. I looked at our local showtimes for next weekend, and despite tickets being on sale for a few days, every single showing is empty. Most unavailable seats I saw was 7, but most common was 0. Thursday opening had a total of like 5 seats sold across every showing I looked at. Seems like there's not an ounce of excitement for this movie, and I wouldn't be shocked if the opening weekend was even less than $45-$50 million.
Disney never seems to learn. It's truly baffling to me.
The idea that the long time fans of the IP will just show up and they can do whatever they want with it has been disproven time and again.
SW ep 9 grossed barely half of what 7 did. The pent up demand for the final trilogy was clear, and they eventually squandered it. The primary cause was almost criminally lazy writing, but how they chose to cast them played a part for sure. And that's before abominations like The Acolyte, the mediocrity of Solo, the Obi Wan series etc.
Not Disney, but Star Trek's third rebooted movie barely grossed half of what the first one did. They decided to not be true to what the original series was, or even its timeline. in attempt to "modernize and expand their audience". And now the entire movie franchise has been on hold for 9 years and counting. The only thing that's had any traction in that time was a series that was actually true to the IP (Picard).
So arguably the 2 biggest pieces of Sci Fi IP ever have been severely damaged, and their solution? Let's do it with some more stuff.
Start with your core audience and work outward, both in plot and casting and don't take them for granted. It's such a simple idea, that people paid large sums of money continue to not understand it is really is crazy.
The other clear message from above, keep JJ Abrams' away from anything else I care about
.
The idea that the long time fans of the IP will just show up and they can do whatever they want with it has been disproven time and again.
SW ep 9 grossed barely half of what 7 did. The pent up demand for the final trilogy was clear, and they eventually squandered it. The primary cause was almost criminally lazy writing, but how they chose to cast them played a part for sure. And that's before abominations like The Acolyte, the mediocrity of Solo, the Obi Wan series etc.
Not Disney, but Star Trek's third rebooted movie barely grossed half of what the first one did. They decided to not be true to what the original series was, or even its timeline. in attempt to "modernize and expand their audience". And now the entire movie franchise has been on hold for 9 years and counting. The only thing that's had any traction in that time was a series that was actually true to the IP (Picard).
So arguably the 2 biggest pieces of Sci Fi IP ever have been severely damaged, and their solution? Let's do it with some more stuff.
Start with your core audience and work outward, both in plot and casting and don't take them for granted. It's such a simple idea, that people paid large sums of money continue to not understand it is really is crazy.
The other clear message from above, keep JJ Abrams' away from anything else I care about
. Featured Stories
See All
Resilient Aggies claim 90-88 win in chaotic finish at Auburn
by Richard Zane
13:56
14h ago
2.5k
Tuesday (1/6) Portal Storylines: Another add, watch list grows & more
by TexAgs Recruiting
11:20
16h ago
2.3k
aggies101
That was the most stupid basketball game I've ever watched
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
13