Camp Mystic and Guadalupe updates

217,442 Views | 848 Replies | Last: 6 days ago by BadMoonRisin
Gunny456
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In 1978 I lived on the Guadalupe downstream from Spring Branch. I was born and raised there since 1953.
In 1978 It crested at 45.25 feet at Spring Branch and 51' at Rebecca Creek crossing.
In 2002 it crested at 44.20 ft at Spring Branch.
In 1998 it crested at 27.0 ft at Spring Branch.
Tanya 93
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When ever I read Spring Branch, I have to remember that it isn't Houston this time.
2wealfth Man
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Lakes Buchanan and LBJ going to get hammered with this wall of water. All that flow going over Inks Dam going to be something to see.

Urban Country Boy
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Sorry if this offends: We pray for those who are still missing.

O God, our refuge and strength,

We come before You with heavy hearts, lifting up those who are missing and their loved ones.

You know where they are, Lord, and You see their struggles and fears.
We ask You to guide and protect them, wherever they may be.

Surround them with Your comforting presence and lead them safely home.
Grant wisdom to those searching for them, and strength to the families and friends
who wait in hope and uncertainty.

May Your peace, which surpasses understanding, fill their hearts during this difficult time.
We entrust the missing to Your loving care.Through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary and all the saints.

We pray this in the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord.

Amen.
Buford T. Justice
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I feel terrible about what has happened again.
Can they not implement a warning system/siren alert once x amount of rain falls, to tell people to move fast to higher ground? I was friends with one of the folks that perished last time, along with their family, and it is completely heartbreaking to know that others are now dealing with the same loss.

In saying that, I completely understand that these terrible events happen so fast, but can nothing be done?

"Gimme a diablo sandwhich and a dr. pepper...to go"
Kyle Field Shade Chaser
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Agree. Tornado horns around the river? Helicopters? Gotten something upstream to set off alerts, especially for night time events. It's kind of insane at this point there is no warning systems.

Did anyone get phone warnings?
88planoAg
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Comfort has a warning system I think.
txaggie_08
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Buchanan will be fine, San Saba won't even fill it up. Been way too low.

LBJ getting hit hard tonight. Hopefully all of the weekend visitors are safe tonight. Travis needs this water.
mjschiller
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UCB, thank you.
jopatura
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4:20 AM a flash flood emergency was issued for Western Kerr county. A very small sliver along the river was included. It stopped before the city of Kerrville.

Also a big problem is that a lot of the river camping sites don't get cell service and if they do, the phones aren't set to the right alerts for travelers. That was a big problem in Wimberley which was better warned 10 years ago.
Owlagdad
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Kyle Field Shade Chaser said:

Agree. Tornado horns around the river? Helicopters? Gotten something upstream to set off alerts, especially for night time events. It's kind of insane at this point there is no warning systems.

Did anyone get phone warnings?


Agree. And knowing area is prone to flash flooding, could camp have an awake CQ that could monitor and have procedures to head to higher ground?
When we camp, we always take the side of precaution, even if means losing sleep and getting kids scared. We head for higher ground.
TAMUallen
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Urban Country Boy said:

Sorry if this offends: We pray for those who are still missing.

O God, our refuge and strength,

We come before You with heavy hearts, lifting up those who are missing and their loved ones.

You know where they are, Lord, and You see their struggles and fears.
We ask You to guide and protect them, wherever they may be.

Surround them with Your comforting presence and lead them safely home.
Grant wisdom to those searching for them, and strength to the families and friends
who wait in hope and uncertainty.

May Your peace, which surpasses understanding, fill their hearts during this difficult time.
We entrust the missing to Your loving care.Through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary and all the saints.

We pray this in the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord.

Amen.


Don't be sorry about prayer. Be loud and let all hear them. I'm sending countless prayers for all those in the flood to be found safely and to comfort their worried friends and family. God bless you all
TexasRebel
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A Missouri state park I used to frequent had a horn system to open and close the fishing day.

Flood sirens along the river could be done. Also now-a-days sirens double as a PA for the Emergency Broadcast System.

It'd likely have to be a project of the river authority as it would span multiple counties.

I'd help with a project like that any way I could.
ZooSuit
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What I want to know is where are our meteorologist? As far as I know this is a post-tropical cyclone and it was so obvious it was out there and coming...yet in Austin just a few days ago they were predicting 100 degree weather this weekend and dry. How could that be? We had to know after Barry came onshore and tracked it that it was heading this direction and stalling. Rudy Koski is yelling at a judge this afternoon as if he has a clue and I hate to call out the "scientist", but they seemed to have missed this big time!
Hill Country Ag
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Terrible situation. A family we know impacted was asked to come in to morgue to id a body to see if it was their daughter. It wasn't their daughter, but their daughter still missing. We need to pray for these families and the emergency team.
Gig 'Em
Gunny456
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Didn't offend me sir. Thank you for it. God bless you.
If it did offend someone they don't have to read it.
Caliber
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ZooSuit said:

What I want to know is where are our meteorologist? As far as I know this is a post-tropical cyclone and it was so obvious it was out there and coming...yet in Austin just a few days ago they were predicting 100 degree weather this weekend and dry. How could that be? We had to know after Barry came onshore and tracked it that it was heading this direction and stalling. Rudy Koski is yelling at a judge this afternoon as if he has a clue and I hate to call out the "scientist", but they seemed to have missed this big time!

I've seen reports most of the week that this was a possibility in models but most mets didn't see it actually happening.
FriscoKid
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Really heartbreaking. A parent's worst dream.
DDub74
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I've been coming to the hill country for 44 years and agree that by now there should be technology available to prevent people from getting swept away from flood waters even if at night. I watched the weather all night on my phone and knew at 2:30
Am it was an issue so checked our Frio river to make sure water wasn't rising. I have experienced to many floods (Memorial Day, 1987 comfort, and countless other ones) to know waters can rise very fast in hill country. And I don't even live there full time. This will
Lead to a lot of changes in warming systems but sad that so many kids had to die when it was preventable in my opinion. After years of multi million dollar lawsuits and blah blah blah they will enact a warning system as it will happen again guaranteed in next ten years if not sooner.
2wealfth Man
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txaggie_08 said:

Buchanan will be fine, San Saba won't even fill it up. Been way too low.

LBJ getting hit hard tonight. Hopefully all of the weekend visitors are safe tonight. Travis needs this water.
Travis is about 42 feet below the conservation pool level of 681 feet, so it can take this water. Will be interesting to watch the lake levels over the next few days.
jopatura
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ZooSuit said:

What I want to know is where are our meteorologist? As far as I know this is a post-tropical cyclone and it was so obvious it was out there and coming...yet in Austin just a few days ago they were predicting 100 degree weather this weekend and dry. How could that be? We had to know after Barry came onshore and tracked it that it was heading this direction and stalling. Rudy Koski is yelling at a judge this afternoon as if he has a clue and I hate to call out the "scientist", but they seemed to have missed this big time!


The models are crap this year. I don't know enough to know if it's part of the funding issues or not. I'm not speculating on those.

There were meteorologists in the Austin/San Antonio area saying there could be 6-8" in localized areas, but no one really wanted to pinpoint where the localized might be. I suspect that was more in part due to the 4th and not wanting to overplay the rain and ruin tourism. I did see multiple meteorologists start mentioning a possible rain bomb event Wednesday evening into Thursday.
Gunny456
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No one studies the systems. They just depend on all the computer models.
Thing is this event seems just about like 1987 in so many ways but worse due the holiday.
I grew up on the Guadalupe. Lived on it for close to 40 years myself. My family lived on it for over a century and a half. One thing we learned is the river is unpredictable.
chilimuybueno
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My wife and daughter and I barely made it. Had to climb trees to escape the flood. House badly damaged. It came up so fast hard to believe. If I hadn't woken up when I did, I wouldn't be typing this. Ours was the last house on the river just before Mystic. I am still shaken
Urban Country Boy
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Gunny456 said:

Didn't offend me sir. Thank you for it. God bless you.
If it did offend someone they don't have to read it.
Thank you.
Rapier108
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ZooSuit said:

What I want to know is where are our meteorologist? As far as I know this is a post-tropical cyclone and it was so obvious it was out there and coming...yet in Austin just a few days ago they were predicting 100 degree weather this weekend and dry. How could that be? We had to know after Barry came onshore and tracked it that it was heading this direction and stalling. Rudy Koski is yelling at a judge this afternoon as if he has a clue and I hate to call out the "scientist", but they seemed to have missed this big time!
And what were they supposed to do?

The forecast was for rain, with the potential for heavy rain. Predicting the weather has never been an exact science. Even the best miss at times such as when the SPC says there is a moderate (4 out of 5) risk of tornadoes and there are barely any.

It is up to people to use the information provided.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
TAMUallen
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chilimuybueno said:

My wife and daughter and I barely made it. Had to climb trees to escape the flood. House badly damaged. It came up so fast hard to believe. If I hadn't woken up when I did, I wouldn't be typing this. Ours was the last house on the river just before Mystic. I am still shaken


Glad you're still with us and were fast enough to save the family. God bless and be with you!
88planoAg
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This was posted yesterday afternoon on Facebook by a local meteorologist:

"Rain bomb potential. Earlier this week I talked about similarities on this week's weather maps to what we saw in the great July flood of 2002. So far this week rain has been manageable in SA but there have been some channels of 4"+ rainfall west of SA between Uvalde and Del Rio. Tonight, that channel will shift eastward, very close by, between SA and Rocksprings. The Del Rio weather balloon this morning shows a nearly saturated atmosphere from the ground up to 45,000 feet. That's like a nine mile deep, soaking wet sponge hanging overhead in the atmosphere.

Upper level wind currents will be converging over the hill country the next 24-36 hours. That says to me, there is potential at least, for a rain bomb event with rain totals over 6" where rains channel up and "train" over the same track for an extended period. These events usually seem to develop at night and can result in severe flash flooding.

Conventional computer models are notoriously poor at forecasting these events because the grid scale of most models is much too coarse to pick them up. That being said there is one high resolution model that is hinting at such an event developing tonight. That's enough for me to take notice and you should too. The ingredients are there, and we'll see how it plays out. Just remember we recently lost 13 people in a flash flood. We may not be in tornado alley but we do live in flash flood alley. If you come across a flooded roadway with one of those flood sticks and you can't see the 1 foot mark"
TexasRebel
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Most of them might as well be betting on horse races.

…Just using statistics and choosing the closest existing model.

That's AI, folks; behind the curtain. It only works with a complete database which is impossible to achieve with an infinite number of inputs and combinations.
Poot
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chilimuybueno said:

My wife and daughter and I barely made it. Had to climb trees to escape the flood. House badly damaged. It came up so fast hard to believe. If I hadn't woken up when I did, I wouldn't be typing this. Ours was the last house on the river just before Mystic. I am still shaken


Curiously, what made you wake up? What time was that?
Rapier108
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Edit: Live stream ended.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
chilimuybueno
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There was a lot of thunder, but I started hearing trees snapping. Many cypress snapped in half. It looks like a war zone.
the most cool guy
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88planoAg said:

This was posted yesterday afternoon on Facebook by a local meteorologist:

"Rain bomb potential. Earlier this week I talked about similarities on this week's weather maps to what we saw in the great July flood of 2002. So far this week rain has been manageable in SA but there have been some channels of 4"+ rainfall west of SA between Uvalde and Del Rio. Tonight, that channel will shift eastward, very close by, between SA and Rocksprings. The Del Rio weather balloon this morning shows a nearly saturated atmosphere from the ground up to 45,000 feet. That's like a nine mile deep, soaking wet sponge hanging overhead in the atmosphere.

Upper level wind currents will be converging over the hill country the next 24-36 hours. That says to me, there is potential at least, for a rain bomb event with rain totals over 6" where rains channel up and "train" over the same track for an extended period. These events usually seem to develop at night and can result in severe flash flooding.

Conventional computer models are notoriously poor at forecasting these events because the grid scale of most models is much too coarse to pick them up. That being said there is one high resolution model that is hinting at such an event developing tonight. That's enough for me to take notice and you should too. The ingredients are there, and we'll see how it plays out. Just remember we recently lost 13 people in a flash flood. We may not be in tornado alley but we do live in flash flood alley. If you come across a flooded roadway with one of those flood sticks and you can't see the 1 foot mark"

I must say, that dude nailed it in every way.
flashplayer
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That meteorologist is Steve Browne and the man is the best at what he did (now retired), and he still posts his own forecasts on major events regularly on Facebook. Cool guy.
Urban Country Boy
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chilimuybueno said:

My wife and daughter and I barely made it. Had to climb trees to escape the flood. House badly damaged. It came up so fast hard to believe. If I hadn't woken up when I did, I wouldn't be typing this. Ours was the last house on the river just before Mystic. I am still shaken
What do you need? Here for you.
jopatura
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From what I can find on the timeline:

4:20 AM -

A flash flood warning is issued for the Hunt area. This does not include Kerrville. I can't find the NWS text but I've found multiple timestamps referring to it being called at 4:20 am.

From an Austin Met - "4:20 AM - RARE FLASH FLOOD EMERGENCY ISSUED for western Kerr and Bandera counties until 7 AM!

Life-threatening situation unfolding due to 10" of rain in just the last few hours. The heaviest rain is now moving out of this area, but the damage is done.

Fast-rising waters on creeks, streams, and rivers here. Please avoid driving if at all possible!"

Edit: Found the NWS alert. Something to note is that all images I can find only box off Western Kerr county. It doesn't extend down the Guadalupe River until 5:34 AM.

BREAKING NEWS ALERT - LIVES AT RISK!! - KERR COUNTY TEXAS - THIS IS NOT A DRILL.

IF YOU ARE NEAR THE SOUTHFORK OF THE GUADALUPE RIVER OR IN A FLOOD PLAIN NEAR THE GUADALUPE RIVER GET! OUT! NOW!

From NWS: Much of Highways 27 and 39 will flood as the disastrous flood wave moves downstream over the next several hours. Motorists should avoid any travel in the flood plain. Low residences above Center Point to below Comfort will flood. Many homes and businesses in Kerrville will flood.

The National Weather Service has declared a FLASH FLOOD EMERGENCY!!!

Guadalupe River at Hunt affecting Kerr County.

* WHAT...Major flooding is occurring and major flooding is forecast.

* WHERE...Guadalupe River at Hunt.

* WHEN...Until just after midnight tonight. (July 5)

* IMPACTS...At 32.0 feet, Disastrous life threatening flooding puts
water over the roads of lowest camps and resorts from the
headwaters of the North and South Forks to below Comfort. Much of
Highways 27 and 39 will flood as the disastrous flood wave moves
downstream over the next several hours. Motorists should avoid any
travel in the flood plain. Low residences above Center Point to
below Comfort will flood. Many homes and businesses in Kerrville
will flood.

Kerr County has experienced several devastating floods throughout its history. The worst recorded flood on the Guadalupe River at Kerrville occurred on July 2, 1932, reaching a staggering 39.00 feet.

Another significant and tragic flood was on July 17, 1987, when the river crested at 37.72 feet. This flood is unfortunately remembered for the loss of 10 lives, all teenagers on a church bus swept away by the raging waters near Comfort.

While many floods have impacted Kerr County, these two stand out for their extreme river stages and the tragic casualties associated with the 1987 event.

This is not a drill. Alert anyone you know in the affected areas NOW!

5:34 AM -

...FLASH FLOOD EMERGENCY FOR THE GUADALUPE RIVER FROM HUNT THROUGH KERRVILE AND CENTER POINT...

The National Weather Service in Austin/San Antonio has issued a

* Flash Flood Warning for... East Central Kerr County in south central Texas...

* Until noon CDT Friday.

* At 534 AM CDT, Automated rain gauges indicate a large and deadly flood wave is moving down the Guadalupe River. Flash flooding is already occurring.

This is a FLASH FLOOD EMERGENCY for the Guadalupe River from Hunt through Kerrvile and Center Point. This is a PARTICULARLY DANGEROUS SITUATION. SEEK HIGHER GROUND NOW!

HAZARD...Life threatening flash flooding. Thunderstorms producing flash flooding.

SOURCE...Radar and automated gauges.

IMPACT...This is a PARTICULARLY DANGEROUS SITUATION. Residents and campers should SEEK HIGHER GROUND NOW! Life threatening flash flooding along the river is expected.

* Some locations that will experience flash flooding include... The Guadalupe River at Hunt, Kerrville, and Center Point.

***

This says to me that people around Hunt would have gotten a phone alert at 4:20am and the people around Kerrville would not have gotten an alert until 5:34am. How many people could have made it to higher ground in an hour and 10 minutes? Camp Mystic probably had no chance, but heads in Kerrville should roll.
 
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