***** Round 2: Spurs vs. Blazers *****

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TheDino
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Start your own dumbass thread debating Parker in the HOF.

Meanwhile, we will talk about Portland/SA in this one.

[This message has been edited by TheDino (edited 5/7/2014 8:48a).]
Houston Summit
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Why are Spurs fans turning on each other in here?
Guitarsoup
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You think Fisher, Horry and Kerr are getting in? Parker was the 3rd best player on the 05 team. (Finals MVP vote was 6:4 Duncan to Manu) He was probably the second best player on the 03 team, but he was consistently replaced in clutch time by Speedy Claxton because he was still young and making so many mistakes. Parker shot like 40%/25% with 14p/3a for the 03 playoffs. It isn't like he was an amazing star leading the team to the Finals. That was Duncan's team. And that's why Pop tried to trade Parker to upgrade after 03.

Remember the Kerr game? Why was Kerr in? Because Parker sucked so bad and Speedy needed a break. Parker played like 10 minutes in that game and had zero points. What about Duncan's close out near-quad-double. Parker was a no-show.

Pop has even said that Parker developed beyond his expectations and has become a better player than they thought he would.
aggie93
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I don't know how you can compare Billups to Parker. Billups bounced around for years and wasn't even a consistent starter until he got to Detroit. Then he had a really nice run of a few years in Detroit with a couple of peak seasons where they made the Finals and he won the MVP as the best of 5 really good players on that team that snuck up and beat the Lakers. After '05 Billups started a slow decline and turned in to a journeyman, he has changed teams 12 times in his career that I counted.

Parker started right out of the gate for San Antonio, in fact he has stared all but 13 games out of 940 in his career. He won a Title in his 2nd year and has added 2 more along with over 180 playoff games already. Most have considered him the best player on the Spurs for the last several years and those Spurs teams. The Spurs have only finished below the 3 seed in the West once in Parker's career.

You simply can't dismiss winning, it weighs more than stats or other accolades. If you are part of a dynasty that wins you get rewarded for that when it comes to HoF voting. Also you have to remember that there are quite a few Intl voters for the HoF and even though Parker doesn't have a Manu like Intl resume he is a highly respected Intl player.
TheDino
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quote:
Why are Spurs fans turning on each other in here?


Because Soupy likes to pick fights.
West Texan
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quote:
Why are Spurs fans turning on each other in here?


There aren't any Blazers fans and we just dominated game 1, so no one can jump off a cliff.

Seriously though, this argument needs to gtfo of this thread.
Guitarsoup
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Their stats are pretty similar. About the same number of All-NBA selections and All-Star appearances. Both are a Finals MVP, despite neither being the best player on their respective teams. Yeah, Chauncey did bounce around a ridiculous amount, but maybe that has more to do with being drafted by Rick Carlisle and the super disfunctional post-Bird Celtics and Parker being drafted to the Duncan/Robinson/Pop Spurs.

I don't really expect the 90s Celtics, Nuggets, Magic and Timberwolves to be making intelligent personelle decisions. The Nuggets traded him for Chris Gatling and Tariq Abdul-Wahad. He had a pretty crazy career, that's for sure.

Had Billups had the good fortune of being drafted into a great situation like Parker, maybe he would have had more stability in his career and would have had a better career. Things did kind of take off for him when he was able to sign as a free agent with a good franchise with good teammates and with a good coach (Rick Carlisle.) Those were things Parker was blessed into having from day one.

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 5/7/2014 9:08a).]
West Texan
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Back to actual discussion of this series...

Pop's decision to play Baynes was brilliant and I don't think it was entirely luck either. Obviously, I don't expect Baynes to consistently drop 10 and 7, but this is a matchup where he can get spot minutes an be fairly effective. Lopez is a pretty good rim protector, but not a great pick and roll defender, so letting Baynes set high screens and forcing the fro to try and stick with a guard is tough task. Add in that Baynes is certainly not afraid roll hard and throw it down, and Lopez has to protect the rim against two people instead of the pick and pop. On the other end of the court, Lopez has about as much offensive skill as Baynes, so all he has to do is step into the lane and contest drives. Baynes is an excellent rebounder, so he does a good job on both ends in that regard. Baynes hasn't suddenly become an all star, but Pop found a way to throw something new at Portland and give Timmy, Tiago, and Boris even more rest.
Guitarsoup
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Agree, West Texan. This team is ridiculously deep. We are getting decent production from Baynes, who is probably our 10th man. Portland doesn't really have a 7th man they can count on.
Ulrich
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Plus, while Baynes isn't exactly an all-star, he's enormous. It's got to be taxing handling him on both ends no matter how good you are. As much as the Spurs dominated that first game, they are also playing a game of attrition with the shallow Blazers lineup hoping that they can wear them down by the end of the series. Make the Blazers starters play a lot of hard minutes while saving the Spurs marquee players as much as possible.
Guitarsoup
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Even if Baynes isn't as productive like that again, they have to take him seriously. He had 10 points/7boards (3 offensive) in just under 15 minutes. They have to play him hard.

No break for guys that won't get much bench rest because Thomas Robinson is terrible.
West Texan
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On the same note of Portland's lack of depth, last night Matthews fouled out and the Marcus had 5 fouls with about 7 and a half to play. Along with just working those guys to death and wearing their legs out, foul trouble for those starters has to be a real concern for Stotts. This is where Tony and Manu can have a huge impact outside of their stat line. Constantly attacking the rim and trying to get deeper into that Blazer bench can win us a game where we don't click as well as we did last night.
aggie93
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GS,

Parker still has 2 more rings (and very close to having a few more) with tread still left on the tires. Did he land in a great situation? Sure, but he made the most of it. He also has 40 more playoff games and a ton more wins. Parker has been a Top 20 player in the league for a decade and a Top 10 player since '07. Stats are less relevant because the Spurs play a style that inhibits any individual putting up huge numbers consistently, it's all about winning and winning is what they do.

Billups also played with a young KG in Minnesota prior to going to Detroit and couldn't make it work, he wasn't always some abused child. You don't bounce around like he has just because of luck, not when you have the talent Billups did. BTW, Billups likely has a shot at the HoF but his resume isn't close to Parker's at this point.
Sher Thing
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Going out of town so have to sell my Game 2 tickets. PM me if interested. Section 116.
Brian Earl Spilner
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quote:
You think Fisher, Horry and Kerr are getting in?


Who said that? I figured you were smart enough to figure out what I meant. Rings alone don't mean ****, hence I was pointing out you bringing up those three is completely irrelevant.

Anyway you already said you think he's getting in anyway, so this whole thing is moo.

Back to the series discussion please.

[This message has been edited by Brian Earl Spilner (edited 5/7/2014 9:28a).]
mrnegative
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I was on react last night!!! I was Jacob.
jr15aggie
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It really does speak to the brilliance of Pop. Baynes doesn't play any meaningful minutes against the Mavs. But Pop sees a match-up problem he likes so he sticks Baynes in early in game 1 against Portland and Baynes friggin goes off on those guys. That isn't by chance that happened. No way Pop knew that Baynes would play as well as he did, but he knew Baynes would help us against this team.

I felt bad for the Portland coach at one point, blowing wind through his cheeks, not having an answer. He has no clue how to counter... no clue how to take some random guy off his bench and make it work, so he keeps sending the same 6/7 guys on the court hoping for the best.


I would love to be a fly on the wall if those guys are ever sitting around 15-20 years from now, old farts talking about their coaching days,

"Heh, remember that time I put Baynes into game 1 and he tore you a new rectum!"

"Hehe... yeah, I didn't even know that guy was on your team you dirty *******!"
spaceman
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Game 2 won't be a repeat of this. The Blazers will come out swinging. They outscored the Spurs in the 3rd AND 4th quarters, and I assume the Spurs did not treat the 3rd quarter as garbage time. They're too experienced for that. No, Portland figured out something and I expect them to pick up where they left off.

GSG.
Brian Earl Spilner
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quote:
They outscored the Spurs in the 3rd AND 4th quarters, and I assume the Spurs did not treat the 3rd quarter as garbage time. They're too experienced for that. No, Portland figured out something and I expect them to pick up where they left off.


You're not wrong, but they outscored the Spurs in the second half by a combined two points.
Ulrich
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The Spurs didn't treat the second half like garbage time, but they definitely didn't play with quite as much intensity as in the first half. There was also a stretch in the second half where Pop left the bench in longer than he normally would have, and another stretch where Aldridge was getting foul calls every time he touched the ball. When the starters came back in, they opened the lead right back up. As of now, Portland has no answer for Parker and can't consistently get high percentage shots. That could easily change because they have a lot of good players, but right now the second half doesn't bother me very much. The Spurs came out with a great game plan that does not seem to be broken.
TheDino
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Portland figured out that Aldridge was going to get to the line each time he touched it. I thought the Spurs did a great job of weathering the "lets get Portland back into this game" mode from the refs.

Portland beat SA by 1 in each second half quarter. I'm not worried about that one bit. Heck, some dude came off of their bench and hit three 3s in a row in the 4th. Spurs win by 30 if that doesn't happen.

Portland will no question come out and play better tomorrow. But I saw SA get whatever they wanted on offense. And if it stays that way, Portland can't win 4 games.
jr15aggie
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dp


[This message has been edited by jr15aggie (edited 5/7/2014 11:19a).]
jr15aggie
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Yeah, I'm not going to complain considering the outcome of the game, but this game would have been very ugly if not for the the crazy number of free throws they gave Portland. The foul calls on both teams got stupid at the end.

Lillard literally drove into the lane and did some sort of mid-flight flop and there was nobody touching him... FOUL!

Splitter literally doesn't move, doesn't jump, with hands in the air... Aldridge makes 2-3 pump fakes, Splitter doesn't bite... so Aldridge simply jumps into Splitter while shooting.... FOUL!


IMO, that's about the only thing Portland really figured out. The spurs were the only team scoring consistently from the floor and didn't need the free throws... if the refs had kept their whistles quiet we would have seen the lead grow in the 2nd half.
Ganondorf
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The final box score stat for FTA was closer than it felt (31-25 advantage Portland) but it was 26-13 at some point in the 3rd.

As stated, the refs got dumb for both teams at the end. Every year we complain about the playoff refs and nothing changes.
Ulrich
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The Spurs adjusted to the officiating by forcing more contact on offense and the officials got a little more even toward the end as well. I'd prefer that they just limit themselves to only calling real fouls, but I think the Spurs adjusted as well as you can.
Sher Thing
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Last years NBA Finals was the best officiating series I have ever seen. Sucks to see how poorly its been this year throughout the playoffs.
Phat32
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How will the Spurs/Heat Finals matchup be this year?
Brian Earl Spilner
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^ Spurs in 6.
jr15aggie
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I think it's why we all fear the matchup vs. OKC... when they beat us in the West Finals 2 years ago not only did they shoot really well, but they were allowed to be EXTREMELY physical with us with no calls... but on the other end were allowed to go to the basket with whistles being blown constantly.
Knife_Party
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I'm predicting that Westbrook wears down and/or breaks (in the knee area) either this series against the Clippers or if it happens, against the Spurs. He's not played a ton of minutes all season long, which indicates to me that he's not fully healed from his previous knee injury. He's now getting minutes in the high 30's and low 40's in a playoff basketball atmosphere.
aggie93
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I think the Clips take out OKC, they are a bad matchup for them. The Spurs will beat the Clips though because they will use their athleticism and one one one style against them forcing them to take bad shots while the Spurs slice and dice them.

I'd love for Miami to go down but I don't see it, I think it is SA/Miami redux this year and it could go either way.
Guitarsoup
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OKC doesn't bother me at all. Sure, they beat us in 2012. Then they traded James Harden for Jeremy Lamb and Steven Adams. Westbook's been shooting terribly in the playoffs this year. Hope Ibaka doesn't go 20-20 like he did against us. I think we will be fine.
jr15aggie
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Spurs/Miami probably is inevitable.

Don't know if anybody else thought this, but last night at the end of the game they said, "And the defending Western Conference Champions take game 1"... I couldn't help but think, again, that it should have been "Defending NBA Champions". I still can't believe what happened in Game 6 last year... cannot... believe it!
aggie93
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I would rather avoid OKC, I just think the temptation of the league to have Durant vs Lebron will be hard for the league to pass up, even though I think Miami would crush OKC. Durant causes problems for the Spurs just like Dirk used to in his prime.

I kind of think OKC used up all their energy to get past Memphis though and the Clips seem to have a chip on their shoulder after the Sterling event.
Sher Thing
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I think Clips take out OKC also. The Clips are for real this year and would present a tough matchup for SA. I think I would still rather play them than OKC though. OKC just presents terrible matchups for us.

LAC with Doc will be much tougher than Del Negro though.
 
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