Every death in this war is the result of Putin. Trump is just scared to stand up to him.
Trump-Vance-Zelenskyy
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1748 Replies |
Last: 5 mo ago by ts5641
He actually did reply. Looks like he might be seeing the writing on the wall and distancing himself from Z (at least for this news cycle, after which he'll probably be right back on the Z train in a few days).
Unfortunately, until there is an election, no one has a voice in Ukraine. https://t.co/kLuVlRiRqw
— Lindsey Graham (@LindseyGrahamSC) March 2, 2025
I think Putin has something on Trump, because Trump just flipped our foreign policy of 80+ years in a matter of weeks
No more endless war. No more US tax dollars for endless war.
TheRealJacob said:
I think Putin has something on Trump, because Trump just flipped our foreign policy of 80+ years in a matter of weeks
Care to actually discuss more then making a climbing that is …..well weird? And incorrect. Remember Trump has been president before and has an actual history of implementing foreign policy.
The problem here is you do not have the power to expel him from your home. They are just going to keep killing more and more of your family.JFABNRGR said:If someone comes to your house kills your pet and maybe a family member, then decides to occupy a third of your home; your ok with that because you might believe the promise that the occupier who shed blood won't do it anymore and the two of you will live peacefully together while you watch them use your garden for profit?Funky Winkerbean said:Waffledynamics said:Funky Winkerbean said:
I pick the soldiers being killed on both sides because the egos of their leaders is preventing peace.
This doesn't make any sense since the current track leads to more death and brutality, but the weaker side loses.
It doesn't make any sense I don't want more people to die? Ok.
FWIW putin has not agreed to ANY cease fire or promise to future security.
We know he had secret documents in Mar A Lago, we also know he had long phone calls with those documents with Putin, he just stopped cyberattacks against Russia, and is siding with Putin on the war in Ukraine with Russian narratives. He is acting as if he is compromised.
He's acting as if he has determined a good relationship with Russia is more important than Ukraine.TheRealJacob said:
We know he had secret documents in Mar A Lago, we also know he had long phone calls with those documents with Putin, he just stopped cyberattacks against Russia, and is siding with Putin on the war in Ukraine with Russian narratives. He is acting as if he is compromised.
And if it results in Russia not aligning with China against the US, he may be right.
2016 is calling. They want their narrative back.TheRealJacob said:
We know he had secret documents in Mar A Lago, we also know he had long phone calls with those documents with Putin, he just stopped cyberattacks against Russia, and is siding with Putin on the war in Ukraine with Russian narratives. He is acting as if he is compromised.
That may be true and I hope it is true, but if it isn't and Putin has something on Trump this could be bad for America in the long run.
Can I interest you in some stories about pee tapes?TheRealJacob said:
That may be true and I hope it is true, but if it isn't and Putin has something on Trump this could be bad for America in the long run.
The problem is that even a motivated, President-Trump-supporting observer can't figure out what the hell our actual goals are. It's Trump Confusion Syndrome.
I've seen *all* of these put forward, but all of them can't be true. Some are mutually exclusive.
Again, TCS seems to be part of President Trump's style, but it also makes reading the tea leaves in the moment pretty difficult.
- Are we trying to move our counter Russian expansionism as a threat to NATO from semi-proxy war with no US assets at risk to US economic integration with assets at risk?
- Are we trying to permanently realign Russia away from China and toward the US? Over against decades of moves trying to prevent their integration with Europe (including by President Trump!)?
- Are we trying to de-risk Europe from war?
- Are we trying to 64D chess Europe into increasing their spending to counter Russia?
- Are we trying to exit NATO obligations altogether by signaling a hard turn into isolationism?
- Are we trying to reduce spending?
I've seen *all* of these put forward, but all of them can't be true. Some are mutually exclusive.
Again, TCS seems to be part of President Trump's style, but it also makes reading the tea leaves in the moment pretty difficult.
We're trying to end the blood bath in Ukraine and get out of some of the idiotic commitments (and our involvement in censorship/subjugation) in Europe, while improving our energy/economic independence by lowering tensions/sanctions with Russia, thereby helping Europe along the way.
HTH.
HTH.
Solid retort by the Graham X crew. Zelenskyy thinks this war will last a long time. How convenient for him
It allows him to claim victory in multiple directions.
The media and liberals desperately want him to have a doctrine they can then target and attack.
Trump wants peace when possible. Targeted, immediate, and strong deterrents when needed. Economic opportunity for America to be the biggest economic force on Earth.
The media and liberals desperately want him to have a doctrine they can then target and attack.
Trump wants peace when possible. Targeted, immediate, and strong deterrents when needed. Economic opportunity for America to be the biggest economic force on Earth.
When you say "idiotic commitments" do you mean NATO?
Russia has almost nothing to do with US energy or economic independence.
Establishing a hard economic presence in Ukraine will increase tensions with Russia, not decrease them.
Russia has almost nothing to do with US energy or economic independence.
Establishing a hard economic presence in Ukraine will increase tensions with Russia, not decrease them.
By this logic any of those outcomes are acceptable, even if they are mutually contradictory... so we don't actually have any goals, and anything that happens is fine.
yep. Russian hookers peeing on him. It's all in the memo!! Didn't anyone read the memo?!TheRealJacob said:
I think Putin has something on Trump, because Trump just flipped our foreign policy of 80+ years in a matter of weeks
We are doing two things, in my opinion…
1. Ending the grift…Ukraine has become a hub for laundering US tax dollars into the pockets of political leaders, both foreign and domestic (including both Zelenskyy and the Biden family, among several others)…
2. We need Russia's help to keep China in check…
1. Ending the grift…Ukraine has become a hub for laundering US tax dollars into the pockets of political leaders, both foreign and domestic (including both Zelenskyy and the Biden family, among several others)…
2. We need Russia's help to keep China in check…
I mean a commitment to Europe's security, yes. Largely yes nato in the post cold-war world, which has evolved into a threat to free speech and peace, among other things (such as commerce).Zobel said:
When you say "idiotic commitments" do you mean NATO?
Russia has almost nothing to do with US energy or economic independence.
Establishing a hard economic presence in Ukraine will increase tensions with Russia, not decrease them.
I won't get into your point as to Russia's impact on US energy or economic independence, but to say that BRICS+, and the Sino-Russian alliance, as well as sanctions/the conflict in Ukraine have had a big impact on the energy market over the past few years. The impact of this war, for instance from an economic perspective far outweighs the cost of 'aid' to Ukraine etc.
A 'hard economic presence' in Ukraine and Russia alike would be beneficial as trade/economic/social integration is tremendously helpful to deter/prevent future conflicts. This is the geopolitical/economic version of 'peace keepers.' When this is absent from an industrial/economic perspective, things like China-Taiwan/Koreas are a challenge.
FireAg said:
We are doing two things, in my opinion…
1. Ending the grift…Ukraine has become a hub for laundering US tax dollars into the pockets of political leaders, both foreign and domestic (including both Zelenskyy and the Biden family, among several others)…
2. We need Russia's help to keep China in check…
Number 2 Putin is not going to work with us. Never. Ever. Ever. Don't trust them.
Just don't back either country period. GTFO.
That all depends on Russia's desire for integration. Integrating Russia economically with the West is a bit like the neocon desire to bring "democracy" to the world. It only works if they want it.
If they view it as they have in the past - as a question of sphere of influence - the US integrating Ukraine economically into a US-led or EU-led system is a problem.
If their underlying goals are security-based, US assets standing between them and the geopolitically significant choke points (like the Bessarabian Gap, Suwalki corridor) makes the US a direct threat.
If they view it as they have in the past - as a question of sphere of influence - the US integrating Ukraine economically into a US-led or EU-led system is a problem.
If their underlying goals are security-based, US assets standing between them and the geopolitically significant choke points (like the Bessarabian Gap, Suwalki corridor) makes the US a direct threat.
For the conservatives (leftists and CM sock bots no need to respond please)
does it make sense when Trump cuts off weapons shipments and Zelensky comes groveling back
would it make Trump more popular in the USA to have Volodomir show up at the White House in a suit and tie and sign the agreement in front of the media?
or less popular because everyone would say he is a bully?
does it make sense when Trump cuts off weapons shipments and Zelensky comes groveling back
would it make Trump more popular in the USA to have Volodomir show up at the White House in a suit and tie and sign the agreement in front of the media?
or less popular because everyone would say he is a bully?
The Fall Guy said:FireAg said:
We are doing two things, in my opinion…
1. Ending the grift…Ukraine has become a hub for laundering US tax dollars into the pockets of political leaders, both foreign and domestic (including both Zelenskyy and the Biden family, among several others)…
2. We need Russia's help to keep China in check…
Number 2 Putin is not going to work with us. Never. Ever. Ever. Don't trust them.
Just don't back either country period. GTFO.
It's dangerous to speak in absolutes…especially when you have zero experience in foreign relations…
Russia is primarily two things; (a) a piss ant economy, and (b) oil/gas (and minerals/metals) exporter. (Also a nuclear power).
"Russia's goals" are mainly those of its ruling class, which are to maintain control and keep getting richer. If we establish trade with the US and Europe again on an advantageous basis for those things it's not real complicated, imho. Ukraine as a 'neutral' or independent place matters as much to America's interests as Kazakhstan (which oh btw we aren't fighting over, to other readers).
"Russia's goals" are mainly those of its ruling class, which are to maintain control and keep getting richer. If we establish trade with the US and Europe again on an advantageous basis for those things it's not real complicated, imho. Ukraine as a 'neutral' or independent place matters as much to America's interests as Kazakhstan (which oh btw we aren't fighting over, to other readers).
Europe Pledges To Send Ukraine Their Entire Military Might Of 3 Panzer Tanks And A Nazi Motorcycle With A Sidecar https://t.co/aODB3mPs99 pic.twitter.com/8mE2cT4jr3
— The Babylon Bee (@TheBabylonBee) March 3, 2025
Oh … the democrats sabotaged it
— Phil Holloway ✈️ (@PhilHollowayEsq) March 2, 2025
I’m shocked. Shocked!
“Before meeting Trump, Zelensky met with anti-Trump Democrats who advised him to reject the terms of the mineral deal the president was offering, according to Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn)” pic.twitter.com/XFCQEH2hoq
western europe needs access to cheap natural gas because their energy demands are high and their wind farms are a disaster. russia needs buyers not named China for their plentiful proven reserves of natural gas. Seems like a win-win to keep Russia fat and happy selling gas to the west instead of continuing to cozy up with the regime that is taking over the world.
Victor Davis Hanson did the best job I've seen of describing the Trump/Zelenskyy/Putin relationship in the following video. And for those questioning the U.S.'s working with Putin, skip to the 7:19 mark to see the historical context and why this is a good thing. Trump knows what he's doing.
Newtonag said:
I'm not ok with it but if I can't push them out, my neighbors aren't willing to come into my house to help and risk their death or bring the war to their house, and I'm losing said neighbor's support, I might try to keep the 2/3's of the house I still have before I lose it all. (While more thousands die)
And that my friend is YOUR moral right and we should respect that same right for President Zelensky and the Ukrainian people, while acknowledging a monster invaded their sovereign country, who years ago, we committed to supporting their security for giving up their nukes, while also observing countless and continuing barbaric acts by the russians.
“You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me.”
- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
Just to be clear there were no guarantees of US military assistance as part of the Budapest Memorandum. It basically gave us justification if we WANTED to help, but it did not REQUIRE us to help.JFABNRGR said:Newtonag said:
I'm not ok with it but if I can't push them out, my neighbors aren't willing to come into my house to help and risk their death or bring the war to their house, and I'm losing said neighbor's support, I might try to keep the 2/3's of the house I still have before I lose it all. (While more thousands die)
And that my friend is YOUR moral right and we should respect that same right for President Zelensky and the Ukrainian people, while acknowledging a monster invaded their sovereign country, who years ago, we committed to supporting their security for giving up their nukes, while also observing countless and continuing barbaric acts by the russians.
We probably wouldn't be in this mess if there had been security requirements, but then again that deal probably wouldn't have been made in the first place if there were.
JFABNRGR said:Newtonag said:
I'm not ok with it but if I can't push them out, my neighbors aren't willing to come into my house to help and risk their death or bring the war to their house, and I'm losing said neighbor's support, I might try to keep the 2/3's of the house I still have before I lose it all. (While more thousands die)
And that my friend is YOUR moral right and we should respect that same right for President Zelensky and the Ukrainian people, while acknowledging a monster invaded their sovereign country, who years ago, we committed to supporting their security for giving up their nukes, while also observing countless and continuing barbaric acts by the russians.
Where does it state we agreed to that? Show me. Because I can't find that anywhere.
I think this is the correct answer.SA68AG said:He's acting as if he has determined a good relationship with Russia is more important than Ukraine.TheRealJacob said:
We know he had secret documents in Mar A Lago, we also know he had long phone calls with those documents with Putin, he just stopped cyberattacks against Russia, and is siding with Putin on the war in Ukraine with Russian narratives. He is acting as if he is compromised.
And if it results in Russia not aligning with China against the US, he may be right.
The cries of this widow will echo across the globe like a battle cry.
Mrs. Erika Kirk
Mrs. Erika Kirk
Reducing Russia's geopolitical interest to the desires of the oligarchs etc. isn't consistent with their behavior. I think you are right pre-Putin, but Putin broke the oligarchs by making examples of Gusinsky and Khodorkovsky. Putin has financial interests, sure, but also geopolitical ones.
This map remains relevant, because it continues to provide a model that predicts Russian behavior.
This map remains relevant, because it continues to provide a model that predicts Russian behavior.
CNN's Scott Jennings🔥: “All Zelensky had to do was put on a tie, show up, smile, say ‘thank you,’ sign the papers, and have lunch. He couldn't do it.”
— Melissa Hallman (@dotconnectinga) March 1, 2025
WaPo's Josh Rogin: “I can’t believe I’m about to say this, but I actually agree with Scott and everything that he said was… pic.twitter.com/IA98cHMIBg
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