Trump-Vance-Zelenskyy

175,805 Views | 1748 Replies | Last: 6 mo ago by ts5641
J. Walter Weatherman
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nortex97 said:

That report really depends on the word/truthfulness of Zelensky. People can choose who to believe, of course, and it's not really a dichotomy. On their side, the Russians claimed to have shot down their own drones on getting the energy ceasefire;
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It should be especially noted that at the time of receiving the order from the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation to temporarily cease attacks on the energy infrastructure of Ukraine, there were seven Russian attack drones in the air, targeting Ukrainian energy infrastructure facilities related to the military-industrial complex, located in the Nikolaev region .

The Russian Air Defense Forces were ordered to neutralize the unmanned aerial vehicles , six of which were shot down by the Pantsir air defense missile and gun system, one by the Russian Aerospace Forces' duty fighter.
The usual social media "experts" have already accused Russia of breaking the "deal" pretty much immediately after details of the call were released. So quickly, as to almost be intentionally preemptive.
There was a Russian drone strike underway that night, as per the quote above, a regular working day by now of Russian military pummeling 404 (don't let rk notice that part). But, as usual, no evidence was provided to show any 404 plant, grid or gas storage actually being hit. On the other hand, the AFU launch on a Russian oil facility is confirmed.
Meh, whatever is my perspective…let's just see the Jeddah talks this week.



Agreed that both sides are incentivized to lie/exaggerate what the other is doing, which is why Armchair Warlord neglected to mention Russia's attacks. Hopefully the talks are productive this week.
LMCane
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CS78 said:

The more Ukraine shows they can hit oil refineries deep inside Russia, with homegrown missiles, the more it seems they actually do have the cards. Russia can't stop them and it's why Putin asked for a halt to infrastructure and not civilian areas. That wasn't an equal offer for each side. If the US totally walks, no doubt Ukraine losses will increase. But, I think they can still fight without us for the next decade, if that's the path they choose.
NOT A CHANCE

there is a huge difference between firing German or French SSMs into Russia.

and having the equipment and training and money to field an army of 450,000 to defend very long borders.
CS78
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We already saw how that worked out. That was with Russia at their best. Do they even have any armor left to make a large assault?
oh no
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AG




Quote:

"I rarely agree with President Trump, but his latest controversial statements about Ukraine are mostly true. They only seem preposterous because western audiences have been fed a steady diet of disinformation about Ukraine for more than a decade. It is time to set the record straight on three key points that illuminate why Ukrainians and former President Joe Biden not merely Russian President Vladimir Putin bear significant responsibility for the outbreak and perpetuation of war in Ukraine.

"First, as recently documented by overwhelming forensic evidence, and affirmed even by a Kyiv court, it was Ukrainian right-wing militants who started the violence in 2014 that provoked Russia's initial invasion of the country's southeast including Crimea. …

"Second, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky contributed to a wider war by violating peace deals with Russia [known as Minsk 1 and 2] and seeking NATO military aid and membership. …

"Third, Joe Biden too contributed crucially to the escalation and perpetuation of fighting. … Biden raised false hopes in Ukraine, needlessly perpetuating a war that has killed or wounded hundreds of thousands in the last two years alone during which the frontlines have shifted by less than 1 percent of Ukraine's territory. …

"Even more tragic, whatever peace deal emerges after the war will be worse for Ukraine than the Minsk accords that Zelensky foolishly abandoned due to his political ambitions and nave expectation of bottomless U.S. support."
nortex97
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AG
CS78 said:

We already saw how that worked out. That was with Russia at their best. Do they even have any armor left to make a large assault?

They're not really short of armor at all.
Quote:

Despite the heavy losses, the Russian military's capacity to produce at least 100 MBTs per month suggests it can sustain its current level of offensive operations in Ukraine for the foreseeable future.

In a detailed assessment, the British Army Intelligence Services revealed that the Russian army lost about 40% fewer combat vehicles in 2023 compared to the previous year. This decrease is attributed to the evolving nature of the conflict, which became increasingly positional in 2023, and Russia's significant shift to a defensive posture for much of the year.

Before the conflict, the Russian army boasted a diverse and sizeable MBT fleet, estimated at around 12,000 tanks. This included various models such as 650 T-72B/BA, 850 T-72B3, 530 T-72B3M, 310 T-80BV/U, 170 T-80BVM, 350 T-90A, 67 T-90M, and thousands of older T-72 and T-80 models, with a reserve of 200 T-90 tanks.

However, since early October 2023, the Russian army has ramped up its offensive in eastern Ukraine. This period has seen a spike in Russian armored vehicle losses, with up to 365 MBTs and 700 other armored vehicles, including IFVs and APCs, being destroyed or incapacitated. Despite these losses, the territorial gains achieved by Russia during this offensive have been described as minor.


A spring offensive would be in the cards unless a ceasefire is fully agreed to, imho.
ReturnOfTheAg
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AG
Cool tanks

They'll all get Javelined again.
CS78
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Puts out brag video. Shows tanks being put together with open end wrenches and sledge hammers. The jokes write themselves.
oh no
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AG
CS78 said:

Puts out brag video. Shows tanks being put together with open end wrenches and sledge hammers. The jokes write themselves.
so they aren't really a threat then?
Tecolote
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AG
nortex97 said:



What an unbelievably ridiculous way to compare production levels.

Edit: Now how many T-72s does it take to get an Abrams? Kind of like how many licks to the center of a tootsie pop!
PlaneCrashGuy
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AG
CS78 said:

Puts out brag video. Shows tanks being put together with open end wrenches and sledge hammers. The jokes write themselves.


Brag video? What I just read was an assessment by British intelligence correcting your assertion that Russia is running out of tanks.
nortex97
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AG
Still tracking after Trump-goblin spoke.
oh no
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AG
Well-indoctrinated white women LOVE them some little Ukrainian dictators who used to sing and dance on tv.



How many of Biden's handlers were women?
nortex97
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AG
Talks coming Monday I guess about Black Sea ceasefire.
Quote:

According to Ushakov, the meeting in Riyadh will be mainly dedicated to the discussion of "the prospects for the possible implementation of the well-known initiative concerning the safety of navigation in the Black Sea."

During their phone call last Tuesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin supported Trump's proposal to introduce a "maritime ceasefire in the Black Sea," with the two leaders agreeing to initiate negotiations to further refine the details of such an arrangement.

"We hope that the consultations on Monday will be productive," Putin's aide noted.

Ushakov also said that he and Waltz speak on the phone "regularly" and that those communications are "quite beneficial for both sides."

The 75-year-old Senator Grigory Karasin, chair of the Foreign Relations Committee of the Russian Federal Council, has served as Russia's deputy foreign minister on two occasions and was Moscow's ambassador to the UK between 2000 and 2005.

Before becoming Bortnikov's aide last year, Colonel-General Sergey Beseda was head of the department of operational data and international relations at the FSB.

Meanwhile, Vladimir Zelensky has said that Washington will also hold a separate meeting with Ukrainian representatives in Saudi Arabia next Monday. He added that the US-Ukraine talks are set to take place either before the meeting with Russia or in parallel.
Large prisoner exchange.
BQ78
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AG
Both sides need more meat for the meat grinder. Hopefully, they let them all go home and end this thing versus running them through the mill again.
Tom Fox
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oh no said:

Well-indoctrinated white women LOVE them some little Ukrainian dictators who used to sing and dance on tv.



How many of Biden's handlers were women?


As a group, white college educated women are naive fools.
nortex97
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AG
Zelensky wants to pick who sends 'peacekeepers' (not the UN).

So, the Macron UN and Kallas wish-casting plans have both fallen apart in 24 hours.

Good sign;
nortex97
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AG

The Ukrainian delegation is prohibited by Zelensky from meeting with the Russians directly.
Next up (I think happening as I type):

More (RT):
Quote:

A Black Sea maritime truce will be one of the top issues on the agenda of the upcoming US-Russia meeting in Riyadh, US National Security Adviser Mike Waltz told CBS on Sunday. If reached, the ceasefire deal would allow both Moscow and Kiev to "move grain, fuel, and start conducting trade" in the sea again, according to the official.

Waltz hailed the US-mediated peace efforts, saying: "we're closer to peace than we ever have been." His comments come ahead of a new round of negotiations between Russian and US officials scheduled for Monday.

He described the upcoming event as "proximity talks." Apart from the Black Sea ceasefire, the sides are also expected to explore options for a wider truce, according to the national security adviser. "We'll talk the line of control… details of verification mechanisms, peace keeping, you know, freezing the lines where they are."

The issue of a "broader and permanent peace" and "security guarantees" for Kiev will also be on the table, Waltz added.

On Wednesday, Waltz said he had a phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin's foreign policy aide, Yury Ushakov, in which they discussed the details of the upcoming meeting.
Turkey's FM is meeting with Marco Rubio today as well. Turkey of course has their own 'challenges' right now but are central to any Black Sea deal.
CS78
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Been an interesting week for the Russians. Bomber base hit a few days back. Four more helicopters hit with missiles last night. If they can't protect their bomber bases deep inside country, then they have a major issue on the negotiating front.

Igor Sushko: " Russia: Ukraine struck the Engels Military Air Base in Saratov region." Bluesky
nortex97
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AG
Not really. Ukraine lost more gear than the Russians did this week, yet again, while also being out-produced/supplied. Russia's certainly not 'low' on Tu-95's or crew etc.

If anything, the strikes are intended to provoke/upset the Russians into resistance to a truce, so it reflects the Zelensky team's attitude more than anything else. As per Zelensky himself, who is back to whining about the White House:


Still waiting to hear what happens today, though, among the 'adults in the room.'
JFABNRGR
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AG
Comrade, Don't you think the strikes against russia are in defense of their sovereignty?
Don't you think Ukraine would stop fighting against russia if the invaders left?
“You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me.”
- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
nortex97
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JFABNRGR said:

Comrade, Don't you think the strikes against russia are in defense of their sovereignty?
Don't you think Ukraine would stop fighting against russia if the invaders left?
No, not at all, I think this is a reflection of the Kiev regime being angry at possibly being drug into a peace deal, which itself is clearly the best way to ensure they retain some notion of sovereignty moving forward. Zelensky (and the Brits) are obviously furious Trump's trying to work with Putin to end this.
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In fact, Witkoff demonstrated such an emotional intelligence and sensitivity to the Russian cause, that some commentators have even gone as far as noting 'this is the first time a US administration has viewed Russians as truly human.' Maybe Witkoff has an affinity for his ancestral homelandboth of his grandparents were born in Russia.

Witkoff demonstrated this in his talk with Tucker Carlson, wherein he called for Russia and the US to work togethera proposal that strikes so discordantly against previous US approaches that it's nearly surreal to hear:

Business casual 'a dios.'

I am again disheartened the Zelensky regime has no interest in ending the war.
ReturnOfTheAg
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AG
They have no interest in ending a war where they are forced to concede outlandish concessions that harm their sovereignty and future.
Slicer97
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ReturnOfTheAg said:

They have no interest in ending a war where they are forced to concede outlandish concessions that harm their sovereignty and future.
Well, their realistic options are do just that, or cease to exist altogether and become part of Russia.
backintexas2013
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ReturnOfTheAg said:

They have no interest in ending a war where they are forced to concede outlandish concessions that harm their sovereignty and future.



Then they don't have to. They can fight away. They just can't keep taking our money and weapons. They are a sovereign nation. Let them pay their own way.
Ellis Wyatt
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Quote:


Zelenskyy has fully embraced the democrat talking points. Just another clue that people with good sense need to demand we distance ourselves from this quagmire.
Ellis Wyatt
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ReturnOfTheAg said:

They have no interest in ending a war where they are forced to concede outlandish concessions that harm their sovereignty and future.
They have no choice other than continuing to feed people and money into the meat grinder. That is reality.
ReturnOfTheAg
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backintexas2013 said:

ReturnOfTheAg said:

They have no interest in ending a war where they are forced to concede outlandish concessions that harm their sovereignty and future.



Then they don't have to. They can fight away. They just can't keep taking our money and weapons. They are a sovereign nation. Let them pay their own way.


Agreed

Fight on, their choice not ours
J. Walter Weatherman
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And again, only one party can end the war today if they actually wanted to.
CS78
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nortex97 said:


If anything, the strikes are intended to provoke/upset the Russians into resistance to a truce, so it reflects the Zelensky team's attitude more than anything else.


Some liberal level gymnastics.
nortex97
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AG
CS78 said:

nortex97 said:


If anything, the strikes are intended to provoke/upset the Russians into resistance to a truce, so it reflects the Zelensky team's attitude more than anything else.
Some liberal level gymnastics.
I mean, he couldn't be much clearer if he wanted to. He wants more war and funding/bombs.


When 'forever war' proponents are reduced to the same one-liner tropes and hagiography about the green goblin it's…telling. Zelensky, fwiw, is down to around a 30-35 percent approval rating among Republicans, and undoubtedly lower among conservatives (excluding neocons/rino's etc), so I think I'm nowadays in the solid majority among my political peers.
ReturnOfTheAg
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AG
He wants more funding and bombs because he's defending his country and his biggest partner just pulled out the rug.

And the approval rating is low because 50+ percent of Trump's base sway with Trump's sentiment - which is pretty clearly Pro-Russia vs Ukraine.
Stat Monitor Repairman
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Zelensky delegation shows up dressed in stuff they got for cheap when Colonel Bubbie's in Galveston closed down.
J. Walter Weatherman
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nortex97 said:

CS78 said:

nortex97 said:


If anything, the strikes are intended to provoke/upset the Russians into resistance to a truce, so it reflects the Zelensky team's attitude more than anything else.
Some liberal level gymnastics.
I mean, he couldn't be much clearer if he wanted to. He wants more war and funding/bombs.


When 'forever war' proponents are reduced to the same one-liner tropes and hagiography about the green goblin it's…telling. Zelensky, fwiw, is down to around a 30-35 percent approval rating among Republicans, and undoubtedly lower among conservatives (excluding neocons/rino's etc), so I think I'm nowadays in the solid majority among my political peers.



Your own article says the opposite.

Quote:

Several hours into the talks, Yermak and his team placed a call to Zelensky and asked for instructions. He told them to agree to a ceasefire with no preconditions. In some ways, it was another massive climbdown. Zelensky has spent the entire war demanding security guarantees from the Americans and concessions from the Russians. Now nearly all of his demands had been set aside. Yermak admitted this was difficult. "But we have to be pragmatic. We have to move step by step," he told me. "This is not the moment for idealism."


Guess who turned that ceasefire proposal down.

nortex97
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AG
Quote:


Your own article says the opposite.
My article? LOL, I make no defense of the Time magazine hagiography about Zelensky. The image of a burning Kremlin, and its general sneering attitude toward Trump and JD Vance are unmistakable. As is the fact that this is the end game, despite Zelensky's wishes.
Quote:

One of the gifts fit with an emerging tradition of the Trump era, in which guests bring shiny tokens of their respect and fealty. In a recent example, Benjamin Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of Israel, gave Trump a golden pager, commemorating the explosive devices Israel used to kill or injure thousands of its enemies last year in Lebanon. Vladimir Putin went further than that, commissioning an oil painting of Trump and sending it this month to the White House. In Zelensky's case, the gift was even glitzier: the championship belt of his friend Oleksandr Usyk, who holds the world heavyweight boxing title.

As he took his seat in the Oval Office, Zelensky placed the belt on a side table near his right elbow, planning to reach over and hand it to Trump in front of the assembled journalists. Instead, as the televised briefing began, Zelensky reached for another one of his gifts. It was a folder containing a series of gruesome photographs, showing Ukrainian prisoners of war after their time in Russian captivity.
Whatever, the goblin went for gore-porn pressure and lost, badly. His team today wouldn't meet with the Russians even, and left. If he really cared about his country, he'd resign and entrust it to a more respectable leadership to negotiate the peace. Spoiler; he doesn't.
J. Walter Weatherman
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nortex97 said:

Quote:


Your own article says the opposite.
My article? LOL, I make no defense of the Time magazine hagiography about Zelensky. The image of a burning Kremlin, and its general sneering attitude toward Trump and JD Vance are unmistakable. As is the fact that this is the end game, despite Zelensky's wishes.
Quote:

One of the gifts fit with an emerging tradition of the Trump era, in which guests bring shiny tokens of their respect and fealty. In a recent example, Benjamin Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of Israel, gave Trump a golden pager, commemorating the explosive devices Israel used to kill or injure thousands of its enemies last year in Lebanon. Vladimir Putin went further than that, commissioning an oil painting of Trump and sending it this month to the White House. In Zelensky's case, the gift was even glitzier: the championship belt of his friend Oleksandr Usyk, who holds the world heavyweight boxing title.

As he took his seat in the Oval Office, Zelensky placed the belt on a side table near his right elbow, planning to reach over and hand it to Trump in front of the assembled journalists. Instead, as the televised briefing began, Zelensky reached for another one of his gifts. It was a folder containing a series of gruesome photographs, showing Ukrainian prisoners of war after their time in Russian captivity.
Whatever, the goblin went for gore-porn pressure and lost, badly. His team today wouldn't meet with the Russians even, and left. If he really cared about his country, he'd resign and entrust it to a more respectable leadership to negotiate the peace. Spoiler; he doesn't.



You did your usual schtick where you post an article with a summary that is not based on any evidence from the article, in the hopes that no one actually reads it. So I was just trying to help people out. I dont blame him for trying to remind Trump and Vance of Russia's war crimes but obviously it wasn't the right tact. Thankfully peace still seems one the table once Russia decides they are ready for it.

And no, there's still no evidence of the bolded, outside of your wildly biased opinion.
 
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