J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Woods Ag said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Reddit links? I rest my case.

Thank you for the discussion but I'm not convinced Russia was about to collapse. Its like I'm being told "Just wait two weeks" all over again.

---

I never once said collapse. Hurting to the point they are struggling to advance and or hold the line.

---

absolute lies.

Not calling you a liar, but your assertions are incorrect. Ukrainians (and Russians for that matter), normal people like you and I, are being killed because Western (US, Britain, and others) meddled in Ukrainian affairs and taunted the beast, and we have continued that killing by propping them up.

This is ****ing nonsense and should have been over years ago. We helped them get into this mess and then we've provided the means to which they can kill off generations of their people. It's disgusting.

---

They are being killed because Putin decided to invade. He holds 100% of the responsibility and can stop this today if he actually wanted peace.

---

CS78 said:

---

So those people would be better under forced Russian rule? The better option is just let Putin reestablish the Soviet union? You think he'll be satisfied if Ukraine just rolls over? Hell no! He'll set his sites on his next target and methodically continue to push and get away with whatever he's allowed to get away with. And it's not just a stronger Russia, it heavily emboldens their allies. You know, Iran, NK, China.

---

Woods Ag said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Woods Ag said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Reddit links? I rest my case.

Thank you for the discussion but I'm not convinced Russia was about to collapse. Its like I'm being told "Just wait two weeks" all over again.

---

I never once said collapse. Hurting to the point they are struggling to advance and or hold the line.

---

absolute lies.

Not calling you a liar, but your assertions are incorrect. Ukrainians (and Russians for that matter), normal people like you and I, are being killed because Western (US, Britain, and others) meddled in Ukrainian affairs and taunted the beast, and we have continued that killing by propping them up.

This is ****ing nonsense and should have been over years ago. We helped them get into this mess and then we've provided the means to which they can kill off generations of their people. It's disgusting.

---

They are being killed because Putin decided to invade. He holds 100% of the responsibility and can stop this today if he actually wanted peace.

---

He did decide to invade. 100% on him for that decision.

What led up to that decision? Hmm.. Well NATOs sole reason for being is Anti-Russia. Then our warmongering leadership sent the camel over there to give a speech and look right at Ukraine and say "You should join NATO"

She may not have known, but the people that had her say that **** did. It's been the line in the sand for ever.

I've said this many times and the "OOH Russia Russia Russa" pambies ignore it. Would the US allow Mexico/Canada to join an military alliance against the US who's publicly stated reason for being is to oppose the United States? What would happen if Mexico and Canada asked to join a military alliance with China, Iran, Russia to help arm themselves in defense against America?

I can tell you we didnt allow it with Cuba and damn near ended the world over it.

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

Woods Ag said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Woods Ag said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Reddit links? I rest my case.

Thank you for the discussion but I'm not convinced Russia was about to collapse. Its like I'm being told "Just wait two weeks" all over again.

---

I never once said collapse. Hurting to the point they are struggling to advance and or hold the line.

---

absolute lies.

Not calling you a liar, but your assertions are incorrect. Ukrainians (and Russians for that matter), normal people like you and I, are being killed because Western (US, Britain, and others) meddled in Ukrainian affairs and taunted the beast, and we have continued that killing by propping them up.

This is ****ing nonsense and should have been over years ago. We helped them get into this mess and then we've provided the means to which they can kill off generations of their people. It's disgusting.

---

They are being killed because Putin decided to invade. He holds 100% of the responsibility and can stop this today if he actually wanted peace.

---

He did decide to invade. 100% on him for that decision.

What led up to that decision? Hmm.. Well NATOs sole reason for being is Anti-Russia. Then our warmongering leadership sent the camel over there to give a speech and look right at Ukraine and say "You should join NATO"

She may not have known, but the people that had her say that **** did. It's been the line in the sand for ever.

I've said this many times and the "OOH Russia Russia Russa" pambies ignore it. Would the US allow Mexico/Canada to join an military alliance against the US who's publicly stated reason for being is to oppose the United States? What would happen if Mexico and Canada asked to join a military alliance with China, Iran, Russia to help arm themselves in defense against America?

I can tell you we didnt allow it with Cuba and damn near ended the world over it.

---

The NATO reason is propaganda. Can you call a time where NATO invaded a soviet country? Have you not listened to the very objectives spoken by putin of a return to the soviet union or how about the committed genocide of the Ukranian people. Ever heard of Holodomor or read the Gulag Archipelago?

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

How come putin doesn't have to go?
Or how come putin can't just order his orcs to back up?
Is your income at risk?

---

How would you settle this given the below while keeping Z in power?

---

Putin is a bully and you have to make it so costly for him, that he pulls his troops back somewhere between where they are now and 2014. Then he will stand up in front of the russian tvs and state the SMO is over all objectives achieved (bs).

This is done by; continuing aid to Ukraine, sanctions, promises to lift sanctions, and a dozen other measures. I have been following closely for three years. Russia was really starting to hurt especially with all the strikes on O&G, but trump threw him a wild card.

---

Woods Ag said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

Woods Ag said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Woods Ag said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Reddit links? I rest my case.

Thank you for the discussion but I'm not convinced Russia was about to collapse. Its like I'm being told "Just wait two weeks" all over again.

---

I never once said collapse. Hurting to the point they are struggling to advance and or hold the line.

---

absolute lies.

Not calling you a liar, but your assertions are incorrect. Ukrainians (and Russians for that matter), normal people like you and I, are being killed because Western (US, Britain, and others) meddled in Ukrainian affairs and taunted the beast, and we have continued that killing by propping them up.

This is ****ing nonsense and should have been over years ago. We helped them get into this mess and then we've provided the means to which they can kill off generations of their people. It's disgusting.

---

They are being killed because Putin decided to invade. He holds 100% of the responsibility and can stop this today if he actually wanted peace.

---

He did decide to invade. 100% on him for that decision.

What led up to that decision? Hmm.. Well NATOs sole reason for being is Anti-Russia. Then our warmongering leadership sent the camel over there to give a speech and look right at Ukraine and say "You should join NATO"

She may not have known, but the people that had her say that **** did. It's been the line in the sand for ever.

I've said this many times and the "OOH Russia Russia Russa" pambies ignore it. Would the US allow Mexico/Canada to join an military alliance against the US who's publicly stated reason for being is to oppose the United States? What would happen if Mexico and Canada asked to join a military alliance with China, Iran, Russia to help arm themselves in defense against America?

I can tell you we didnt allow it with Cuba and damn near ended the world over it.

---

The NATO reason is propaganda. Can you call a time where NATO invaded a soviet country? Have you not listened to the very objectives spoken by putin of a return to the soviet union or how about the committed genocide of the Ukranian people. Ever heard of Holodomor or read the Gulag Archipelago?

---

The NATO reason is propaganda?

Here's straight from ChatGPT when asked the Purpose of NATO:
The purpose of NATO (the North Atlantic Treaty Organization) is to provide collective defense and security for its member countries. It was established in 1949, primarily to counter the threat of Soviet expansion after World War II.

If we want a peaceful/friendly Russia, why did we reject them when they asked to join (multiple times)?

No one on this thread is pro-Russia, but we've had multiple opportunities to friend or at least defang Russia, but we like that evil empire to pit ourselves against. It's convenient opposition to bury loads of yours and my cash. Ukrainian people be damned. American ain't good. Russia wants to expand West? Yeah, NATO/America probably wouldn't oppose expanding east and taking some of that rich oil land.

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

I think there would be less dead Ukrainians if we listened to and negotiated with Russia sooner. I think that is self evident/inarguable.

---

Tecolote said:

---

Woods Ag said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

Woods Ag said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Woods Ag said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Reddit links? I rest my case.

Thank you for the discussion but I'm not convinced Russia was about to collapse. Its like I'm being told "Just wait two weeks" all over again.

---

I never once said collapse. Hurting to the point they are struggling to advance and or hold the line.

---

absolute lies.

Not calling you a liar, but your assertions are incorrect. Ukrainians (and Russians for that matter), normal people like you and I, are being killed because Western (US, Britain, and others) meddled in Ukrainian affairs and taunted the beast, and we have continued that killing by propping them up.

This is ****ing nonsense and should have been over years ago. We helped them get into this mess and then we've provided the means to which they can kill off generations of their people. It's disgusting.

---

They are being killed because Putin decided to invade. He holds 100% of the responsibility and can stop this today if he actually wanted peace.

---

He did decide to invade. 100% on him for that decision.

What led up to that decision? Hmm.. Well NATOs sole reason for being is Anti-Russia. Then our warmongering leadership sent the camel over there to give a speech and look right at Ukraine and say "You should join NATO"

She may not have known, but the people that had her say that **** did. It's been the line in the sand for ever.

I've said this many times and the "OOH Russia Russia Russa" pambies ignore it. Would the US allow Mexico/Canada to join an military alliance against the US who's publicly stated reason for being is to oppose the United States? What would happen if Mexico and Canada asked to join a military alliance with China, Iran, Russia to help arm themselves in defense against America?

I can tell you we didnt allow it with Cuba and damn near ended the world over it.

---

The NATO reason is propaganda. Can you call a time where NATO invaded a soviet country? Have you not listened to the very objectives spoken by putin of a return to the soviet union or how about the committed genocide of the Ukranian people. Ever heard of Holodomor or read the Gulag Archipelago?

---

The NATO reason is propaganda?

Here's straight from ChatGPT when asked the Purpose of NATO:
The purpose of NATO (the North Atlantic Treaty Organization) is to provide collective defense and security for its member countries. It was established in 1949, primarily to counter the threat of Soviet expansion after World War II.

If we want a peaceful/friendly Russia, why did we reject them when they asked to join (multiple times)?

No one on this thread is pro-Russia, but we've had multiple opportunities to friend or at least defang Russia, but we like that evil empire to pit ourselves against. It's convenient opposition to bury loads of yours and my cash. Ukrainian people be damned. American ain't good. Russia wants to expand West? Yeah, NATO/America probably wouldn't oppose expanding east and taking some of that rich oil land.

---

Ok, man, if you're going to throw out such an unbelievable comment like that you better back it up with some seriously sound references

---

• Boris Yeltsin floated the idea of Russia joining NATO several times in the early '90s.
• In a 1991 letter, Yeltsin mentioned Russia's interest in joining NATO, but later downplayed it as symbolic.
• NATO leaders didn't directly reject the idea, but they never encouraged it seriously either.
• Instead, NATO offered "partnership" programs like the Partnership for Peace and the NATO-Russia Founding Act in 1997 these were clearly a step below membership.

• In a BBC interview, Vladimir Putin said Russia might join NATO "if it was treated as an equal."
• Later, U.S. officials (including Bill Clinton) confirmed that Putin had privately raised the possibility of joining.
• Clinton reportedly told him that the U.S. would support it in principle, but that Russia would need to meet democratic and military standards like any applicant.
• Again, no formal process was initiated, and NATO did not extend an invitation or roadmap.

• While NATO never said "no" outright, many analysts argue that:
  
  • Western skepticism of Russia's democratic and military reforms made membership unlikely.
  • Russia's size and influence would have fundamentally altered NATO's power balance.
  • And NATO's expansion into former Soviet states likely made Russian membership politically impossible.

Quote:

---

NATO never officially rejected Russia's membership but it also never seriously considered it.
The offers for cooperation fell short of full integration, and trust eroded over time, especially after NATO expansion and conflicts like Kosovo, Georgia (2008), and Ukraine (2014 onward).

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

And what do the parents of kids who were conscripted and sent to the front line have to say?

---

Tecolote said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

And what do the parents of kids who were conscripted and sent to the front line have to say?

---

It's not like Ukraine conscripted them and sent them to Southeast Asia. They conscripted them to defend their country. Don't you think the US would restart the draft (you know everyone of proper age is registered) if we were defending our home soil. You all act like they are fighting a war in some far off place.

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Tecolote said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

And what do the parents of kids who were conscripted and sent to the front line have to say?

---

It's not like Ukraine conscripted them and sent them to Southeast Asia. They conscripted them to defend their country. Don't you think the US would restart the draft (you know everyone of proper age is registered) if we were defending our home soil. You all act like they are fighting a war in some far off place.

---

If they were so eager to fight in Zelenskys army, they would have been volunteers instead of conscripts. You have defeated your own argument.

---

Tecolote said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Tecolote said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

And what do the parents of kids who were conscripted and sent to the front line have to say?

---

It's not like Ukraine conscripted them and sent them to Southeast Asia. They conscripted them to defend their country. Don't you think the US would restart the draft (you know everyone of proper age is registered) if we were defending our home soil. You all act like they are fighting a war in some far off place.

---

If they were so eager to fight in Zelenskys army, they would have been volunteers instead of conscripts. You have defeated your own argument.

---

You really don't think there are lots of volunteers also?

ETA: And if the Russians were so eager to fight this war for Putin and Russia, then why are they using conscripts and then I'm sure all those North Koreans were volunteers, right - so as you say "you have defeated your own argument"

---

Woods Ag said:

---

CS78 said:

---

So those people would be better under forced Russian rule? The better option is just let Putin reestablish the Soviet union? You think he'll be satisfied if Ukraine just rolls over? Hell no! He'll set his sites on his next target and methodically continue to push and get away with whatever he's allowed to get away with. And it's not just a stronger Russia, it heavily emboldens their allies. You know, Iran, NK, China.

---

Would the leaders of Ukraine want that? No

I bet the millions of Ukrainians that are dead would have rather hthe eastern portion of Ukraine under Russian control and them be considered a Russian state than dead. Especially the many that didnt want to fight.

---

Woods Ag said:

---

I am becoming more convinced that the MIC and old Euro powers need a common enemy and that has been Russia since post WWII. the MIC needs it to line their pockets and the Euro powers need it to keep America under their thumb.

---

CS78 said:

---

Woods Ag said:

---

CS78 said:

---

So those people would be better under forced Russian rule? The better option is just let Putin reestablish the Soviet union? You think he'll be satisfied if Ukraine just rolls over? Hell no! He'll set his sites on his next target and methodically continue to push and get away with whatever he's allowed to get away with. And it's not just a stronger Russia, it heavily emboldens their allies. You know, Iran, NK, China.

---

Would the leaders of Ukraine want that? No

I bet the millions of Ukrainians that are dead would have rather hthe eastern portion of Ukraine under Russian control and them be considered a Russian state than dead. Especially the many that didnt want to fight.

---

2 Major flaws.

1. The only reason the entire country wasnt taken was because they decided to fight. A lot of people that were not in the military were willing to grab an AK and help. Theres a very good chance that if a deal is struck right now, there will be another attempt for more land within 10 years. Telling the bully that you'll give him some of your lunch money if he just goes away, doesnt work.

2. With your mindset, no war is ever worth fighting. Every war that has ever been fought has had people die that would rather just go home and not be involved. If fighting when your country is invaded isnt worth fighting for, then what is?

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

CS78 said:

---

Woods Ag said:

---

CS78 said:

---

So those people would be better under forced Russian rule? The better option is just let Putin reestablish the Soviet union? You think he'll be satisfied if Ukraine just rolls over? Hell no! He'll set his sites on his next target and methodically continue to push and get away with whatever he's allowed to get away with. And it's not just a stronger Russia, it heavily emboldens their allies. You know, Iran, NK, China.

---

Would the leaders of Ukraine want that? No

I bet the millions of Ukrainians that are dead would have rather hthe eastern portion of Ukraine under Russian control and them be considered a Russian state than dead. Especially the many that didnt want to fight.

---

2 Major flaws.

1. The only reason the entire country wasnt taken was because they decided to fight. A lot of people that were not in the military were willing to grab an AK and help. Theres a very good chance that if a deal is struck right now, there will be another attempt for more land within 10 years. Telling the bully that you'll give him some of your lunch money if he just goes away, doesnt work.

2. With your mindset, no war is ever worth fighting. Every war that has ever been fought has had people die that would rather just go home and not be involved. If fighting when your country is invaded isnt worth fighting for, then what is?

---

He might understand this concept better, if he related it to his own home being invaded by murderous criminals. A house he grew up in that his Grandfather several generations back built with his own hands.

---

Woods Ag said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

CS78 said:

---

Woods Ag said:

---

CS78 said:

---

So those people would be better under forced Russian rule? The better option is just let Putin reestablish the Soviet union? You think he'll be satisfied if Ukraine just rolls over? Hell no! He'll set his sites on his next target and methodically continue to push and get away with whatever he's allowed to get away with. And it's not just a stronger Russia, it heavily emboldens their allies. You know, Iran, NK, China.

---

Would the leaders of Ukraine want that? No

I bet the millions of Ukrainians that are dead would have rather hthe eastern portion of Ukraine under Russian control and them be considered a Russian state than dead. Especially the many that didnt want to fight.

---

2 Major flaws.

1. The only reason the entire country wasnt taken was because they decided to fight. A lot of people that were not in the military were willing to grab an AK and help. Theres a very good chance that if a deal is struck right now, there will be another attempt for more land within 10 years. Telling the bully that you'll give him some of your lunch money if he just goes away, doesnt work.

2. With your mindset, no war is ever worth fighting. Every war that has ever been fought has had people die that would rather just go home and not be involved. If fighting when your country is invaded isnt worth fighting for, then what is?

---

He might understand this concept better, if he related it to his own home being invaded by murderous criminals. A house he grew up in that his Grandfather several generations back built with his own hands.

---

lol.. like these 2 instances are anything remotely similar.


More like, the morally corrupt, grifting piece of **** 2 states over got raided by another bigger/stronger piece of **** and I'm supposed to support him.


If you both feel as strongly as you do please sign up and go fight Russia. Or send money and stop just talking about it on the internet.

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

Woods Ag said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

CS78 said:

---

Woods Ag said:

---

CS78 said:

---

So those people would be better under forced Russian rule? The better option is just let Putin reestablish the Soviet union? You think he'll be satisfied if Ukraine just rolls over? Hell no! He'll set his sites on his next target and methodically continue to push and get away with whatever he's allowed to get away with. And it's not just a stronger Russia, it heavily emboldens their allies. You know, Iran, NK, China.

---

Would the leaders of Ukraine want that? No

I bet the millions of Ukrainians that are dead would have rather hthe eastern portion of Ukraine under Russian control and them be considered a Russian state than dead. Especially the many that didnt want to fight.

---

2 Major flaws.

1. The only reason the entire country wasnt taken was because they decided to fight. A lot of people that were not in the military were willing to grab an AK and help. Theres a very good chance that if a deal is struck right now, there will be another attempt for more land within 10 years. Telling the bully that you'll give him some of your lunch money if he just goes away, doesnt work.

2. With your mindset, no war is ever worth fighting. Every war that has ever been fought has had people die that would rather just go home and not be involved. If fighting when your country is invaded isnt worth fighting for, then what is?

---

He might understand this concept better, if he related it to his own home being invaded by murderous criminals. A house he grew up in that his Grandfather several generations back built with his own hands.

---

lol.. like these 2 instances are anything remotely similar.


More like, the morally corrupt, grifting piece of **** 2 states over got raided by another bigger/stronger piece of **** and I'm supposed to support him.


If you both feel as strongly as you do please sign up and go fight Russia. Or send money and stop just talking about it on the internet.

---

If your house gets raided lets hope the first responders don't feel like you do....or you might be on your own. Good luck.

---

Quote:

---

US President Donald Trump is both contemptuous of Ukraine's Vladimir Zelensky and assured of Kiev's weakness in its conflict with Moscow, The Times' Washington reporter Hugh Tomlinson suggested in an op-ed published on Friday.
…
"Convinced of Ukraine's weakness, contemptuous of Zelensky, and enraged by the billions of dollars in aid given to Kiev by Joe Biden's administration, Trump has set out to get it all back, and more," he said.

---

Just his voice alone pisses me off.

— Seattle Extremist (@SeattleIndepen1) March 29, 2025

Quote:

---

All theories as to why Ukraine went into Kursk are now a quaint point of speculation. Whether or not they intended to hold some token slice of Russian territory as a bargaining chip is irrelevant, as the slice is gone. More importantly, the theory that Kursk could force a major redeployment of Russian forces has gone awry and now threatens to boomerang on the Ukrainians. Most of the Russian forces in Kursk were redeployed from their grouping in Belgorod, rather than the critical theater in the Donbas (as we noted earlier, while the AFU was running its "diversion" in Kursk, the Russians completely collapsed the southern Donetsk front and pushed up the Dnipro Oblast border).

What's important to note, however, is that the Kursk front is not going to be scratched off simply because the Russians have ejected Ukraine across the border. In his surprise appearance at the Kursk theater headquarters, Putin noted to need to create a "security zone" around Kursk. This is the Russian parlance for continuing the offensive across the Ukrainian border (and in fact, Russian forces have crossed into Sumy Oblast in several places) to create a buffer zone. This will have the dual purpose of both keeping the front active, preventing Ukraine from redeploying forces back to the Donbas, and preempting any attempt by the AFU to stage forces for a second crack at Kursk. Most likely the Russians will attempt to capture the heights along the border line and position themselves uphill from the Ukrainians, replicating the situation around Kharkov.

In short, having opened a new front in Kursk, the Ukrainians cannot now easily close it. For a force facing severe personnel shortages (read my previous analysis on the parlous state of Ukrainian mobilization if you'd like a refresher), Ukraine's inability to shorten their frontline creates unwelcome additional stresses. With Russian pressure continuing unabated in the Donbas, we are left wondering whether a doomed 9 month battle for Sudzha was really the best use of Ukraine's dwindling resources.

---

Quote:

---

The operating principle is that Trump is a mercurial, personal politician who places primacy on the deal. Inability to solidify the deal breeds irritation, and Zelensky's best play was to do everything possible to ensure that it was Russia that became the irritant in Trump's attempted deal making. Unfortunately for Ukraine, a valuable opportunity was wasted by Zelensky's inability to read the room. Instead, Ukraine was put in an ISR timeout and Zelensky had to come crawling back with an apology to sign the mineral deal.

This parlayed directly into tenuous diplomatic feelers, including a long phone conversation between Trump and Putin and a diplomatic roundtable in Riyadh attended by American, Russian, and Ukrainian delegations.

---

Quote:

---

The problem for Ukraine, if history is any guide, is that it is not actually very easy to surrender. In the First World War, Germany surrendered while its army was still in the field, fighting in good order far from the German heartland. This was an anticipatory surrender, born of a realistic assessment of the battlefield which indicated that German defeat was an inevitability. Berlin therefore opted to bow out prematurely, saving the lives of its young men once the struggle had become hopeless. This decision, of course, was poorly received, and was widely denounced as betrayal and cowardice. It became a politically scarring watershed moment that shaped German sensibilities and revanchist drives for decades to come.

So long as Zelensky's government continues to receive western support and the AFU remains in the field - even if it is being steadily rolled back and chewed up all along the front - it is difficult to imagine Kiev acceding to an anticipatory surrender. Ukraine must choose between doing this the easy way and the hard way, as the parlance goes, but this is not really a choice at all, particularly given the Kremlin's insistence that a change of government in Kiev is a prerequisite to peace as such. Any successful path to a negotiated piece runs through the ruins of Zelensky's government, and is therefore largely precluded at the moment.

Russian forces today stand significantly closer to victory in the Donbas than they did one year ago, and the AFU has been decisively defeated in Kursk. They are poised to make further progress towards the limits of the Donbas in 2025, with an increasingly threadbare AFU straining to stay in the field. This is what Ukraine asked for, when they willingly eschewed the opportunity to negotiate in 2022. So for all the diplomatic cinema, the brute reality of the battlefield remains the same. The battlefield is the first principle, and the ultimate repository of political power. The diplomat is a servant of the warrior, and Russia takes recourse to the fist and the boot and the bullet.

---

Quote:

---

Any successful path to a negotiated piece

---

Woods Ag said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

Woods Ag said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

CS78 said:

---

Woods Ag said:

---

CS78 said:

---

So those people would be better under forced Russian rule? The better option is just let Putin reestablish the Soviet union? You think he'll be satisfied if Ukraine just rolls over? Hell no! He'll set his sites on his next target and methodically continue to push and get away with whatever he's allowed to get away with. And it's not just a stronger Russia, it heavily emboldens their allies. You know, Iran, NK, China.

---

Would the leaders of Ukraine want that? No

I bet the millions of Ukrainians that are dead would have rather hthe eastern portion of Ukraine under Russian control and them be considered a Russian state than dead. Especially the many that didnt want to fight.

---

2 Major flaws.

1. The only reason the entire country wasnt taken was because they decided to fight. A lot of people that were not in the military were willing to grab an AK and help. Theres a very good chance that if a deal is struck right now, there will be another attempt for more land within 10 years. Telling the bully that you'll give him some of your lunch money if he just goes away, doesnt work.

2. With your mindset, no war is ever worth fighting. Every war that has ever been fought has had people die that would rather just go home and not be involved. If fighting when your country is invaded isnt worth fighting for, then what is?

---

He might understand this concept better, if he related it to his own home being invaded by murderous criminals. A house he grew up in that his Grandfather several generations back built with his own hands.

---

lol.. like these 2 instances are anything remotely similar.


More like, the morally corrupt, grifting piece of **** 2 states over got raided by another bigger/stronger piece of **** and I'm supposed to support him.


If you both feel as strongly as you do please sign up and go fight Russia. Or send money and stop just talking about it on the internet.

---

If your house gets raided lets hope the first responders don't feel like you do....or you might be on your own. Good luck.

---

Little clue. The first responders ain't making it in time.

They'll be there to pick up the bodies.

---

https://t.co/MwTurgK1DQ

BREAKING: ALERT:🚨 DID ZELENSKY ORDER A HIT ON PUTIN? 🚨

Just HOURS after Zelensky declared that “Putin will die soon” in a bombshell interview…

💥 A LIMOUSINE tied to Putin’s official fleet EXPLODES in central Moscow.

🔥 Flames, panic — and no… pic.twitter.com/hjG9h37QcQ

— Jim Ferguson (@JimFergusonUK) March 29, 2025

Woods Ag said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Woods Ag said:

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JFABNRGR said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Reddit links? I rest my case.

Thank you for the discussion but I'm not convinced Russia was about to collapse. Its like I'm being told "Just wait two weeks" all over again.

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I never once said collapse. Hurting to the point they are struggling to advance and or hold the line.

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absolute lies.

Not calling you a liar, but your assertions are incorrect. Ukrainians (and Russians for that matter), normal people like you and I, are being killed because Western (US, Britain, and others) meddled in Ukrainian affairs and taunted the beast, and we have continued that killing by propping them up.

This is ****ing nonsense and should have been over years ago. We helped them get into this mess and then we've provided the means to which they can kill off generations of their people. It's disgusting.

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They are being killed because Putin decided to invade. He holds 100% of the responsibility and can stop this today if he actually wanted peace.

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He did decide to invade. 100% on him for that decision.

What led up to that decision? Hmm.. Well NATOs sole reason for being is Anti-Russia. Then our warmongering leadership sent the camel over there to give a speech and look right at Ukraine and say "You should join NATO"

She may not have known, but the people that had her say that **** did. It's been the line in the sand for ever.

I've said this many times and the "OOH Russia Russia Russa" pambies ignore it. Would the US allow Mexico/Canada to join an military alliance against the US who's publicly stated reason for being is to oppose the United States? What would happen if Mexico and Canada asked to join a military alliance with China, Iran, Russia to help arm themselves in defense against America?

I can tell you we didnt allow it with Cuba and damn near ended the world over it.

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Zelenskyy wants to ramp it up. He wants to force us to send him money by any means necessary. He should quit ****ing around.

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Zelenskyy wants to ramp it up. He wants to force us to send him money by any means necessary. He should quit ****ing around.

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nortex97 said:

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I don't have an opinion yet, but the presidential palace in Kiev has been left alone quite deliberately.

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