flown-the-coop said:
zag213004 said:
flown-the-coop said:
Haitians. Very common in their culture to consume animals as such to take over their spirits. Vodou.
If you fell for the "it was made up" nonsense, then sorry your gal Kamala lost.
Again show me evidence that there are Haitians illegally here (or even legally here) and eating pets. You made the accusation.
Asking for this proof has nothing to do with who I didn't vote for so stop deflecting.
I usually do not oblige such lazy demands of "proof", but here you are.
You can make a donation to a charity of your choice for being wrong.
https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/haiti-voodoo-culture-eating-animals-humans-jack-brewer
https://lifesadventure.club/2024/09/14/the-role-of-animal-sacrifice-in-haitian-vodou-religion/
https://floridianpress.com/2024/09/florida-lawmaker-confirms-pet-eating-is-happening-in-u-s/
Did you actually go into the links and read them and investigate the claims within these links? Because your second link, definitely argues against the claim that Haitian immigrants are eating people's pets and local park birds
For your reading pleasure.
1.0 first linkfirst link: the text of the article recaps the assertion made by Trump during the debate of Haitian immigrants in springfield ohio eating pets. According to this Evie article, this "news was first made by an ohio resident who claimed on facebook that their neighbor's cat had been stolen by immigrants, only to be discovered hanging from a branch and being prepared for consumption."
Through my research I found an article from cincy local news station (Source 1)that determined the primary source of this claim: Erika Lee (35). Lee states in an NBC News interview (source 2) that she made the following post:
"My neighbor informed me that her daughters friend had lost her cat. She checked pages, kennels, asked around, etc. One day she came home from work, as soon as she stepped out of her car, looked towards a neighbors house, where Haitians live, & saw her cat hanging from a branch, like you'd do a deer for butchering, & they were carving it up to eat. I've been told they are doing this to dogs, they have been doing it at snyder park with the ducks & geese, as I was told that last bit by Rangers & police. Please keep a close eye on these animals"
Her Neighbor, Newton, in an interview with newsguard, stated that Lee's facebook post mistated her (Newton). According to Newton, the owner of the missing cat was "an acquaintance of a friend"
So to summarize this part, this initial claim from Lee was a fourth-hand account based on a rumor. (Lee>Newton>Friend>Acquaintance of a friend). Nothing has been shown to substantiate this 4th-hand account rumor and Lee regret's posting it.
On another story,
(Source 3) There is a separate police report filed by a different springfield resident, Anna Kilgore (Trump Supporter), who believed her Haitian neighbors were responsible for her cat, Miss Sassy, going missing. The wallstreet Journal visited Kilgore who had filed the police report. According to Kilgore (via the WSJ), Miss Sassy "actually returned a few days later - found safe in her own basement". Kilgore apologised to her Haitian neighbors via translation app.
To summarize this story, Cat owner filed report accusing Haitian neighbors of taking her cat. Cat was found in owners basement unharmed a couple of days later.
1.1 First X post imbeddedWithin the evie link there is an imbedded X post from riverrat328 stating: "Actual resident of Springfield, Ohio is afraid for her life and her pets post and police report to follow". and within this post includes 3 attachments:
1. the first attachment is a video of a person crying saying that it is not a joke, she doesn't feel safe and to imagine being homeless for a year for no F'in reason. She makes claims that "they" are out there decapitating animals and follows up with telling the audience to imagine walking outside and seeing you dog's head decapitated on the ground. She doesnt feel safe, everything is scary, everybody is homeless and there is hate everywhere.
Her testimony alone of "them" decapitating animals is hearsay and her credibility is called into question when within the same speech she claims that everybody is homeless in her town. We know this is not true. The amount of homeless make up .69% of the springfield ohio population (source 4). I found it odd in her testimony that she was able to zoom in and zoom out on words of emphasis during her speech while this is an artistic choice I don't understand why this was needed. If she's homeless, maybe she can showcase her video editing skills in a job application and hopefully get out of the homeless situation that she is in.
2. a facebook post from Annie Schlicher makes a 3rd-hand anecdote that her partner at work's, brother in-law saw "this haitian man run up to these geese and cut its head of to take it home" and that the man "did it in front of a bunch of kids" (age not known). Annie Schlicher then calls out a mayor Anthony Harris.
First of all The only mayor I have found within the united states named Anthony Harris is in Frost, Texas. there is no mayor by the name of Anthony Harris in Springfield, Ohio. The current mayor of Springfield Ohio is Rob Rue. secondly the mayor Police Department and the Ohio Department of natural resources have found zero evidence to support the claims of geese being taken and/or decapitated.
regarding the name, Anthony Harris, this name belongs to a resident of Ohio which claimed at a Springfield city commission meeting that the migrants were eating ducks in the park. The video of the claim from Harris can be found at 1:10:09 of source 5. Harris is a self described social media influencer on tiktok and youtube. He claims that Haitians are in the parks and grabbing ducks by their neck and cutting their head off and walking off with them and eating them.
In a later video (source 6) Anthony Harris recounts his day he went to the city council meeting. in his recounting he states that someone tagged him in a facebook status saying "Anthony, me and my kid were just in the park and then they just went up and grabbed a goose and cut his head off and then ran off and was eating it". Harris admits he never saw this happen at the 2 minute mark. it is safe to assume he is referencing the post by Schlicher which tagged Harris as the Mayor. The story matches exactly but at this point Harris is making a 4th-hand account of an event that has zero evidence to back up the claim.
3. The 3rd attachment shows a grainy transcript of a legitimate call detail report from the clark county communications center in Springfield, Ohio. the report documents a non-emergency call received August 26, 2024 at 10:36 AM where the caller, Toby, Claimed to have seen four individuals, two male two female and believed them to be of Haitian descent based on the language spoken, carrying a goose near the intersection of Walter Street and Water Street. The caller provided a partial license plate for a gray Toyota Tacoma. Officer.Perlman arrived on the scene at 11 AM and completed the call at 11:11 AM with no further action noted. at the time there was no evidence to verify the callers claims.. further investigations by local and state authorities such as the Department of natural resources found no supporting evidence, dead geese, or violations had been committed. (see source 7). Although there have been posts of other police reports, the original complaint made by Toby is the only one of record for springfield. (Source 8)
1.2 second X postMan from Wall street apes post says he is not haitian but he is from carribean and he says that Haitian immigrants are indeed eating animals. He claims they are harvesting cats for food and for voodoo purposes. he says haitians eat the animals and use the blood and bones for voodoo purposes for good luck or "good juju" as he puts it. In voodoo practices it is only typical for sacrifices of edible animals such as chickens and goats. Cats are not one of the animals that are sacrificed. such instances are extremely rare (source 9). He says it is their culture to do this. however his claims are secondhand accounts of practices within Haiti. he personally has not been to Haiti and witnessed this nor does that mean these practices are happening in the united states. Eating dog meat in Korea is not illegal but I dont see widespread evidence of dog meat being consumed by korean immigrants. is it possible there may be an instance or two maybe but it's not a widespread issue. My point is just because something in a country occurs at regularity does not mean that it transfers to a different country due to rules and regulations immigrants for the most part follow. this person's claim is speculation and so far the evidence to support such practices of animal, slaughter in parks, and the kidnapping of pets by Haitian immigrants are unfounded.
the evie article continues saying that there are not any specific police reports about cats or dogs being taken. The article then references the already unfounded claim of geese being stolen at parks, and of course, the reasons behind such an action.
1.3 3rd X postthis post features a interview with a former NFL player who has been in Haiti for humanitarian work. Brewer makes reference to the voodoo culture within Haiti of animal sacrifice and the desperate situation many Haitians face within their country. He also makes the claim that the Haitians as a culture practice cannibalism. according to the US state department, there is no evidence that supports the practice of cannibalism within Haiti (Source 10). If Jack Brewer has the videos that he claims to have of people eating people, they should be turned over to the state department as evidence because this would change the state departments relations with the country of Haiti for sure. there is also no evidence that Haitians coming over to the United States are cannibals either. again, this is speculation based off of unfounded claims about people residing in a country over 1000 miles away from the mainland.
continuing on with the EVIE article, the article references a video uploaded by at highway_30 showing a man in a Third World country drinking a cat's blood while it's still alive. The user cannot confirm the validity and context of the footage (like what country it is coming from). The video has been removed from X so there is no way to further investigate this claim.
2.0 lifesadventure club linkthis link begins with discussions on Haitian voodoo practices. The initial claims about the animals that are typically sacrificed such as chickens goats are true within the country.
The article then goes into the misconceptions and disinformation some of the bullet points include:
- cats and dogs are not typically used for sacrifice
- expert state that Afro Caribbean religions like Haitian voodoo only sacrifice animals considered edible claims of Haitians,
- eating cats and dogs, as part of voodoo to rituals are considered false by scholars
- there has been a long history of stigmatization and misinformation about voodoo practices.
The article then goes into the context of the recent claims. The site states that recent disinformation campaigns have made unsubstantiated claims about Haitian immigrants and animal sacrifice. The article then goes onto list The unsubstantiated claims that have been made about immigrants in Springfield, Ohio, and that they have been debunked by local authorities and fact checkers.
So this article contradicts your claim of Haitians in the United States taking and eating pets. So thank you for supporting my stance with this article.
3.0 floridian pressThe title of this article is Florida law maker confirms pet eating is happening in US. Florida Rep Mario Diaz-Balart recounts hearing people eating animals like cats, horses, ducks, and iguanas in South Florida, and that "it does happen". Miami news site an instance where three horses were stolen from southwest Miami Dade farm and slaughtered for their meat. The article does not provide claims as to who the perpetrators were. there was another instance of a cuban-american man in Miami arrested for illegally selling 40 pounds of slaughtered horse meat: Alain Arencibia Diaz.
The article goes on to talk about invasive iguanas being eaten for dinner in South Florida. I don't see why this is relevant to Haitians in usa supposedly stealing and eating peoples pets. it is legal in USA to eat iguanas, snakes, frogs, alligators. it is illegal to eat cats, dogs and horses in USA.
Continuing the article begins talking about sacrifices being protected by the us constitution in a 9-0 decision in 1993 which overturned local ordinances banning the practices of the Santeria religion. The ruling held that the restrictions were targetting a specific religion and were not religiously neutral. Again, this does not provide evidence of Haitian immigrants practicing sacrifices on cats and dogs, legally or illegally obtained. The article then references the Jack Brewer comments about dogs, cats, and humans being sacrificed and eaten in Haiti, to which I already pointed out. No evidence supports this as per the state department.
The article then finally concludes with the question "are immigrants eating domestic pets?" They answer "maybe". only because a law was passed in 2018 outlawing the slaughter of dogs and cats for human consumption and their logic is why would they make this law if it wasn't happening .
The basis of this law goes back to 2017 as an effort to encourage the end of dog and cat meat trade within countries such as China, South Korea, Vietnam, and India. Prior to this law, the only states where it was illegal to consume, cat and dog meat was California, Hawaii, Georgia, Michigan, New Jersey, and New york. That means blood-red states like Mississippi, Alabama, Texas, Louisiana, and even Florida allowed the consumption of cat and dog meat. Does that mean people in Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana? We're all taking each other's cats and dogs and eating them. No, it doesn't. There have still been animal cruelty laws put in place at these states, including Ohio, where the supposed pet cat animal sacrificing was taking place.
To summarize the links that you sent me: the first link references, rumors that have been disproven or are from 3rd to 4th hand accounts with unsubstantiated claims. The second link actually contradicts your argument and the first link arguments. The third and final link basically rehashes the same unsubstantiated claims made from the first link and does not add any evidence to support your assertion that Haitian immigrants are taking pet cats and dogs (as well as local park birds) and consuming them.
Source 1:
https://www.wlwt.com/article/post-at-origin-of-lie-about-haitian-migrants-eating-pets/62201811#:~:text=SPRINGFIELD%2C%20Ohio%20%E2%80%94,kennels%2C%20asked%20around%2C%20etc.Source 2:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/-just-exploded-springfield-woman-says-never-meant-spark-rumors-haitian-rcna171099Source 3 (the primary source is paywalled):
https://gizmodo.com/cat-stolen-by-haitian-migrants-in-ohio-was-actually-just-in-cat-owners-basement-2000500328#:~:text=The%20Wall%20Street%20Journal%20earnestly,kicked%20it%20into%20high%20gear.source 4:
https://dam.assets.ohio.gov/image/upload/epa.ohio.gov/Portals/35/cso/Springfield-Integrated_LTCP_Update.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.comSource 5:
https://www.youtube.com/live/VL4JXoFcJQI?si=2qApdingdoNUztxLsource 6:
https://www.youtube.com/live/WiBB_XAKDec?si=5mtx_PDFrQ_XYiE_source 7:
https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/county-no-evidence-of-august-claim-that-haitians-took-geese-at-springfield-park/NFRGJNURHREGHB32HBC6UKZJWQ/source 8:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/police-audio-haitian-geese/source 9:
https://www.themonastery.org/blog/is-voodoo-coming-to-a-town-near-you#:~:text=%22Afro-Caribbean%20religions%2C%20including%20Haitian%20Vodou%2C%20only%20involve%20the%20sacrifice%20of%20animals%20considered%20edible%2C%20such%20as%20chickens%20and%20goats.%20Cats%20and%20dogs%20are%20not%20part%20of%20these%20practices%2C%22%20Kummels%20explained.%20Such%20sacrifices%20are%20also%20rare.source 10:
https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2024/03/20/politifact-cannibalism-in-haiti-fact-checking-the-unfounded-claims/73028427007/
