*** SPIDER-MAN: NO WAY HOME *** (SPOILER THREAD)
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Saw it at noon today. Really enjoyed it. The appearance that got the biggest reaction in my theater was Matt Murdock, followed by Willem Dafoe's Osborn. I loved the smaller moments of banter between the major set pieces. Ned asking Tobey if he had a best friend, Andrew and Tom reacting to Tobey's organic web slinging, Tom and Tobey telling Andrew he's amazing (this especially made me chuckle since his movies are titled the "Amazing Spider-Man.") They did a really impressive job balancing such a diverse cast and the duration flew by.
Thanks and gig'em
Loved it. Easily top 5 for me and already want to go see it again.
My only wish coming out of it was if Vulture showed up to make it a full sinister six. All the other parts about it being good are just echo chamber points for what's already been said.
My only wish coming out of it was if Vulture showed up to make it a full sinister six. All the other parts about it being good are just echo chamber points for what's already been said.
Dr. Strange tells you what the movie is about - you can't live two lives. And Aunt May doubles down on it with the "great power/great responsibility" line.NewOldAg said:What would you say the point of the movie was? I would say it was something like "a love letter to the history of the character, in all its forms". And I feel that was a poor choice, I would have much preferred to see an original story that continued character arcs setup by the first 2 movies. Sure Ned and MJ are in this plenty, but there was no need to have their story end with this movie when they were just getting warmed up.TCTTS said:
This is… maybe the worst take I've ever read. I'm not saying you *have* to like it, but you really did miss the point on so many fronts.
Now look, you may say I should've known that this is where it was going from watching the trailers. Yes, I thought this is where this was headed, but I still had what I would call "naive hope" that it wouldn't be a soft reboot.
Again, I thought they executed well in referencing all the tropes, inside jokes, previous films, etc. I'm just burned out on the nostalgia, recycling, and call backs we are getting in movies right now.
Peter Parker has become Spider-man. In the first two movies he continues trying to play at being Peter Parker - going to Homecoming, being on the academic decathlon team, going to Europe, dating MJ - you can't do that if you are Spider-man because it distracts you from being Spider-man. That has to come first. Maybe Tobey's version made it work eventually, but not when he's a teenager. Only when Tom Holland's version realizes that he has to do what's right for everyone else is he able to ascend to truly being Spider-man.
NewOldAg said:What would you say the point of the movie was? I would say it was something like "a love letter to the history of the character, in all its forms". And I feel that was a poor choice, I would have much preferred to see an original story that continued character arcs setup by the first 2 movies. Sure Ned and MJ are in this plenty, but there was no need to have their story end with this movie when they were just getting warmed up.TCTTS said:
This is… maybe the worst take I've ever read. I'm not saying you *have* to like it, but you really did miss the point on so many fronts.
Now look, you may say I should've known that this is where it was going from watching the trailers. Yes, I thought this is where this was headed, but I still had what I would call "naive hope" that it wouldn't be a soft reboot.
Again, I thought they executed well in referencing all the tropes, inside jokes, previous films, etc. I'm just burned out on the nostalgia, recycling, and call backs we are getting in movies right now.
Spider-Man's whole thing is about responsibility. It's his responsibility to be a hero, but he also feels responsible for risking his friends' and family's safety. That's his struggle in like every movie. That's what this whole movie was about.
tomtomdrumdrum said:NewOldAg said:What would you say the point of the movie was? I would say it was something like "a love letter to the history of the character, in all its forms". And I feel that was a poor choice, I would have much preferred to see an original story that continued character arcs setup by the first 2 movies. Sure Ned and MJ are in this plenty, but there was no need to have their story end with this movie when they were just getting warmed up.TCTTS said:
This is… maybe the worst take I've ever read. I'm not saying you *have* to like it, but you really did miss the point on so many fronts.
Now look, you may say I should've known that this is where it was going from watching the trailers. Yes, I thought this is where this was headed, but I still had what I would call "naive hope" that it wouldn't be a soft reboot.
Again, I thought they executed well in referencing all the tropes, inside jokes, previous films, etc. I'm just burned out on the nostalgia, recycling, and call backs we are getting in movies right now.
Spider-Man's whole thing is about responsibility. It's his responsibility to be a hero, but he also feels responsible for risking his friends' and family's safety. That's his struggle in like every movie. That's what this whole movie was about.
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NewOldAg said:What would you say the point of the movie was? I would say it was something like "a love letter to the history of the character, in all its forms". And I feel that was a poor choice, I would have much preferred to see an original story that continued character arcs setup by the first 2 movies. Sure Ned and MJ are in this plenty, but there was no need to have their story end with this movie when they were just getting warmed up.TCTTS said:
This is… maybe the worst take I've ever read. I'm not saying you *have* to like it, but you really did miss the point on so many fronts.
Now look, you may say I should've known that this is where it was going from watching the trailers. Yes, I thought this is where this was headed, but I still had what I would call "naive hope" that it wouldn't be a soft reboot.
Again, I thought they executed well in referencing all the tropes, inside jokes, previous films, etc. I'm just burned out on the nostalgia, recycling, and call backs we are getting in movies right now.
HOMECOMING
- Beginning of movie = Peter Parker wants to be an Avenger, thinks high school isn't important.
- End of movie = Peter Parker decides not to become an Avenger, finally realizes that high school/his friends are important.
It's a movie about acceptance of one's place.
FAR FROM HOME
- Beginning of movie = Peter Parker wants to just live his life/be a hero when it suits him (i.e. he's over-correcting for the lesson he learned in Homecoming).
- End of movie = Peter Parker finally realizes that he can't have a normal life. His is a greater calling.
It's a movie about acceptance of one's calling.
NO WAY HOME
- Beginning of movie = Peter Parker doesn't want to accept the consequences of his calling (i.e. he's accepted his calling, but not the responsibility associated with it).
- End of movie = Peter Parker finally realizes that - in a brilliant twist, through Aunt May - With great power comes great responsibility; that doing the right thing comes with a painful cost.
It's a movie about acceptance of all that comes with one's powers.
In other words, the first two movies are a lead-up to, culminating in No Way Home being the delivery of, THE theme most-associated with Spider-Man.
Further, across three movies, the evolution of Peter's character goes from having a great support system - Stark technology, a loving/protective aunt, and loyal friends - to complete and utter self-reliance, in the best and most heart-breaking ways imaginable. No Way Home is the perfect culmination of the thematic journey Peter has been on since Homecoming. And the brilliance of NWH is that Maguire and Garfield are the literal, physical embodiment of "self." They're "Peter Parker" supporting Peter Parker, helping usher him into a greater sense of self-reliance, finally giving him the confidence he needs to do so. He now knows he's not alone in the utter loneliness that can come with being a superhero.
Someone apparently touched a nerve here.
Two additional things
1) The apartment he moves into at the end is basically a carbon copy of Tobey's from the original movies.
2) I think my wife set the record for biggest gap between seeing Marvel movies in the theater as she adds No Way Home to her collection. Last one she saw with me was Iron Man 2 in 2010.
1) The apartment he moves into at the end is basically a carbon copy of Tobey's from the original movies.
2) I think my wife set the record for biggest gap between seeing Marvel movies in the theater as she adds No Way Home to her collection. Last one she saw with me was Iron Man 2 in 2010.
helloimustbegoing said:
Two additional things
1) The apartment he moves into at the end is basically a carbon copy of Tobey's from the original movies.
2) I think my wife set the record for biggest gap between seeing Marvel movies in the theater as she adds No Way Home to her collection. Last one she saw with me was Iron Man 2 in 2010.
I only wish the old landlord and daughter could have made a quick appearance somehow. I realize after the spell everyone is in their own respective universes so it would not have worked. Some kind of callback would have been awesome though.
I definitely am more bummed out by the ending than anything, but the movie itself is great and like others of said it's a top 5 comic book movie easily.
I think I just feel bad of Parker. I don't think any other superhero loses or sacrifice as much as he does in terms of regular life. The dude seems to constantly have to lose loved ones, struggles with the double life, is constantly broke etc.
I'm not holding my breath, but I really hope we get a 4th film with him having really taken on the mantles and God willing the little Venom symbiote comes into play. Then you can have the MJ and Ned relationship rebuild as well. She's still wearing the necklace from FFH at the end as well. After all, MJ said she'd figure out his identity again.
I think I just feel bad of Parker. I don't think any other superhero loses or sacrifice as much as he does in terms of regular life. The dude seems to constantly have to lose loved ones, struggles with the double life, is constantly broke etc.
I'm not holding my breath, but I really hope we get a 4th film with him having really taken on the mantles and God willing the little Venom symbiote comes into play. Then you can have the MJ and Ned relationship rebuild as well. She's still wearing the necklace from FFH at the end as well. After all, MJ said she'd figure out his identity again.
I'm personally hoping for a new brand of MCU team-ups during his college/adult years. Here's hoping for a freshmen year rivalry with Iceman or the Human Torch.
helloimustbegoing said:Dr. Strange tells you what the movie is about - you can't live two lives. And Aunt May doubles down on it with the "great power/great responsibility" line.NewOldAg said:What would you say the point of the movie was? I would say it was something like "a love letter to the history of the character, in all its forms". And I feel that was a poor choice, I would have much preferred to see an original story that continued character arcs setup by the first 2 movies. Sure Ned and MJ are in this plenty, but there was no need to have their story end with this movie when they were just getting warmed up.TCTTS said:
This is… maybe the worst take I've ever read. I'm not saying you *have* to like it, but you really did miss the point on so many fronts.
Now look, you may say I should've known that this is where it was going from watching the trailers. Yes, I thought this is where this was headed, but I still had what I would call "naive hope" that it wouldn't be a soft reboot.
Again, I thought they executed well in referencing all the tropes, inside jokes, previous films, etc. I'm just burned out on the nostalgia, recycling, and call backs we are getting in movies right now.
Peter Parker has become Spider-man. In the first two movies he continues trying to play at being Peter Parker - going to Homecoming, being on the academic decathlon team, going to Europe, dating MJ - you can't do that if you are Spider-man because it distracts you from being Spider-man. That has to come first. Maybe Tobey's version made it work eventually, but not when he's a teenager. Only when Tom Holland's version realizes that he has to do what's right for everyone else is he able to ascend to truly being Spider-man.
Well said, more succinctly than I could.
wangus12 said:
I definitely am more bummed out by the ending than anything, but the movie itself is great and like others of said it's a top 5 comic book movie easily.
I think I just feel bad of Parker. I don't think any other superhero loses or sacrifice as much as he does in terms of regular life. The dude seems to constantly have to lose loved ones, struggles with the double life, is constantly broke etc.
I'm not holding my breath, but I really hope we get a 4th film with him having really taken on the mantles and God willing the little Venom symbiote comes into play. Then you can have the MJ and Ned relationship rebuild as well. She's still wearing the necklace from FFH at the end as well. After all, MJ said she'd figure out his identity again.
What's so brilliant about these three movies is that they were basically a back door way of getting us to the "default" Peter Parker/Spider-Man we love, but also feel so bad for. I remember people b*tching about the idea of Stark giving Peter all that tech/support in Civil War/Homecoming. Which was certainly fun, but the argument was that it didn't feel quite right that this Peter wasn't "struggling" as much as we knew Peter could/should. In a way, Stark felt like a cheat code. When, in reality, it was all set-up to get us to the "default" version of Peter/Spider-Man we finally see in the last few minutes of NWH. And it's almost MORE poignant this way, because we've now seen how much he's lost, just to essentially get to the version we had in Tobey at the end of act one of the first movie. Which, yeah, I think looked/felt the same by design, in terms of his apartment, shinier suit, etc.
Loved the movie. Though it's a bummer Spider-man always ends up on the short end in the end.
Saw it Friday with my 12 year old daughters and had a great time. "Made" them watch the old series of movies so they wouldn't be confused and loved watching their eyes light up when Garfield made his appearance.
One thing I hadn't seen mentioned is how they retrofitted the goblins costume to more fit the traditional look and feel from the comics, in a way that worked in the story line and didn't feel forced. Well done all around.
One thing I hadn't seen mentioned is how they retrofitted the goblins costume to more fit the traditional look and feel from the comics, in a way that worked in the story line and didn't feel forced. Well done all around.
If you really think about it, this movie was (and this whole trilogy) was a prologue to Spiderman as he is in the comics. At the very end he has no Stark tech, no one knows who he is, he is poor, he is living in a ****ty apartment. he can truly focus on being the friendly neighborhood spidermanAliasMan02 said:
So, something that bugged me a little that I just put my finger on. I heard people talk about how they felt like this was Holland's last hurrah, but honestly, this wasn't even his movie. This movie was all:
1. A farewell tour for the other Spider-Man properties
2. An into to the multiverse
Holland was great in it but he didn't even face one of his rogue's gallery.
Yes, yes. He's even back to sewing his costumes by hand at the end. His poor spider fingers.
Agreed. And while Peter does have terrible luck, it's not necessarily so terrible that 4 of the first 5 movies needed to end with a cemetery scene. Now you can make that 5 of 8. I'll always appreciate Homecoming and FFH for not having finales where Peter or a preacher is speaking beside a grave or casket!
Side note... I hated that Venom post-credits, until he got sent back to his own universe. The theater was dead silent throughout. If that's the kind of comedy in Venom 2 then I want to see it even less than I already did. That whole take on the character just does not work for me on any level.
Scattershooting on villains real quick:
- It's pretty remarkable that Sony didn't bring back Vulture or Mysterio just to make this a Sinister Six movie. They've wanted that since ASM2 with that basement of origins.
- It's a good thing Spider-Man has Marvel's best rogues gallery. I think we can safely assume we won't see an MCU take on Ock, Osborn, Electro, Sandman or Lizard. It'd be a retread of a retread at this point, and Osborn apparently couldn't find Oscorp in this universe.
- No Osborn is a shame because he's interesting beyond the Green Goblin persona, but the MCU can still do Dark Reign / Dark Avengers in some capacity without him. Maybe that's what Val is building up to.
- I'm sure Sony would want to use Venom, Morbius or Kraven (who is getting a solo movie for some reason) in the MCU's next Spider-Man film, but I have to assume Disney isn't as keen. Maybe Holland can hop over there somehow for their sequels, I don't know.
So who does that leave us with for the all-but-confirmed sequel trilogy? Or who is left that Sony doesn't already have ridiculous solo movie plans for? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony%27s_Spider-Man_Universe)
Outside of the Sony properties, I think the list looks like... Chameleon (kind of spare), Rhino (got a **** version in ASM2), Scorpion (set up but then forgotten in Homecoming), Punisher, Jackal, Hobgoblin (kinda samey), organized crime like Kingpin/Hammerhead /Tombstone, Prowler, Mister Negative, Beetle, Boomerang...?
Edit: Spidey + Daredevil vs. Kingpin? Aww yeah
Side note... I hated that Venom post-credits, until he got sent back to his own universe. The theater was dead silent throughout. If that's the kind of comedy in Venom 2 then I want to see it even less than I already did. That whole take on the character just does not work for me on any level.
Scattershooting on villains real quick:
- It's pretty remarkable that Sony didn't bring back Vulture or Mysterio just to make this a Sinister Six movie. They've wanted that since ASM2 with that basement of origins.
- It's a good thing Spider-Man has Marvel's best rogues gallery. I think we can safely assume we won't see an MCU take on Ock, Osborn, Electro, Sandman or Lizard. It'd be a retread of a retread at this point, and Osborn apparently couldn't find Oscorp in this universe.
- No Osborn is a shame because he's interesting beyond the Green Goblin persona, but the MCU can still do Dark Reign / Dark Avengers in some capacity without him. Maybe that's what Val is building up to.
- I'm sure Sony would want to use Venom, Morbius or Kraven (who is getting a solo movie for some reason) in the MCU's next Spider-Man film, but I have to assume Disney isn't as keen. Maybe Holland can hop over there somehow for their sequels, I don't know.
So who does that leave us with for the all-but-confirmed sequel trilogy? Or who is left that Sony doesn't already have ridiculous solo movie plans for? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony%27s_Spider-Man_Universe)
Outside of the Sony properties, I think the list looks like... Chameleon (kind of spare), Rhino (got a **** version in ASM2), Scorpion (set up but then forgotten in Homecoming), Punisher, Jackal, Hobgoblin (kinda samey), organized crime like Kingpin/Hammerhead /Tombstone, Prowler, Mister Negative, Beetle, Boomerang...?
Edit: Spidey + Daredevil vs. Kingpin? Aww yeah
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I can see them doing a different take on Osborne in the MCU. Maybe the fact that Peter knows he has the potential to go mad causes him to do things that actually put that in motion? I'm not saying they should retread the story, but they don't have to throw it out completely. It can be mined for different thematic things.
Maybe they introduce Harry Osborne as more of a venture capitalist/scientist that has jumpstarted a new oscorp.
Or Norman or Harry buy out Hammer Industries (OR Stark given their legal issues) and rename it into Oscorp
Or Norman or Harry buy out Hammer Industries (OR Stark given their legal issues) and rename it into Oscorp
The only thing that bummed me out was no Tobey/J Jonah Jameson exchange.
Biggest roar on Saturday night came when all three are sprinting across the scaffolding after the teamwork discussion.
Biggest roar on Saturday night came when all three are sprinting across the scaffolding after the teamwork discussion.
Green Goblin said there was no Oscorp in this universe, but he didn't say there was no Osborn. I can see a future movie where this universe's Harry Osborn emerges to launch Oscorp and we learn Willem Defoe visited him and gave him a push forward down the villainy path during his time offscreen in No Way Home.
Thanks and gig'em
Does anyone else wonder if Ned's comment of "I'll never become a villain and try to kill you", or whenever he said along those lines, was foreshadowing to him becoming hobgoblin
Spider-Man: No Way Home almost featured Kraven the Hunter. https://t.co/KdFtAmzNnl pic.twitter.com/J2CAiF9Ppj
— IGN (@IGN) December 9, 2021
This movie was so great that it's got me wondering: Creatively, how much credit does Sony get vs Marvel (Disney). I assume Sony still has the rights to the majority of the characters, but I just can't see them making something this good without a huge assist/influence from Marvel Studios.
helloimustbegoing said:
Two additional things
1) The apartment he moves into at the end is basically a carbon copy of Tobey's from the original movies.
2) I think my wife set the record for biggest gap between seeing Marvel movies in the theater as she adds No Way Home to her collection. Last one she saw with me was Iron Man 2 in 2010.
On #1 -- first thing you hear is the landlord saying when the rent is due. Great easter egg.
I don't understand why the studio was predicting $150M on Thursday. That seemed crazy low to me, especially with all the ticket sites crashing.
$253M opening weekend, which is the third highest OW in history behind Endgame and Infinity War. (Beat out The Force Awakens by $5M, and in the pandemic era!)
It's pretty insane considering the pandemic hasn't ended, and with omicron in full swing now.
Can only imagine what it would've done in normal times. Crazy to think this could've possibly challenged Endgame for its throne, a record which seemed untouchable just 2 years ago.
$253M opening weekend, which is the third highest OW in history behind Endgame and Infinity War. (Beat out The Force Awakens by $5M, and in the pandemic era!)
It's pretty insane considering the pandemic hasn't ended, and with omicron in full swing now.
Can only imagine what it would've done in normal times. Crazy to think this could've possibly challenged Endgame for its throne, a record which seemed untouchable just 2 years ago.
The studios likes to lowball so when the numbers come out significantly higher than their projection, they can go "oh wow it DOUBLED our projections".Brian Earl Spilner said:
I don't understand why the studio was predicting $150M on Thursday. That seemed crazy low to me, especially with all the ticket sites crashing.
$253M opening weekend, which is the third highest OW in history behind Endgame and Infinity War. (Beat out The Force Awakens by $5M, and in the pandemic era!)
It's pretty insane considering the pandemic hasn't ended, and with omicron in full swing now.
Can only imagine what it would've done in normal times. Crazy to think this could've possibly challenged Endgame for its throne, a record which seemed untouchable just 2 years ago.
Most of the box office trackers were predicting $200M OW just from the pre-sales but hitting $250M is just nuts.
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This may be explained in MoM, but do you guys think the multiverses only exist because of the events of Loki? Or are they separate unrelated incidents? (Loki and Strange's spell.)
Right now my head canon is that the events of this movie are only possible because of what happens in Loki.
Right now my head canon is that the events of this movie are only possible because of what happens in Loki.
Didn't Strange say that people crossing from other multiverses to his shouldn't be possible? Maybe that indicates this took place after Loki. (Though how something can place "after" events at the end of all time is still a bit hand wavy.)
Thanks and gig'em
Yeah, true. All we know is the series starts in 2012.
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