Trump-Vance-Zelenskyy

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ReturnOfTheAg
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In reply to FIDO_Ags • 1:04p, 3/10/25
AG
FIDO_Ags said:
Quote:
Well, that's what you do when you're getting your ass whipped.


Uhh, that's not what is happening in Ukraine. Far from it. Ukraine was whipping Russia before foreign started pouring in. The aid only arrived only after the world figured out that the Ukrainians could hold their own against Russia. Now Russia is doing what it has always done, throw bodies at a problem until it's solved. And Russia does have enough bodies to solve it that way, but this war is years from that.


You're not wrong

But to be fully transparent, I believe Western Nations armed and trained the Ukrainians in the years prior to the invasion.

But you're exactly right, once they demonstrated their capability on the battlefield, the real supplies started pouring in
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FIDO_Ags
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In reply to ReturnOfTheAg • 1:38p, 3/10/25
ROTA, you are correct that Ukrainian leaders were trained by NATO following the Crimean invasion and learned their lessons well. This was demonstrated by their asymmetric strategy to counter the initial Russian invasion. Unfortunately it also played into the Russians strength of mass using brute strength which is why Russia will eventually prevail unless political will in Russia changes. And the political winds can shift in Russia as happened to them with their Afghan war.

This war is interesting. Despite all the new tech being introduced to this war, it still turned into a WW 1 style trench war with neither side able to dislodge each other from their defenses. That being said, the Russians appear willing to sacrifice bodies for inches and feet per day and numbers favor that in this war.
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nomadic_ag
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4:29p, 3/10/25
AG
I don't care what happens in Ukraine, I just wish Trump and Vance wouldn't have gotten so emotional in a televised meeting. Like I was watching WWE or something. JD afterward said he felt "attacked" by Zelensky. How has he made it this far in life with such thin skin?
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Burdizzo
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In reply to nomadic_ag • 4:45p, 3/10/25
AG
nomadic_ag said:
I don't care what happens in Ukraine, I just wish Trump and Vance wouldn't have gotten so emotional in a televised meeting. Like I was watching WWE or something. JD afterward said he felt "attacked" by Zelensky. How has he made it this far in life with such thin skin?


He is Ukrainian drama queen
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nomadic_ag
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4:47p, 3/10/25
AG
Vance?
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nortex97
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5:52p, 3/10/25
AG
Zelensky sent an official apology?
Quote:
Unfortunately, due to the ongoing alleged cyberattacks against X, I can't post the video, as embeds are not working. But here's what Witkoff was quoted as saying on Fox News' "America's Newsroom."
Quote:
"Zelensky sent a letter to the president. He apologized for that whole incident that happened in the Oval Office," Witkoff told Fox News on Monday.
"I think that it was an important step, and there's been a lot of discussion between our teams and the Ukrainians and the Europeans who are relevant to this discussion as well."
It wasn't immediately clear if this was the same letter that President Donald Trump mentioned during his recent congressional address or something different. During that speech, Trump did not mention an apology at the time nor was there any reporting to that effect so this appears to be a separate letter representing another olive branch from Zelensky.

If you missed all the prior drama, it started on Friday, February 28th, when Zelensky appeared in the Oval Office with Trump, Vice President JD Vance, and other administration officials. The purpose of the presser was to shake hands, smile for the cameras, and promote the signing of a mineral rights deal that would open the door for continued aid to Ukraine.

This after word got out (via NBC, so maybe not) that Trump wants Zelensky to resign before moving forward, and Sudzha might fall tonight/tomorrow as the Kursk pocket has collapsed.

Will see how this plays out.
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JFABNRGR
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6:53p, 3/10/25
AG
Originating from the OCCUPIED Ukraine area.....probably Donetsk.
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nortex97
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4:51a, 3/11/25
AG
Ahead of peace talks today Zelensky/Nato launch massive drone strike at…Moscow. CTH:
Quote:
At first review it seems like the terrain mapping component of the targeting system was not accurate or in place. Hence, unless NATO was intentionally targeting residential buildings, just like the attacks in Kazan
some of the drones hit civilian high-rise buildings on the way to Moscow airport.

However, don't get lost in the weeds on this. 60+ drones launched against Russia's largest city is intended to draw a major retaliation from Russian President Vladimir Putin, that is what the UK/EU and NATO apparatus want. The Zelenskyy people want Russia to attack Kiev so they can enlarge the scale and scope of U.S. involvement.

I sincerely hope President Trump is on the phone with President Putin, and I hope Trump's instructions to Rubio, Waltz and Witkoff are to put fierce pressure on Ukraine at the meeting in Saudi Arabia.

Only through strong, extreme and even perhaps vicious diplomacy, is Ukraine going to be brought to heel. The EU and NATO must also suffer strong geopolitical consequences for their efforts to disrupt any effort at peace.

The pretending must stop. Each time the UK/EU/NATO team use Ukraine to escalate the fight, the EU and NATO must pay a price. The American people need to understand what the dynamic really is here, even if it eventually means President Trump calling it out directly.
Pulling out of Nato and cutting off 5 eyes is sounding more and more appealing.
Quote:
"Russia says the United Kingdom is the "main instigator" of the conflict in Ukraine."
And Putin would be correct. They stop peace at every turn.
Dictator Communist Starmer and his band of death cult moonbats must be cut down to size. Before they get us all killed!
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Ellis Wyatt
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7:05a, 3/11/25
Bet they'd be shocked if we initiated regime change in London. **** the communists.
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flown-the-coop
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7:23a, 3/11/25
AG
Appears more and more like the Churchill of Ukraine is focused on his legacy as a cult hero David trying to slay the Giant Bear.

Unfortunately, Z's story is not one of bravery but one of intense foolishness sacrificing his own people and country to enjoy his moment - all paid for with foreign money.

I remain confident Trump will deliver peace here but Ukraine backers need to accept they are not going to like the terms of the deal.

And Zelensky will be exiled as part of the deal, which likely suits him just fine.
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Science Denier
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In reply to flown-the-coop • 7:25a, 3/11/25
AG
flown-the-coop said:
Appears more and more like the Churchill of Ukraine is focused on his legacy as a cult hero David trying to slay the Giant Bear.

Unfortunately, Z's story is not one of bravery but one of intense foolishness sacrificing his own people and country to enjoy his moment - all paid for with foreign USAID money.

I remain confident Trump will deliver peace here but Ukraine backers need to accept they are not going to like the terms of the deal.

And Zelensky will be exiled as part of the deal, which likely suits him just fine.
FIFY
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nortex97
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In reply to flown-the-coop • 7:31a, 3/11/25
AG
It's him, and the brits flipping the bird at Trump forcing the negotiations today.

As the Kursk pocket collapses in a bloody mess. (Maps are all over X showing this).

Caution, below has NSFW language.
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ReturnOfTheAg
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In reply to nortex97 • 7:37a, 3/11/25
AG
nortex97 said:
Ahead of peace talks today Zelensky/Nato launch massive drone strike at…Moscow. CTH:
Quote:
At first review it seems like the terrain mapping component of the targeting system was not accurate or in place. Hence, unless NATO was intentionally targeting residential buildings, just like the attacks in Kazan
some of the drones hit civilian high-rise buildings on the way to Moscow airport.

However, don't get lost in the weeds on this. 60+ drones launched against Russia's largest city is intended to draw a major retaliation from Russian President Vladimir Putin, that is what the UK/EU and NATO apparatus want. The Zelenskyy people want Russia to attack Kiev so they can enlarge the scale and scope of U.S. involvement.

I sincerely hope President Trump is on the phone with President Putin, and I hope Trump's instructions to Rubio, Waltz and Witkoff are to put fierce pressure on Ukraine at the meeting in Saudi Arabia.

Only through strong, extreme and even perhaps vicious diplomacy, is Ukraine going to be brought to heel. The EU and NATO must also suffer strong geopolitical consequences for their efforts to disrupt any effort at peace.

The pretending must stop. Each time the UK/EU/NATO team use Ukraine to escalate the fight, the EU and NATO must pay a price. The American people need to understand what the dynamic really is here, even if it eventually means President Trump calling it out directly.
Pulling out of Nato and cutting off 5 eyes is sounding more and more appealing.
Quote:
"Russia says the United Kingdom is the "main instigator" of the conflict in Ukraine."
And Putin would be correct. They stop peace at every turn.
Dictator Communist Starmer and his band of death cult moonbats must be cut down to size. Before they get us all killed!


Tit for Tat
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flown-the-coop
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In reply to nortex97 • 7:40a, 3/11/25
AG
Whilst we are looking at withdrawing from NATO, we should withdraw from the UN as well and tell them to get the hell out of America.

Turn their international pleasure palace in NYC into a Trump Hotel.

Putting America first means not being taken advantage of by our "friends" around the world.
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nortex97
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In reply to flown-the-coop • 5:47a, 3/17/25
AG
Speaking of which, an eloquent defense of withdrawal from Nato: Time to turn out the lights.
Quote:
As President Trump and President Putin negotiate a lasting peace between Russia and Ukraine in the weeks ahead, the outcome now is indisputable. We, the U.S. and NATO, lost our proxy war in Ukraine, a war that will go down in history as one of our worst foreign policy disasters, even worse than our ignominious withdrawal from our 20-year war in Afghanistan.

Hundreds of thousands of Russian and Ukrainian soldiers and civilians are dead, and even more are wounded and maimed. We fought to the last Ukrainian soldier, with no skin in the game. Sorrow blankets the land. Ukraine's infrastructure has been decimated. Russia is substantially stronger economically and militarily, with stronger ties to Iran, North Korea, and China. Sanctions had little if any effect. The economies of Western Europe lie stagnant or contracting, the paucity of their military forces, capabilities, and industries starkly exposed. Political upheaval is in the air across Europe. $183 billion of our U.S. taxpayer money proved a foolish investment, enriching the corrupt Zelensky regime and the U.S. defense industry, and served no purpose other than protracting the war.
Meanwhile, more demands from team Zelensky (planning a trip to Brussels to collect more cash) as Trump hopes to announce something in his meeting with Putin tomorrow.

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Z Team
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6:24a, 3/17/25
AG
Suggestion. Make posts by liberal loons on this thread invisible on the entire site to everyone but other liberal loons.
It will make it much easier to ignore them.
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CS78
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6:52a, 3/17/25
So Putin has made it clear that he has no desire to end things any time soon. What now?
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Ellis Wyatt
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In reply to CS78 • 7:16a, 3/17/25
CS78 said:
So Putin has made it clear that he has no desire to end things any time soon. What now?
Ask Zelenskyy. He ****ed everything up. Except getting rich.
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nortex97
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In reply to CS78 • 7:25a, 3/17/25
AG
It's pretty obvious they didn't set up the call tomorrow just for Putin to say he wants the war to continue.

Putin even offered the encircled Ukrainians to surrender in Kursk, but Kiev turned it down of course.

Tulsi reports solid progress as well:
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FobTies
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7:28a, 3/17/25
The harder Trump tries to stop the killing and destruction, the harder white liberals will praise Zelensky and stoke WW3. It's the only thing we know for certain.

Drawing the US into war with Russia/Iran/China on Trump's watch would be devastating for the country. But if it obstructed Trump, that would all be worthwhile to the left.
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FobTies
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7:43a, 3/17/25
I think the war ends this year, maybe not in 1st round of negotiation, but relatively quickly (as far as wars go).

Putin doesn't really want western Ukraine or to invade Poland etc. He wants Russian speaking eastern Ukraine, no NATO presence, to recoup some war costs (energy assets etc.), and save face. That can happen more efficiently at the negotiation table than with more war.

The ONLY thing in the way of peace is TDS. It's so strong it has caused the anti-war party to become cheerleaders for the military industrial complex. They would rather label peace as "surrender" and push the US into more conflict.
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bobbranco
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In reply to nortex97 • 7:46a, 3/17/25
AG
nortex97 said:

Putin even offered the encircled Ukrainians to surrender in Kursk, but Kiev turned it down of course.

Russian territory occupied by Ukraine should be Ukraine's. If Putin was such a badass the loss of Kursk would never have happened. It's a total CF of a war.
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nortex97
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In reply to bobbranco • 7:51a, 3/17/25
AG
bobbranco said:
nortex97 said:

Putin even offered the encircled Ukrainians to surrender in Kursk, but Kiev turned it down of course.

Russian territory occupied by Ukraine should be Ukraine's. If Putin was such a badass the loss of Kursk would never have happened. It's a total CF of a war.
I'm not sure they even occupy it any longer, not that I particularly give a crap where a final line is drawn + or - a few km's in either direction there...

But yes, to your last point.
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nortex97
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6:26a, 3/18/25
AG
Call this am around 8 CST.

WH put out that they are '10 yards from achieving peace, never been so close' but we will see. This seems like good speculation but then he put one of those stupid cartoons at the end;

I predict much outrage/keyboard smashing at the peace terms on X, but don't have a clue what they will really be.
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Gigem314
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In reply to nortex97 • 7:27a, 3/18/25
AG
"It was a perfect phone call"
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flown-the-coop
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In reply to nortex97 • 8:58a, 3/18/25
AG
Point 3 in the 2nd tweet is an interesting one I heard discussed this morning.

Putin seems to be jockeying for control of the northern Black Sea ports including Odessa in what I would assume is posturing against Turkey's growing influence.

Key question is how does Team Trump view this. First reaction will be for folks to say that Putin cutting off Ukraine from the Black Sea is a non-starter and Z will never go for it. But from a geopolitical perspective, leaving Turkey to grow their influence without a check, even if its Russia, is not ideal.

Europe and in particular Eastern Europe continues to devolve into a Middle East-esque mess, driven by Obama then Biden abdicating any roll in keeping the thumb on bad actors in both areas.

The biggest guaranty from today will be that all sides are likely to be unhappy, which I have read from the top negotiators on f16 is that means a good compromise was reached.
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nortex97
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In reply to flown-the-coop • 9:14a, 3/18/25
AG
Turkey will still control the entry/exit (Bosporus) to the Black Sea. Managing Turkey (and before that Austro-Hungaria, and way before that the Eastern Roman Empire) vs. Russia to keep these two from having 'too much' influence and power has been a thing for millennia.

Ultimately, it is the remnant of Zelensky's Kiev-Ukraine empire that will get a bunch of cash from the EU and will be economically sustainable as such for the time being. Opening trade (in oil and energy/electricity) is a boon for all parties involved (and Erdogan desperately wants inflation in Turkey to go down). I'm skeptical the Russians will 'get' Odessa in any proposed 'deal' however.

We will probably 'know' more about how the call went by around noon central. I'm going to give up speculating further as it won't matter, shortly.
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aggiehawg
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10:21a, 3/18/25
AG


Quote:
BREAKING: In an exclusive interview with me, former Ukrainian President Poroshenko launches a scathing attack on Zelenskyy, defends Trump, and calls for a major shift in Ukraine's military strategy.
Accuses Zelenskyy's team of "moving the country to a dictatorship", while the rule of law "is brutally violated."
Calls Trump "the only person who can stop the war",adding: "I can absolutely guarantee that he is not pro-Russian."
Urges Ukraine to halt all offensive operations against Russian forces and shift to defense: "We should forget the words 'offensive operation.' Stop doing that. Stop killing people."
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Rossticus
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In reply to aggiehawg • 11:46a, 3/18/25
Not surprising. Poroshenko has had an axe to grind with Z since he lost the election. That said, he's always been hardcore Ukrainian nationalist, pro-NATO, and (at least outwardly) anti-Russian. Given his stances up through last year, this strikes me as a bit opportunistic. He likely feels he's the odds on choice to succeed Z post-war.

For anyone unfamiliar, read the presidency and post-presidency sections to get a feel for who he is.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petro_Poroshenko
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nortex97
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In reply to Rossticus • 1:11p, 3/18/25
AG
I agree. Poroshenko is something of a 'king maker' perhaps if Ukraine holds elections in the future, but not a real candidate himself. The vitriol/hatred between him and Zelensky is quite real.

Some early indications;

Seems to imply (via this MI5 source) that the expectation is this will be coldly rejected by the Kiev regime. If so, the next play will be more interesting than this one.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Rossticus • 2:22p, 3/18/25
AG
Rossticus said:
Not surprising. Poroshenko has had an axe to grind with Z since he lost the election. That said, he's always been hardcore Ukrainian nationalist, pro-NATO, and (at least outwardly) anti-Russian. Given his stances up through last year, this strikes me as a bit opportunistic. He likely feels he's the odds on choice to succeed Z post-war.

For anyone unfamiliar, read the presidency and post-presidency sections to get a feel for who he is.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petro_Poroshenko
Very familiar with who Poroshenko is. He was hand picked by Nuland and the Obama administration to replace the deposed Yanukovych. And he was the one Biden essentially blackmailed/bribed to fire Shokin and off of the Burisma investigation when Hunter was on the board.
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nortex97
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5:22a, 3/19/25
AG
Ceasefire: Energy and Infrastructure for 30 days announced.
Quote:
The partial ceasefire agreement will be in effect for 30 days. Talks for a permanent peace will 'begin immediately' in the Middle East.
'The leaders agreed that the movement to peace will begin with an energy and infrastructure ceasefire, as well as technical negotiations on implementation of a maritime ceasefire in the Black Sea, full ceasefire and permanent peace. These negotiations will begin immediately in the Middle East,' the White House said in its readout of the call.
The White House statement also contained a key detail hinting at a realignment of the Middle East: a statement of support for Israel over Iran.
'The two leaders shared the view that Iran should never be in a position to destroy Israel,' the readout said.
But I was told Putin wanted total control of all of Ukraine and had no interest in peace? Russian media seems to endorse the truce/progress/2.5 hour call.

Will the green goblin go along with it? Well…


Not another dime/round of ammo. March 23rd in Jeddah next.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to nortex97 • 8:25a, 3/19/25
Russia also apparently droned a hospital a few hours after the "ceasefire" that they wouldn't fully commit to.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna197017

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nortex97
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 8:44a, 3/19/25
AG
That report really depends on the word/truthfulness of Zelensky. People can choose who to believe, of course, and it's not really a dichotomy. On their side, the Russians claimed to have shot down their own drones on getting the energy ceasefire;
Quote:
Quote:
It should be especially noted that at the time of receiving the order from the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation to temporarily cease attacks on the energy infrastructure of Ukraine, there were seven Russian attack drones in the air, targeting Ukrainian energy infrastructure facilities related to the military-industrial complex, located in the Nikolaev region .

The Russian Air Defense Forces were ordered to neutralize the unmanned aerial vehicles , six of which were shot down by the Pantsir air defense missile and gun system, one by the Russian Aerospace Forces' duty fighter.
The usual social media "experts" have already accused Russia of breaking the "deal" pretty much immediately after details of the call were released. So quickly, as to almost be intentionally preemptive.
There was a Russian drone strike underway that night, as per the quote above, a regular working day by now of Russian military pummeling 404 (don't let rk notice that part). But, as usual, no evidence was provided to show any 404 plant, grid or gas storage actually being hit. On the other hand, the AFU launch on a Russian oil facility is confirmed.
Meh, whatever is my perspective…let's just see the Jeddah talks this week.
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CS78
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9:15a, 3/19/25
The more Ukraine shows they can hit oil refineries deep inside Russia, with homegrown missiles, the more it seems they actually do have the cards. Russia can't stop them and it's why Putin asked for a halt to infrastructure and not civilian areas. That wasn't an equal offer for each side. If the US totally walks, no doubt Ukraine losses will increase. But, I think they can still fight without us for the next decade, if that's the path they choose.
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