Prosperdick said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Another great episode. Baelor was too good to be true. The fact that Baelor's head was caved in AFTER Aerion had yielded makes his death all the more tragic. Daeron's dream about a giant dragon collapsing dead on Dunk came true.

Things I don't understand:

• How is Dunk physically alive? He took like 4 legit stab wounds/impalements?
• Why TF was dunk not wearing plate armor? Who jousts in nothing but chainmail?!
• Did Dunk actually lose his eye? or was it just like swollen shut?

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I think Dunk got lucky on the placement of the stab wounds because by all accounts he should be dead.

As to plate armor I think he simply didn't have enough funds to purchase it, he had to sell one horse just to be wearing what he wore (he couldn't use any of Ser Arlen's as they were way too small).

I think his eye is just VERY badly swollen and should be OK. I have no idea as I haven't read any of the novella's but I would think they would prefer not having him wear a patch for the remainder of the series.

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Idc if every stab missed a vital organ, he should have bled out within minutes lol.

Steely Pate sold him his shield for a copper. We're supposed to believe he wouldn't give him the MOST IMPORTANT piece of armor! for a joust? lol

LB12Diamond said:

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Why would they protect Aerion. They know he's a bad seed and the reason this is all going down?

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Yeah, my take on the whole thing is that nobody on his side actually gave a **** about him living except his father.

M.C. Swag said:

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Prosperdick said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Another great episode. Baelor was too good to be true. The fact that Baelor's head was caved in AFTER Aerion had yielded makes his death all the more tragic. Daeron's dream about a giant dragon collapsing dead on Dunk came true.

Things I don't understand:

• How is Dunk physically alive? He took like 4 legit stab wounds/impalements?
• Why TF was dunk not wearing plate armor? Who jousts in nothing but chainmail?!
• Did Dunk actually lose his eye? or was it just like swollen shut?

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I think Dunk got lucky on the placement of the stab wounds because by all accounts he should be dead.

As to plate armor I think he simply didn't have enough funds to purchase it, he had to sell one horse just to be wearing what he wore (he couldn't use any of Ser Arlen's as they were way too small).

I think his eye is just VERY badly swollen and should be OK. I have no idea as I haven't read any of the novella's but I would think they would prefer not having him wear a patch for the remainder of the series.

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Idc if every stab missed a vital organ, he should have bled out within minutes lol.

Steely Pate sold him his shield for a copper. We're supposed to believe he wouldn't give him the MOST IMPORTANT piece of armor! for a joust? lol

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Steely Pate is a capitalist. If you're good at something, never do it for free.

lol do it for another cooper then!

M.C. Swag said:

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Prosperdick said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Another great episode. Baelor was too good to be true. The fact that Baelor's head was caved in AFTER Aerion had yielded makes his death all the more tragic. Daeron's dream about a giant dragon collapsing dead on Dunk came true.

Things I don't understand:

• How is Dunk physically alive? He took like 4 legit stab wounds/impalements?
• Why TF was dunk not wearing plate armor? Who jousts in nothing but chainmail?!
• Did Dunk actually lose his eye? or was it just like swollen shut?

---

I think Dunk got lucky on the placement of the stab wounds because by all accounts he should be dead.

As to plate armor I think he simply didn't have enough funds to purchase it, he had to sell one horse just to be wearing what he wore (he couldn't use any of Ser Arlen's as they were way too small).

I think his eye is just VERY badly swollen and should be OK. I have no idea as I haven't read any of the novella's but I would think they would prefer not having him wear a patch for the remainder of the series.

---

Idc if every stab missed a vital organ, he should have bled out within minutes lol.

Steely Pate sold him his shield for a copper. We're supposed to believe he wouldn't give him the MOST IMPORTANT piece of armor! for a joust? lol

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Steely Pate giving him the shield for a copper was nice, but he's not going to give him a full made to spec set of plate armor in under a day that would definitely be exponentially more expensive without any way of guaranteeing he'd get paid back

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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LB12Diamond said:

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Why would they protect Aerion. They know he's a bad seed and the reason this is all going down?

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Yeah, my take on the whole thing is that nobody on his side actually gave a **** about him living except his father.

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I suppose GRRM is using a modified "divine right of kings" doctrine where the monarchs have authority given to them by the gods. Thusly, Aerion (and all Targaryens) are beyond reproach and the judgement of man.

Thunder18 said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Prosperdick said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Another great episode. Baelor was too good to be true. The fact that Baelor's head was caved in AFTER Aerion had yielded makes his death all the more tragic. Daeron's dream about a giant dragon collapsing dead on Dunk came true.

Things I don't understand:

• How is Dunk physically alive? He took like 4 legit stab wounds/impalements?
• Why TF was dunk not wearing plate armor? Who jousts in nothing but chainmail?!
• Did Dunk actually lose his eye? or was it just like swollen shut?

---

I think Dunk got lucky on the placement of the stab wounds because by all accounts he should be dead.

As to plate armor I think he simply didn't have enough funds to purchase it, he had to sell one horse just to be wearing what he wore (he couldn't use any of Ser Arlen's as they were way too small).

I think his eye is just VERY badly swollen and should be OK. I have no idea as I haven't read any of the novella's but I would think they would prefer not having him wear a patch for the remainder of the series.

---

Idc if every stab missed a vital organ, he should have bled out within minutes lol.

Steely Pate sold him his shield for a copper. We're supposed to believe he wouldn't give him the MOST IMPORTANT piece of armor! for a joust? lol

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Steely Pate giving him the shield for a copper was nice, but he's not going to give him a full made to spec set of plate armor in under a day that would definitely be exponentially more expensive without any way of guaranteeing he'd get paid back

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Exactly and the odds were that he either wouldn't be able to recruit enough knights so he loses his hand and foot (good luck Pate trying to get your money back from a crippled knight) or he does recruit enough knights but the odds are heavily against them that he likely gets killed (zero chance of recouping the armor cost) or he again loses his hand and foot (oh yeah, and teeth).

It would be a awful business decision by Pate. Now you could argue Dunk should have sold his other horse to pay for a full suit of armor but not sure on the turnaround time for that plus Dunk needs that second horse for his squire to ride assuming he continues his journey of going to other tournaments.

Prosperdick said:

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Thunder18 said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Prosperdick said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Another great episode. Baelor was too good to be true. The fact that Baelor's head was caved in AFTER Aerion had yielded makes his death all the more tragic. Daeron's dream about a giant dragon collapsing dead on Dunk came true.

Things I don't understand:

• How is Dunk physically alive? He took like 4 legit stab wounds/impalements?
• Why TF was dunk not wearing plate armor? Who jousts in nothing but chainmail?!
• Did Dunk actually lose his eye? or was it just like swollen shut?

---

I think Dunk got lucky on the placement of the stab wounds because by all accounts he should be dead.

As to plate armor I think he simply didn't have enough funds to purchase it, he had to sell one horse just to be wearing what he wore (he couldn't use any of Ser Arlen's as they were way too small).

I think his eye is just VERY badly swollen and should be OK. I have no idea as I haven't read any of the novella's but I would think they would prefer not having him wear a patch for the remainder of the series.

---

Idc if every stab missed a vital organ, he should have bled out within minutes lol.

Steely Pate sold him his shield for a copper. We're supposed to believe he wouldn't give him the MOST IMPORTANT piece of armor! for a joust? lol

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Steely Pate giving him the shield for a copper was nice, but he's not going to give him a full made to spec set of plate armor in under a day that would definitely be exponentially more expensive without any way of guaranteeing he'd get paid back

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Exactly and the odds were that he either wouldn't be able to recruit enough knights so he loses his hand and foot (good luck Pate trying to get your money back from a crippled knight) or he does recruit enough knights but the odds are heavily against them that he likely gets killed (zero chance of recouping the armor cost) or he again loses his hand and foot (oh yeah, and teeth).

It would be a awful business decision by Pate. Now you could argue Dunk should have sold his other horse to pay for a full suit of armor but not sure on the turnaround time for that plus Dunk needs that second horse for his squire to ride assuming he continues his journey of going to other tournaments.

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lol im not trying to impugn the morals of a fictional character. I'm moreso just incredulous that Dunk riding into a joust without plate armor went completely unremarked by literally every character. Like, almost any strike via lance could have skewered him and ending the fight before it even began. Just an odd omission of concern.

M.C. Swag said:

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Prosperdick said:

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Thunder18 said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Prosperdick said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Another great episode. Baelor was too good to be true. The fact that Baelor's head was caved in AFTER Aerion had yielded makes his death all the more tragic. Daeron's dream about a giant dragon collapsing dead on Dunk came true.

Things I don't understand:

• How is Dunk physically alive? He took like 4 legit stab wounds/impalements?
• Why TF was dunk not wearing plate armor? Who jousts in nothing but chainmail?!
• Did Dunk actually lose his eye? or was it just like swollen shut?

---

I think Dunk got lucky on the placement of the stab wounds because by all accounts he should be dead.

As to plate armor I think he simply didn't have enough funds to purchase it, he had to sell one horse just to be wearing what he wore (he couldn't use any of Ser Arlen's as they were way too small).

I think his eye is just VERY badly swollen and should be OK. I have no idea as I haven't read any of the novella's but I would think they would prefer not having him wear a patch for the remainder of the series.

---

Idc if every stab missed a vital organ, he should have bled out within minutes lol.

Steely Pate sold him his shield for a copper. We're supposed to believe he wouldn't give him the MOST IMPORTANT piece of armor! for a joust? lol

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Steely Pate giving him the shield for a copper was nice, but he's not going to give him a full made to spec set of plate armor in under a day that would definitely be exponentially more expensive without any way of guaranteeing he'd get paid back

---

Exactly and the odds were that he either wouldn't be able to recruit enough knights so he loses his hand and foot (good luck Pate trying to get your money back from a crippled knight) or he does recruit enough knights but the odds are heavily against them that he likely gets killed (zero chance of recouping the armor cost) or he again loses his hand and foot (oh yeah, and teeth).

It would be a awful business decision by Pate. Now you could argue Dunk should have sold his other horse to pay for a full suit of armor but not sure on the turnaround time for that plus Dunk needs that second horse for his squire to ride assuming he continues his journey of going to other tournaments.

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lol im not trying to impugn the morals of a fictional character. I'm moreso just incredulous that Dunk riding into a joust without plate armor went completely unremarked by literally every character. Like, almost any strike via lance could have skewered him and ending the fight before it even began. Just an odd omission of concern.

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Yeah it should have raised some eyebrows but maybe they figured his overall size could mitigate that disadvantage...obviously it didn't.

500,000ags said:

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I mean no one has ever even seen the guy fight before, most don't even know him, and they were all asked in the last 18 hours. They each had their own reasons to fight that had nothing to do with Dunk so it's not surprising they don't care about his armor all that much.

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...they obviously cared enough to risk their lives to fight against the son and grandson of the King. If Dunk dies, they lose the trial and by their own faith are labeled as defending the 'guilty'. All of them had a self interest in Dunk not only surviving the fight, but WINNING.

Hard to discuss all of them, but LB for example, he probably is the most fond of Dunk and yet he joins after talking with Egg, never even chatting with Dunk. Clearly there is an ulterior motive IMO, and it's to join any fight against and support anyone willing to stand up to the Targaryens.

I think a point that might be getting lost here is that the Targaryens, as a house, are in the middle of a steep decline. The last dragon died ~50 years before, but even before that, the dragons were getting smaller and sicklier and less formidable over time. Like the dragons that they used to conquer Westeros, House Targaryen was also becoming less and less formidable and less scary as time passed. The Blackfyre Rebellion had already happened and they were to the point where traveling puppeteers were openly defying them and even squires (Raymun Fossaway) were openly speaking out against them to folks they just met (Dunk). Then comes along Dunk, who may or may not even actually be a knight, and +/- six other knights signed up to fight with him against the Targaryens just because they were itching for a reason to fight them. So the question is, where does power come from? What makes a knight a knight? What does it mean to be a knight? A Lord? Who is deserving?

redline248 said:

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Cibalo said:

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Did i hear right in the flashback that Fleabottom would get worse now that Daemon's rebellion was over. Is this from HotD or something else? I thought HotD was hundreds of years in the past.

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The thing about Targaryens is they recycle names ever 50 years or so

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Not only that, they have similar names with just a letter or two difference.

500,000ags said:

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Hard to discuss all of them, but LB for example, he probably is the most fond of Dunk and yet he joins after talking with Egg, never even chatting with Dunk. Clearly there is an ulterior motive IMO, and it's to join any fight against and support anyone willing to stand up to the Targaryens.

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lol because he didn't know there even was a trial of seven. Dunk had a single night to gather his fellow knights and was duped into believing Steffon Fossoway would be recruiting on his behalf. Either way, LB didn't enlist to fight under pretenses of LOSING. He had his own motivations for sure, but Dunk being killed in the first charge was not an outcome he (or any of them) would shrug off as an acceptable outcome.

G Martin 87 said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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lol do it for another cooper then!

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Not sure why you find this so hard to believe.

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I said it already...because if Dunk dies, they all lose. He's the 'King' of this chessboard. Protecting him is the only way to ensure they all can still win.

G Martin 87 said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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G Martin 87 said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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lol do it for another cooper then!

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Not sure why you find this so hard to believe.

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I said it already...because if Dunk dies, they all lose. He's the 'King' of this chessboard. Protecting him is the only way to ensure they all can still win.

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This is not true. The Trial by Seven is over as soon as any of these three requirements are met:

(1) Dunk is killed - the Gods have judged him guilty
(2) Aerion is killed or withdraws the accusation - the Gods have judged him a liar
(3) All 7 of one side die or yield - the Gods have judged the side's champion, either Dunk or Aerion, accordingly

If Dunk dies, the other six don't "lose". It just means Dunk is guilty. Did you think that the other six, including Baelor, were going to be executed too?

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....What? no, I was saying that the fight is over the second Dunk dies (point 1 abvoe). Dunk going into a full on joust with nothing but chainmail is something that should concern EVERYONE interested in winning the fight. Idk what is so complicated about this lol. I'll stop because this has gone on far longer than I meant it to. I was simply wondering why literally NO ONE mentioned the absurdity of Dunk not having plate armor in this specific fight (regardless if they actually tried to give him some or not). None of these guys were going to be executed, but they certainly weren't risking their lives to lose this fight within 10 seconds of it starting because the King's piece showed up without proper protection.

Right. Whatever their motives were, their motives are not served if Duncan dies within 10 seconds. And even if they'd re not executed, there could still be backlash for them picking the wrong side. So they should at least care that Duncan is not immediately killed because he didn't have the proper armor.

If Dunk had never worn plate armor and fought using it I'm not sure that was the time to learn. He never had armor of his own so would have no experience with it Fighting in plate armor decreases your mobility and he would probably find it difficult just to get off the muddy ground after being unhorsed while wearing full plate armor.

bonfarr said:

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If Dunk had never worn plate armor and fought using it I'm not sure that was the time to learn. He never had armor of his own so would have no experience with it Fighting in plate armor decreases your mobility and he would probably find it difficult just to get off the muddy ground after being unhorsed while wearing full plate armor.

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All of that is moot if that lance goes through his chest on the opening charge lol. It doesn't matter if he's unaccustomed to fighting in armor if he doesn't survive being unhorsed to begin with.

Yeah, I'm not seeing the absolute shame that comes from being on Dunk's side in a lose. The only real shame would come from yielding before your man was killed or yielded.

How can that be if Baelor even took Dunk's side? He had the most to lose out of anyone and he thought the shame of not defending Dunk was worse than being on the losing side.

If you fight against the people in charge and lose, you don't see how they could have negative repurcussions down the road? I'm not talking about shame. I'm talkin about the crazy people in charge (or their family) making life hell for you.

But that's the damn point of bringing up the animosity towards the Targaryens. At this stage they likely do want to test the waters.

I guess I'm confused what we are talking about. The people on Dunc's side had a reason that they wanted to fight against the other side. Whatever those motives were, Dunc dying within 10 seconds would not be good for them because their motives would not be met/served if that happened. And on top of that, it's at least possible that their life would be rough going forward.

If those people said I'm here to fight for what's right. They care about his plate armor. If those people said I'm here to fight for you. They care about his plate armor. Literally, no one is there for that except Raymund and he had his on mini series going on. If anything, armoring Dunk and fighting with him says something else about the actions of Lords and makes their actions worse and less defensible to the crown. Same goes for Pate if he did a noticeable favor to Dunk by armoring him IMO.

They want to fight the crown but can't do that I'd Duncan dies right away. The fight would be over.

Wow, I guess it was just good planning on their part to have him impaled in precisely the place that wouldn't insta kill him then!