whatthehey78 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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whatthehey78 said:

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Texmid said:

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Didn't Oswald have a handler? Is it possible that his handler instructed him to take his rifle to the depository that day and leave it on the sixth floor for someone else to use? It would certainly explain him sitting in the break room drinking a coke while the assassination took place. It would also explain why he claimed he was a patsy. Once he realized what was happening he flees the depository because he knows he is being framed.

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All are plausible IMHO. No one witnessed him or anyone, actually pulling the trigger.

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Multiple people in the follow cars and on Houston St described someone that matches his description there on the 6th floor, though.

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And we all know how RELIABLE eye witnesses are...especially 6 stories + ? distance to said moving car. I'll give that evidence (?) a 62+ year "wait and see". Only witness on Houston St. I am aware of is one teenager, whose motive for his commentary is well...suspect at best.

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Also, seems unlikely a person inside a 6th floor room would be able to be described from street level, unless he was hanging out the window.

Is this person Mark Wahlberg from the movie Shooter?

Burdizzo said:

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I don't research this stuff like some of you, but this is the first claim I have heard about him being on break during the procession.

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These accounts were recorded contemporaneously but these three women were never called to testify (no were they even interviewed by) before the Warren Commission. Not unlike this thread, their story did not fit the "official narrative", and thus, was ignored.

BoerneGator said:

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Burdizzo said:

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I don't research this stuff like some of you, but this is the first claim I have heard about him being on break during the procession.

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These accounts were recorded contemporaneously but these three women were never called to testify (no were they even interviewed by) before the Warren Commission. Not unlike this thread, their story did not fit the "official narrative", and thus, was ignored.

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The Warren Commission called lots of people who had testimony that did not align with the final conclusions.

It is an unjustifiable position to say the Warren Commission did not call people that had testimony that conflicted with the ultimate conclusions. There are conflicting witness statements throughout. To say otherwise is undeniably false.


Dr. A.H. Giesecke was a treating doctor in Parkland and he testified that JFK's LEFT side of his head was blown off. Not the rear. Not the right. The left side behind his ear.

Railroad worker S.M. Holland watched the events unfold from the triple overpass. He testified to the Warren Commission that he definitely heard four shots and saw a puff of smoke from the trees in the grassy knoll. He said the third and fourth shots were very close together.

Just two examples. There are many more.

The human brain is a poorly understood, imperfect, fabulous, mystery. People's ability to remember things varies wildly. I am not saying to indict anyone It is just that if you ask ten different people to recall the same event, you will likely get ten very different stories and each one of them will swear on a Bible they are correct. In fact, I had a former co-worker who was a retired FBI Special Agent, and he flat out told me that humans make for horrible witnesses because memories are so inconsistent and impressionable. I asked him if that was the reason that on the TV show COPS why, when the police chased down a perp, they would stand in a circle afterward and retell the story to each other so that everyone was consistent. He refused to answer that question,

Burdizzo said:

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The human brain is a poorly understood, imperfect, fabulous, mystery. People's ability to remember things varies wildly. I am not saying to indict anyone It is just that if you ask ten different people to recall the same event, you will likely get ten very different stories and each one of them will swear on a Bible they are correct. In fact, I had a former co-worker who was a retired FBI Special Agent, and he flat out told me that humans make for horrible witnesses because memories are so inconsistent and impressionable. I asked him if that was the reason that on the TV show COPS why, when the police chased down a perp, they would stand in a circle afterward and retell the story to each other so that everyone was consistent. He refused to answer that question,

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100% correct. That's why I used Dr. Giesecke specifically. No matter who you think shot JFK, I think that you will probably agree that the left side of JFK's head was not the side that was blown out. He was questioned several times whether it was the left or right, and he confirmed his memory is the left.

And we aren't talking about some idiot off the street here. Dr. Giesecke served honorably as a Captain in the US Army, graduated from UTMB medical school and became an anesthesiologist, which is one of the more competitive practices in medicine. He was a well loved and respected professor at UTSW Medical School and had a long practice in medicine.

It is absolutely true that eye witnesses are often not great and ear witnesses are probably worse. And there was tons of conflicting eyewitness testimony recorded in Dealy Plaza and throughout the entire investigation.

It would be WAY more suspicious if all the testimony followed the same pattern. There should be conflicts in testimony because different people naturally perceive and remember events differently and not always correctly.

Ben Shapiro talks about the House Committee thing yesterday. Cued it up to the right time. I haven't listened yet.

That video pretty much could have been made by him as a play by play mocking posters on this thread.

That video appears to have been a thread killer

Funny Shapiro "doesn't care", but then does a 1 hour special to help promote Posners book.



There is plenty of evidence that exists. A video that appears to show a frontal headshot. CIA lying about their involvement with Oswald. Close associates of LBJ that are able to establish a motive.

Unfortunately, the bad actors didn't keep a diary of any treasonous plot to be entered into the archives. So we are left with an overwhelming amount of "official" content that promotes the wacko lone shooter narrative.

Posner says "there isn't a single leaked memo" linking CIA to any involvement in JFK murder. Lol

So where did the front shooter shoot from that he was able to get away without anyone seeing them?

While perusing a video from 2022 by Robert Groden, who has written several books on the assassination (none of which I've read), I discovered the existence of a memo from Director of CIA , John McCone, to James Rowley Chief U.S. Secret Service dated March 3, 1964.

In it, McCone admitted that "Oswald subject was trained by this agency, under the cover of the Office of Naval Intelligence, for Soviet assignments…Subject received additional indoctrination at our own Camp Peary site from September 8 to October 17, 1958, and participated in a few relatively minor assignments until arrangements were made for his entry to the Soviet Union in September 1959. While in the Soviet Union, he was on special assignment in the area of Minsk, it would not be advantageous at this time to divulge the specific of that assignment…"

I took screenshots of the memo from the video and copied the quoted text verbatim from it. I've tried to find a copy of the memo on the internet, to no avail. Perhaps others might be able to.

I've never heard this information before today, and it confirms what I had long assumed, and is just one more piece of the puzzle that makes sense.

BoerneGator said:

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While perusing a video from 2022 by Robert Groden, who has written several books on the assassination (none of which I've read), I discovered the existence of a memo from Director of CIA , John McCone, to James Rowley Chief U.S. Secret Service dated March 3, 1964.

In it, McCone admitted that "Oswald subject was trained by this agency, under the cover of the Office of Naval Intelligence, for Soviet assignments…Subject received additional indoctrination at our own Camp Peary site from September 8 to October 17, 1958, and participated in a few relatively minor assignments until arrangements were made for his entry to the Soviet Union in September 1959. While in the Soviet Union, he was on special assignment in the area of Minsk, it would not be advantageous at this time to divulge the specific of that assignment…"

I took screenshots of the memo from the video and copied the quoted text verbatim from it. I've tried to find a copy of the memo on the internet, to no avail. Perhaps others might be able to.

I've never heard this information before today, and it confirms what I had long assumed, and is just one more piece of the puzzle that makes sense.

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https://steemit.com/news/@garrickalder/garrick-alder-mccone-rowley-fake-memo-lee-harvey-oswald-published-02-july-2018

Long since debunked in the same way Little Green Footballs debunked the Dan Rather Memogate/Killian Documents when Rather tried to take down George W. Bush. The people that forged the document made errors on trying to copy the typewriter font.

This is a two month old video (February 2025) of Tucker Carlson interviewing Jeffrey Morley after Trump issued his latest EO on the release of unredacted JFK archives. Morley reiterates that he's not a Trump "fan" but that he's thankful for this "move" by Trump. He is relentless in his pursuit of the truth, which makes me hopeful we are one day closer to obtaining it.

Guitarsoup said:

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Ben Shapiro talks about the House Committee thing yesterday. Cued it up to the right time. I haven't listened yet.

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The total lack of self awareness by people who hold to these wild conspiratorial beliefs (JFK, moon landings, flat earth, lizard people, etc.) is just so ******* hilarious.

There are thousands of books and papers written on the pathology of this stuff, and every discussion about them follows the layout in those documents exactly. These people create a caricature of themselves by being so rote and robotic that they willingly follow the fallacious thinking they are mocked for so reliably that you can generally give them their own arguments before they do if you so choose.

This thread is plays out literally exactly as Shapiro describes, and they just keep chugging along blissfully unaware of how basic and transparent their charade is to others.

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Long since debunked in the same way Little Green Footballs debunked the Dan Rather Memogate/Killian Documents when Rather tried to take down George W. Bush. The people that forged the document made errors on trying to copy the typewriter font.

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I remember watching that unfold. Damn near wore out F5 refreshing. The beginnings of the Pajamahadeen.

BoerneGator said:

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While perusing a video from 2022 by Robert Groden, who has written several books on the assassination (none of which I've read), I discovered the existence of a memo from Director of CIA , John McCone, to James Rowley Chief U.S. Secret Service dated March 3, 1964.

In it, McCone admitted that "Oswald subject was trained by this agency, under the cover of the Office of Naval Intelligence, for Soviet assignments…Subject received additional indoctrination at our own Camp Peary site from September 8 to October 17, 1958, and participated in a few relatively minor assignments until arrangements were made for his entry to the Soviet Union in September 1959. While in the Soviet Union, he was on special assignment in the area of Minsk, it would not be advantageous at this time to divulge the specific of that assignment…"

I took screenshots of the memo from the video and copied the quoted text verbatim from it. I've tried to find a copy of the memo on the internet, to no avail. Perhaps others might be able to.

I've never heard this information before today, and it confirms what I had long assumed, and is just one more piece of the puzzle that makes sense.

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The memo was fake

He won't reply to that. He never does when he's proven wrong.

So you say. Who do those who say it's fake say produced it?

BoerneGator said:

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So you say. Who do those who say it's fake say produced it?

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It's a forgery produced years after the fact by someone who took an unrelated secret service memo reference number, changed the date and attempted to pass it off as a CIA memo from early 1964. The memo reference number can be traced to the specific secret service document and, obviously, no document from the CIA with that reference number ever existed. It's actually a pretty lazy forgery since the heading and reference number aren't even in CIA formatting.

The identity of the forger isn't really relevant once you can prove the document is fake, as a motivation is no longer needed. It's fake regardless of who did it or why.

Boerne reminds me of Colonel Flagg on MASH.

"Aha!!!! Got ya!!! See, the CIA made it look like a secret service memo because that's what we want you to think! The one that leaked it made it LOOK like a forgery to throw off his trail!! He's got you…right…where…he…wants you!"

Colonel Flagg

Infection_Ag11 said:

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The total lack of self awareness by people who hold to these wild conspiratorial beliefs (JFK, moon landings, flat earth, lizard people, etc.) is just so ******* hilarious.

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You forgot lack of self awareness in people who had wild conspiracy beliefs about COVID originating from wet market and vaccines stopping the spread.

Anytime someone invokes flat earth to marginalize another conspiracy, it's a sign of desperation. Not accepting the the lone shooter narrative and not accepting earth's shape is a ridiculous comparison.

One conspiracy theory proven, proves them all.

I took a logic course at A&M that says that is not logical.

Still waiting for the location of the front shooter you say was proven by Z313.

Everybody knows it was the grassy knoll! It will be delicious the day the lone gunman-magic bullet theory is disproven. Btw, I noticed that the Parkland doctors documentary is on Netflix again…

Not a front shot, that is a side shot. Quite visible to the man in the railroad watchtower and no one was seen with a rifle there, though many people ran to that location seconds after the last shot. Did the shooter just disappear?

No, the shooter from the grassy knoll is named James Files and he confessed to it in the 90s…

BQ78 said:

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Still waiting for the location of the front shooter you say was proven by Z313.

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I already posted an aerial view of area a suppressed frontal shooter would have been.

Also, it would be right frontal headshot. In terms of "disappearing", yes, like the DC sniper disappeared many times. Could have been from a vehicle. Obviously there is no public info to prove who a frontal shooter was or where he was precisely. So simply taking the lone shooter narrative to bank is safest position.

All the climatologists and data also say man is causing climate change, so its safe and easy to criticize those who claim its a BS narrative.

FobTies said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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The total lack of self awareness by people who hold to these wild conspiratorial beliefs (JFK, moon landings, flat earth, lizard people, etc.) is just so ******* hilarious.

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You forgot lack of self awareness in people who had wild conspiracy beliefs about COVID originating from wet market and vaccines stopping the spread.

Anytime someone invokes flat earth to marginalize another conspiracy, it's a sign of desperation. Not accepting the the lone shooter narrative and not accepting earth's shape is a ridiculous comparison.

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The claims are equally ridiculous based on the available evidence

BboroAg said:

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No, the shooter from the grassy knoll is named James Files and he confessed to it in the 90s…

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James Files is an interesting character, and if you believe all his stories, he is essentially the Forrest Gump of the underworld. He also joined the Army in Jan 59 and was in Laos with the 82nd by that summer. When famous journalist Edward Jay Epstein tracked down James Files' history in Nov 63, he found he was with Files' wife in Chicago - she was hospitalized. Files then said it was actually his secret twin brother that was with is wife in Chicago while he shot Kennedy and that he killed his brother shortly after 11/22. He also trained everyone for the Bay of Pigs, according to him.

Files also claimed that LHO picked him up a the airport, drove him around Dallas and pointed out the route of the parade with sniper locations. Notable only because LHO couldn't drive and didn't own a car.

Dr. McClelland remembering what he saw, and his conclusions re: JFK's mortal wound site

I'm curious how anyone watching this account from Dr. McClelland can discount his account of what he saw, and explain how the wound he described could have possibly resulted from a rifle shot from the TDS. Mind you he described a wound 5 inches in diameter. Others in attendance agreed with his assessment. Never mind the single bullet theory, which is nothing but implausible…

How does one rationalize that wound? The only way it can be done is to choose to ignore or disbelieve Dr. McCelland. Fast forward to about the 12 minute mark for his description of what he observed of JFK's massive exit wound in the back of his head. BTW, it makes perfect sense that he (nor others in attendance that day) would have taken the time to search for the entry point for that wound, and it would have been unnecessary and inappropriate to have done so after JFK was pronounced dead.

NOVA got special permission to take the Parkland Doctors including Dr. McClelland to the National Archives and from the Kennedy family where they could go into a room at the Archives and review all the autopsy images of JFK and see how they work with their own memory. I have cued up the video to the relevant time. .




Notable quotes from Dr. Robert McClelland:

"I find no discrepancy between the wounds as they are shown very vividly in these photographs and what I remember very vividly."

"There doesn't seem to be any sort of wound in the area where I had drawn the picture which showed this large hole."

"We simply were performing a tracheostomy and felt that it was not an appropriate thing to do at the time to examine the head wound."

Infection_Ag11 said:

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The claims are equally ridiculous based on the available evidence

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Thinking the evidence disproving lone shooter is equal to the evidence disproving flat earth is pretty remarkable. I think any rational person on either side of the JFK debate could recognize they are in 2 totally different ballparks.

Guitarsoup said:

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NOVA got special permission to take the Parkland Doctors including Dr. McClelland to the National Archives and from the Kennedy family where they could go into a room at the Archives and review all the autopsy images of JFK and see how they work with their own memory. I have cued up the video to the relevant time. .




Notable quotes from Dr. Robert McClelland:

"I find no discrepancy between the wounds as they are shown very vividly in these photographs and what I remember very vividly."

"There doesn't seem to be any sort of wound in the area where I had drawn the picture which showed this large hole."

"We simply were performing a tracheostomy and felt that it was not an appropriate thing to do at the time to examine the head wound."

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Was this post supposed to confirm a back of head entry wound?

I heard nothing but totally ambiguity. They claimed that they were too focused on saving JFK's life to notice, or be able confirm, an entry/exit wound. So basically it was not obvious and was inconclusive at best in person.

At the 50.20 mark McClelland says the tiny bullet hole on back of scalp DRAWING was essentially the pathologist putting together the blown out wound, as if it was an intact flap that could be held back for a photo op. Seems unlikely.

There are what appears to be very graphic photos of JFKs wounds available showing his side and face. Yet the back of scalp small intact entry wound image is a drawing based on pathologist testimony.

As I have stated several times, the video and ballistics science is more reliable than all the human speculation based on photos of a blown up head, tainted by knowledge that a rear shooter was responsible.

FobTies said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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The claims are equally ridiculous based on the available evidence

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Thinking the evidence disproving lone shooter is equal to the evidence disproving flat earth is pretty remarkable. I think any rational person on either side of the JFK debate could recognize they are in 2 totally different ballparks.

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The shots that killed Kennedy came from a single gun in a single location, and the general direction/location of them is known. That is a fact based on irrefutable scientific evidence and any other claim regarding the shots themselves is impossible in the physical universe in which we reside. From a pure "is it possible" standpoint, it's as absurd as claiming the earth is flat. Both claims are scientifically impossible.

Arguing it wasn't Oswald that shot him, or that it was but he was part of a larger conspiracy, are different claims. Both are dubious and are refuted by a large body of evidence, and more importantly given the burden of proof there is no solid evidence FOR either claim to date, but neither are technically impossible. But claiming multiple shooters in multiple locations is impossible unless you want to claim one of the gunmen didn't actually end up shooting at him.

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As I have stated several times, the video and ballistics science is more reliable than all the human speculation based on photos of a blown up head, tainted by knowledge that a rear shooter was responsible.

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The video, audio, photographic and ballistic evidence all demonstrate that three shots were fired, two struck Kennedy and all three came from a single location in the general direction of the upper southeast corner of the school book depository. The ONLY "evidence" that refutes this is SOME subjective eyewitness testimony, which in light of the overall body of objective evidence can be dismissed. And even the eyewitness evidence on the aggregate supports the objective data, as over 80% of recorded eyewitness testimony supports three shots coming from behind the motorcade which is actually remarkable if you know anything about eyewitness testimony from spontaneous high stress events.

The fact that many people don't understand the physics of fast moving projectiles and what happens when they hit people moving in certain directions at certain relative rates of speed is not evidence of any conspiracy.