Trump-Vance-Zelenskyy

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samurai_science
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 1:26p, 4/17/25
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Fanatical claim here. Curious to see if this will be debunked/corroborated.

Looks legit to me
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ReturnOfTheAg
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In reply to samurai_science • 1:33p, 4/17/25
AG
samurai_science said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Fanatical claim here. Curious to see if this will be debunked/corroborated.

Looks legit to me


Oh yes, the RUSSIAN journalist can be trusted
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oh no
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1:42p, 4/17/25
AG
i distrust Russian journalists equally as much as I distrust Ukrainian, Palestinian, and most American journalists.
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nortex97
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In reply to oh no • 2:20p, 4/17/25
AG
Exactly.

Finally, she is right about something.

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ReturnOfTheAg
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In reply to oh no • 2:26p, 4/17/25
AG
oh no said:
i distrust Russian journalists equally as much as I distrust Ukrainian, Palestinian, and most American journalists.


To be fair, American journalists are critical of their government - many times to a fault.

Russian journalists would end up in a coffin if they even tried
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oh no
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In reply to ReturnOfTheAg • 2:44p, 4/17/25
AG
Quote:
American journalists are critical of their government - many times to a fault.
like when they questioned all the covid tyranny mandates?
or the need/benefits and risks of wide open borders and 20 million mass migrants in four years?
or the great success of our Afghan exit? or bold leadership of inviting a "minor incursion" to start a war?
or the "fiery but mostly peaceful" protests vs the "insurrection" where we almost lost our democracy with zero shots fired and zero cops killed?
or the sanity of the leader of the free world and our commander in chief who forgot everyone's names, always got lost on stage shaking hands with ghosts, and wouldn't talk to people or press for four years?
or the portfolios and net worth of politicians who make less 200k/year in public service? even when their inexperienced and unqualified family members are making multimillion dollar deals overseas?

american journalists are only critical of politicians and officials who are against big-government socialists and bureaucrats. state-run pravda has it's marching orders.
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nortex97
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In reply to ReturnOfTheAg • 2:48p, 4/17/25
AG
Sure, and even more so in 'Ukraine'/Kiev.


War isn't simply good vs. evil, and it isn't an Oscars award ceremony either…
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nortex97
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6:16a, 4/18/25
AG
Rubio: US might 'move on' from Russia-Kiev peace talks.

Zelensky: Witkoff spreading 'Russian nonsense.'
Quote:
US special envoy Steve Witkoff has been spreading "nonsense" about Ukraine's territories, Vladimir Zelensky has claimed.

Although Witkoff is US President Donald Trump's Middle East envoy, he has met with Russian President Vladimir Putin three times this year in an effort to help broker a ceasefire between Kiev and Moscow. The diplomat mentioned that he had discussed Russian territorial demands, which angered Zelensky.

"I believe Mr. Witkoff has adopted the strategy of the Russian side. I think this is very dangerous, as he is wittingly or unwittingly spreading Russian narratives," the Ukrainian leader said on Thursday. He added that Witkoff has "no mandate" to discuss territorial changes.
Trump: 'not a fan' of Zelensky. BTW, Zelensky again demanded Trump pay a visit to Kiev to 'really understand.'

The Economist: 'Power monopolized in Ukraine.'
Some speculation the silly 'minerals' deal with Kiev will finally be signed around the 26th, though I am not convinced we'll ever really get anything out of it anyway. I think Trump will still wind up just walking away from Kiev.
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CS78
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In reply to nortex97 • 10:11a, 4/18/25
nortex97 said:
I think Trump will still wind up just walking away from Kiev.

He was an idiot for ever popping off about being able to force a peace deal. It shows that he was clueless. He's still stuck holding on to the idea that he could have prevented it. He childishly chose his position as nothing more than a counter to Bidens. If Putin would have invaded under Trump, you can bet Trumps position (and many others) would be 180* different. It's largely why Russian aggression is one of the only subjects that conservatives are split on.
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Woods Ag
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In reply to CS78 • 10:21a, 4/18/25
AG
CS78 said:
nortex97 said:
I think Trump will still wind up just walking away from Kiev.

He was an idiot for ever popping off about being able to force a peace deal. It shows that he was clueless. He's still stuck holding on to the idea that he could have prevented it. He childishly chose his position as nothing more than a counter to Bidens. If Putin would have invaded under Trump, you can bet Trumps position (and many others) would be 180* different. It's largely why Russian aggression is one of the only subjects that conservatives are split on.
He wouldn't have invaded, so we wouldn't have known what he would have done.

I don't disagree with you that he made a bold claim that his ass can't cash with regard to ending the war as fast as he said he could.
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nortex97
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In reply to Woods Ag • 10:32a, 4/18/25
AG
I don't think Trump realized how badly the Ukrainians are losing right now, nor Zelensky's (drug addled) state. The Oval Office tantrum really opened his/Vance' eyes I believe, and I've read he was also pissed about Z-man then returning to Europe to warm embraces from the Eurocrats there.

Just as with idiots domestically like Van Hollen, he's baited the Euro's/Zelensky into very unfavorable political negotiating postures/positions. Again just my speculation but he surely knew Putin wouldn't agree to a complete ceasefire so that the UFA could re-arm/re-equip. Trump is too transactional for that.
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oh no
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11:43a, 4/18/25
AG
Trump didn't realize how badly Lord Z and the euros want to keep the killing going.
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nortex97
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In reply to oh no • 1:58p, 4/18/25
AG
I do think he is disappointed, tbf.

Kids as young as 10:

It's going to happen, again just my take/opinion:
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to oh no • 2:33p, 4/18/25
oh no said:
Trump didn't realize how badly Lord Z and the euros want to keep the killing going.


Zelenskyy already agreed to the ceasefire. Russia is blocking it.
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samurai_science
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 2:57p, 4/18/25
J. Walter Weatherman said:
oh no said:
Trump didn't realize how badly Lord Z and the euros want to keep the killing going.


Zelenskyy already agreed to the ceasefire. Russia is blocking it.
Then let them fight it out, as long as we dont fund it, I dont care.
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JG88
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 4:50p, 4/18/25
J. Walter Weatherman said:
oh no said:
Trump didn't realize how badly Lord Z and the euros want to keep the killing going.


Zelenskyy already agreed to the ceasefire. Russia is blocking it.


Only because Trump cutoff aid and intelligence after Z went around saying it was going to be a long war still. I'm not aware of Russia countering, so that is on them if they didn't like the conditions. Still is was only a 30 day ceasefire, not a peace deal, and clearly Z had his arm twisted into signing.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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5:21p, 4/18/25
AG
Russia wants to see Ukraine call uncle

Ukraine needed the ceasefire, still does, but as it looks now they are not going to get it.

"Now Trump will really turn the heat up on Russia" was always hope. I still don't see it happening.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to JG88 • 7:03p, 4/18/25
JG88 said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
oh no said:
Trump didn't realize how badly Lord Z and the euros want to keep the killing going.


Zelenskyy already agreed to the ceasefire. Russia is blocking it.


Only because Trump cutoff aid and intelligence after Z went around saying it was going to be a long war still. I'm not aware of Russia countering, so that is on them if they didn't like the conditions. Still is was only a 30 day ceasefire, not a peace deal, and clearly Z had his arm twisted into signing.


May be true, but that was in response to the poster claiming Ukraine is the one keeping the war going. Which isn't correct. Russia is the only reason there is still fighting.
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Waffledynamics
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 7:13p, 4/18/25
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Russia wants to see Ukraine call uncle
Almost like Ukraine was never the one to blame at all for this, and Russia could stop the war any time they want, but they have maximalist objectives.
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nortex97
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 7:18p, 4/18/25
AG
Quote:
May be true, but that was in response to the poster claiming Ukraine is the one keeping the war going. Which isn't correct. Russia is the only reason there is still fighting.
Putin has been very clear about the requirements on their end for the war to stop, throughout the war. De-nazification, neutrality for Ukraine, etc.

While they are rolling forward it would be absurd for them to stop just to allow the EU to re-equip the UFA. The message from Europe/Kiev has consistently been…anything but peace.

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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to nortex97 • 8:05p, 4/18/25
nortex97 said:
Quote:
May be true, but that was in response to the poster claiming Ukraine is the one keeping the war going. Which isn't correct. Russia is the only reason there is still fighting.
Putin has been very clear about the requirements on their end for the war to stop, throughout the war. De-nazification, neutrality for Ukraine, etc.
While they are rolling forward it would be absurd for them to stop just to allow the EU to re-equip the UFA. The message from Europe/Kiev has consistently been…anything but peace.
Putin purposely made his demands absurd ("denazification" of a country led by a Jewish president as an example) when he could have just agreed to draw the lines where they are now and have a ceasefire while broader peace talks are put into place. Instead, he is the only person stopping the ceasefire.

Also, if Russia wasn't planning on breaking any ceasefire and invading again why would they worry about Ukraine rearming?

It's up to them when the war stops, so let's stop pretending Ukraine, the US or EU has any control over when that happens. And then we can also dispense with the fantasy that Russia is in any way interested in peace.
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nortex97
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 8:08p, 4/18/25
AG
Because Ukraine just had an award ceremony the Russians struck (In Sumy) regarding their invasion of Russia, for one. The history is…mixed, at best.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to nortex97 • 8:49p, 4/18/25
nortex97 said:
Because Ukraine just had an award ceremony the Russians struck (In Sumy) regarding their invasion of Russia, for one. The history is…mixed, at best.


And they only invaded that tiny part of Russia to try and get leverage to stop Russia's attempted takeover of their entire country. The same reason for any Ukrainian attacks inside Russia. As always, all blame goes back to Putin for deciding to invade.

If Russia is actually planning on honoring any peace deal or ceasefire they shouldn't care what Ukraine does to build up their defenses.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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9:16p, 4/18/25
AG
When you realize you're in a hole, you're supposed to stop digging….
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Waffledynamics
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 10:36p, 4/18/25
AG
This is not Ukraine using child soldiers. It's giving their youth training at a young age because the war is expected to drag on for a long time.

These kids are not seeing active combat.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to Waffledynamics • 12:01a, 4/19/25
AG
Waffledynamics said:
This is not Ukraine using child soldiers. It's giving their youth training at a young age because the war is expected to drag on for a long time.

These kids are not seeing active combat.


It's completely indefensible to start training that young.
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nortex97
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 6:59a, 4/19/25
AG
The Ukrainians are absolutely desperate. They also put out a video last week of Russian POW on crutches approaching barbed wire to be shot on camera, to try to drum up enlistments. Not putting it here because it is disgusting/grotesque.

Gross.

Some sitrep speculation;
Quote:
Granted, there has been some headway made by Witkoff, who appeared to acknowledge that a US-Russian rapprochement would bring the world to a different kind of turning point, hinting at ongoing discussions that range much greater than merely Ukraine, but something more akin to Putin's visionary global security architecture rejigging.

But Russian media jumped the gun yesterday announcing that Witkoff had now de facto approved of Ukraine giving up "all five" contested regions to Russia. Witkoff reportedly clarified that he was still only referring to the five regions at the current point of 'occupation'which precludes giving up cities like Kherson and Zaporozhye. This can only mean we're still no where near agreement on core conditions between Russia and the US.
…
Quote:
The fact of the matter is, Zelensky has now given a list of Ukraine's own "red lines": they include no demilitarization, and in fact stipulate specifically that Ukraine will increase its military strength at all costs. This one point alone makes the whole charade utterly futile as Russia can never allow a threatening militarized power like this to exist on its frontier.

Now Ukrainians believe it is simply inevitable that the US will be out of the picture, and Ukraine forced to subsist merely on European support. So the big question becomes: will Europe alone be enough?
One of the top Ukrainian analysts chimes in:
Quote:
Myroshnykov:
Trump doesn't even want to sell weapons to Ukraine.
Yes, he refused to sell the Patriot air defense system.
The source so far is the German Bild, which is not reliable. I would wait for American sources.
But overall, the train of thought is clear.
They will transfer (with pauses and blockages) the aid that was allocated and contracted under Biden, and that's it.
From now on, arms supplies will be exclusively the province of Europe and other allies.
Sounds good to me, I guess.
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Waffledynamics
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 8:53a, 4/19/25
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Waffledynamics said:
This is not Ukraine using child soldiers. It's giving their youth training at a young age because the war is expected to drag on for a long time.

These kids are not seeing active combat.


It's completely indefensible to start training that young.


No it isn't. We used to have marksmanship classes in schools in the USA. We have ROTC programs and patriotic indoctrination all over the place.

We live in a luxurious place of having two oceans, Canada, and Mexico bordering us. We don't live in a place where a gigantic neighbor would like to kill, rape, pillage, and annex us. It makes perfect sense, especially during an active invasion, to make sure the citizenry is prepared.

The only thing that seems to make it indefensible to some is that the one doing it is Ukraine.
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Burdizzo
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In reply to ReturnOfTheAg • 9:18a, 4/19/25
AG
ReturnOfTheAg said:
oh no said:
i distrust Russian journalists equally as much as I distrust Ukrainian, Palestinian, and most American journalists.


To be fair, American journalists are critical of their government - many times to a fault.

Russian journalists would end up in a coffin if they even tried



To be fair, the American journalism community (generally speaking) is only critical of the American government when the Republicans hold office.
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GAC06
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 9:36a, 4/19/25
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Waffledynamics said:
This is not Ukraine using child soldiers. It's giving their youth training at a young age because the war is expected to drag on for a long time.

These kids are not seeing active combat.


It's completely indefensible to start training that young.


Oh my

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/09/24/europe/russia-schools-pro-war-parade-grounds-intl

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/04/07/in-photos-russian-high-schoolers-undergo-basic-military-and-first-aid-training-a80751

https://jamestown.org/program/russia-is-breeding-for-war-through-youth-para-militarization/

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Tecolote
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In reply to GAC06 • 9:57a, 4/19/25
AG
GAC06 said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Waffledynamics said:
This is not Ukraine using child soldiers. It's giving their youth training at a young age because the war is expected to drag on for a long time.

These kids are not seeing active combat.


It's completely indefensible to start training that young.


Oh my

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/09/24/europe/russia-schools-pro-war-parade-grounds-intl

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/04/07/in-photos-russian-high-schoolers-undergo-basic-military-and-first-aid-training-a80751

https://jamestown.org/program/russia-is-breeding-for-war-through-youth-para-militarization/

I wonder how many people on here outraged at the training of how to properly handle a firearm by youngsters have watched Red Dawn 100 times.
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nortex97
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9:58a, 4/19/25
AG
Putin has declared a unilateral Easter truce:

As Kiev regime faces street riots over USAID-style idiocy, timed to start yesterday, on Good Friday:


Edit: wrong post above.
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torrid
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10:03a, 4/19/25
AG
What a saint. What a statesman. Nobel Peace Prize inbound.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to Waffledynamics • 10:14a, 4/19/25
Waffledynamics said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Waffledynamics said:
This is not Ukraine using child soldiers. It's giving their youth training at a young age because the war is expected to drag on for a long time.

These kids are not seeing active combat.


It's completely indefensible to start training that young.


No it isn't. We used to have marksmanship classes in schools in the USA. We have ROTC programs and patriotic indoctrination all over the place.

We live in a luxurious place of having two oceans, Canada, and Mexico bordering us. We don't live in a place where a gigantic neighbor would like to kill, rape, pillage, and annex us. It makes perfect sense, especially during an active invasion, to make sure the citizenry is prepared.

The only thing that seems to make it indefensible to some is that the one doing it is Ukraine.


Yep. And if Russia was doing it they'd be reposting lord bebo tweets blasting Ukraine for forcing Russia to put children in the military. Somehow it's always Ukraine's fault for defending themselves.
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nortex97
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In reply to Burdizzo • 10:16a, 4/19/25
AG
Quote:
To be fair, the American journalism community (generally speaking) is only critical of the American government when the Republicans hold office.
Yep. Also to be fair only Kiev, as between Moscow and Kiev, has deliberately tortured and killed an American journalist, at least in the past 10 years.

Quote:
On February 12, 2024, Lira's father revealed that Lira had died at the age of 55 while in Ukrainian custody, with confirmation coming from the U.S. Department of State three days later. A letter given by Lira's father to the far-left websiteGrayzone claimed that Lira had been suffering from pneumonia and was supposed to undergo a procedure to reduce edema pressure in his lungs. Lira also claimed that Ukrainian officials were negligent in addressing his worsening health, and Lira's father has placed blame on both the U.S. and Ukraine. "I cannot accept the way my son has died. He was tortured, extorted, incommunicado for 8 months and 11 days and the US Embassy did nothing to help my son," Lira's father said in an email provided to Grayzone. "The responsibility of this tragedy is [with] the dictator Zelensky with the concurrence of a senile American President, Joe Biden." Neither American nor Ukrainian officials have provided any additional information on Lira's condition leading up to his death or measures taken to address any illness, with the State Department simply offering its "sincerest condolences to the family on their loss."
Meanwhile;
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