fig96 said:

---

Fair point, and that's something Jozy actually is really good at.

---

That was kinda my point, he's light years better at this than anyone in our pool.

Where's Brian Ching when you need him lol

Quote:

---

Soto ran into a similar issue this past year, and Sargent is dealing with it on Werder Bremen.

---

I think Sargent's issue is a bit different. He's getting minutes and starts but Bremen is just bad right now. Jozy wasn't getting minutes at all at Sunderland.

It's unfortunate Woods stayed @ Hamburg and basically wrote himself out of national team conversation.

akm91 said:

---

Quote:

---

Soto ran into a similar issue this past year, and Sargent is dealing with it on Werder Bremen.

---

I think Sargent's issue is a bit different. He's getting minutes and starts but Bremen is just bad right now. Jozy wasn't getting minutes at all at Sunderland.

It's unfortunate Woods stayed @ Hamburg and basically wrote himself out of national team conversation.

---

Jozy was their starting striker pretty much all season, if memory serves.

Bremen are bad. However, Wood being at Hamburg shouldn't take him out of contention considering where some of the other guys are playing. No shame there.

Pahdz said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Fair point, and that's something Jozy actually is really good at.

---

That was kinda my point, he's light years better at this than anyone in our pool.

Where's Brian Ching when you need him lol

---

Yup, I followed Ching was a beast when it came to hold up play too, we really don't have anyone else like that in the pool currently.

Every once in a while you'll run across that rare player who's both great at that and a lethal goalscorer (Lukaku comes to mind, Haaland is on the way), but just having that striker who can possess and slow down play can be a huge benefit.

And really, from watching Sargent, that's where I see him needing the most development. He can get behind a defense and can time out runs pretty well (when he actually gets service) but the back-to-goal stuff isn't his strong suit. Interestingly, I really think Zardes has gotten leaps and bounds better at unlocking defenses with angled runs, but he too doesn't hold up play all that well - just a different kind of player than Jozy.

I'm just a lowly U11 girls coach almost done with his USSF Grassroots licensure, but if you're going to run a lone striker system, I'd argue that hold up play ability might be higher on the "skills required" chart than goal scoring ability. That's up for debate though.

I enjoy watching offenses that don't have a typical back to goal #9 and have attacking players that are interchangeable, so it all depends on how we want to play. If Berhalter needs a 9 then we might be in trouble. I think someone will step up by 2022 or we will have 3-4 great attackers that give us an unpredictable offense, so I'm not too worried about it.

Pahdz said:

---

I'm just a lowly U11 girls coach almost done with his USSF Grassroots licensure, but if you're going to run a lone striker system, I'd argue that hold up play ability might be higher on the "skills required" chart than goal scoring ability. That's up for debate though.

---

I agree with this. A #9 doesn't have to score goals if they're setting up everyone else.

Serious question: does Jozy set up goals? I know he doesn't score a lot, but I have never seen him really set up goals either.

mrmill3218 said:

---

Serious question: does Jozy set up goals? I know he doesn't score a lot, but I have never seen him really set up goals either.

---

Oh look, here is an unmeasurable stat I'll ask people to provide so nobody can argue with me

Come on...do better

mrmill3218 said:

---

Serious question: does Jozy set up goals? I know he doesn't score a lot, but I have never seen him really set up goals either.

---

When healthy, Jozy's pretty good in terms of goals + assists for Toronto.

2019: 22 games played (1700 minutes), 11 goals and 7 assists --> .82 G+A per game
2018: 13 games played (880 minutes), 7 goals and 1 assist --> .62 G+A per game
2017: 27 games played (2200 minutes), 15 goals and 6 assists --> .78 G+A per game

I mean more for the national team.

Just asking a question, my man.

mrmill3218 said:

---

I mean more for the national team.

---

I believe he has around 115 caps, 40+ goals and around 15-20 assists for the national team. I looked his stats up today but forgot to post a response.

We can all argue over whether or not that makes him a good #9 for the USMNT but I will also say that stats only tell part of the story. Now the different systems the players play in has a role in their production as well, which we should keep in mind.

Looks to me like he's been a productive player for the USMNT over his career.

Stats in soccer are a terrible way to evaluate a player's effectiveness IMO. It's like evaluating a nose tackle or a baseball players defensive ability (although they've got somewhat better at this).

Pahdz said:

---

Stats in soccer are a terrible way to evaluate a player's effectiveness IMO. It's like evaluating a nose tackle or a baseball players defensive ability (although they've got somewhat better at this).

---

If Roberto Firmino was judged on this he wouldn't ever play for Liverpool but he's Klopp's first choice at striker for a reason. I think choosing any #9 just based on that is a bad idea.

There is a lot of good analysis of the game, and the tactics that were being employed on Twitter. I dont know if we want to junk the thread up with it, though.

That'd be a welcome distraction from the current discussion.

https://susaeta.substack.com/p/berhalter-has-a-scoring-problem

https://susaeta.substack.com/p/11122020-usa-vs-wales

https://halfspaces.com/halfspaces-player-grades-wales-vs-usmnt-11-12-20/

https://watke.substack.com/p/tyler-adams-is-best-at-defense

There are some podcasts out, but I haven't listened to them. I haven't been able to get into podcasts about soccer for some reason. I'm not saying we have to blindly agree with everything in the articles, but there are some interesting insights. A lot of good gifs/clips of the game in some of them as well.

I saw a team with. Bunch of jive turkey moves that couldn't pass or shoot
Lots of pretty flicks that did nothing

Like the talent but this coach ain't Herb Brooks

Hey what the hell man?

MookieBlaylock said:

---

I saw a team with. Bunch of jive turkey moves that couldn't pass or shoot
Lots of pretty flicks that did nothing

Like the talent but this coach ain't Herb Brooks

---

what?

In regard to podcasts, I like The Scuffed pod. All USMNT/Americans abroad based.

There are USMNT practice vids being released. Tim Ream is sporting a cool as hell hair and beard combo. Never been a big fan of his game, but his look is international quality now. Play him!

H.E. Pennypacker said:

---

In regard to podcasts, I like The Scuffed pod. All USMNT/Americans abroad based.

There are USMNT practice vids being released. Tim Ream is sporting a cool as hell hair and beard combo. Never been a big fan of his game, but his look is international quality now. Play him!

---

I like to read all of their opinions they share on twitter, so I am sure their podcast is of similar quality. I just can't do soccer podcasts for some reason, I need it in article form!
Tim Ream is very skilled with the ball at his feet, its just the rest of his game that is a little lacking for international play. Could do worse than him though for sure.

Another game against Panama today, @1:45, he says he is mostly running out the same players but will play "a striker" today.

At least GGG is formally acknowledging that Lleget isn't a striker.

Though the fact that he began his career as a defender before playing midfield for club and country prior to starting as a striker this past game supports his roster inclusion nicely

I kind of want to play him at goalkeeper now.

I mean, we're playing Panama today...

i wondered initially if Lleget being up top meant Greg was trying more of a 4-4-2 instead of a 4-3-3, with Lleget being the CAM, but that didn't make sense as the other two forwards are more wingers as opposed to strikers, which won't attack and score a lot in a 4-4-2, and the general field positions and high press where Lleget was moving looked like he was trying to be a 4-3-3 #9. None of it makes sense, other than Berhalter is just searching/ hoping to magically find some decent #9's out the blue with his midfielders. Seems that Jozy has fallen out of favor and Sargent needs to get much better at hold-up play, but IMO, the overall player pool needs DOZENS more true back-to-the-goal #9 center forwards coming up. There seems to be a good pipeline of defenders, midfielders, and wingers. Just no #9 strikers. Why is that?

I mean, it's probably just numbers when it all comes down to it.

How many world class 9's are out there? I can only think of a handful in world football, most national teams have a player who holds up play well enough to let attackers play off him on the wings. Those wide midfielders, second strikers, and #10's are the stars.

Looking back over the last decade I can't think of anyone in an American shirt other than Jozy (and before that McBride) that's really stood out at the position.

I was confused as to why Reyna and Konrad refused to make runs behind the lines against wales. Musah or Mckennie couldn't done the same but everyone just seemed to want the ball at their feet. I don't see much wrong with the way Lleget played and I more blame the other players and Berhalter himself.

I hope they look better today but if they just sit back and wait for balls at their feet...we're going to have a boring one to watch.

Looks like a lineup capable of winning a Gold Medal in Tokyo