Fantastic episode this week. Some really great insight, especially into all the potential/likely symbolism, some great callbacks that come close to proving that the creators had this plan from the beginning, etc...

Where will #Westworld lead us in the second half of Season 4?

Join @jowrotethis, @DavidShoemaker, and @Danny_Heifetz as they discuss their theories and recap the latest episode, "Generation Loss."https://t.co/G7alwwQNbd

— Ringer Podcast Network (@ringerpodcasts) July 19, 2022

Just started the season and got HEAVY Matrix Resurrections vibes from the Christina story.

Yep. Same studio too (Warner Bros).

Just wait 'til Neil Patrick Harris shows up…

TCTTS said:

---

So, yeah, the broad strokes of basically everything we predicted just came to fruition. Only sooner than I expected, that's for sure. But I love that this turn marks the halfway point of the season, and we now have four episodes to focus on infiltrating New York and attempting to take down Halores.

Also, a great, wink-wink episode title: "Generation Loss." But now that we know most of the humans under Halores' control are the next generation (meaning the majority of them were born in the wake of season three), I have no idea how Christina/Dolores plays into all of this, IF she's actually "human," as Lisa Joy has coyly alluded. Because the math just doesn't add up now. So, maybe Halores/Host William are STILL looking for the key to the Sublime, 23 years later? And they created a new host version of Dolores to try and somehow get the location of the key out of her? Based on the trailers, we know there are scenes yet to come that take place at the Hoover Dam, so the data center definitely still comes into play.

Either way, it's going to be interesting to see if Teddy was sent by Halores to help influence Christine/Dolores in some nefarious way - or - if he was sent by Bernard and Maeve and co to try and get Christine/Dolores off her loop. Can't wait to see how it plays out.

---

If I remember correctly they made it a point to focus on that cut on her arm from Peter attacking her was still there after waking up. Then a least one other time. Hint? Misdirection? I have no idea!

I will say this season has sort of redeemed the after credits scene from season 2 that seemed really cool at the time and then like a dumb throwaway after season 3. So maybe they did have a plan.

Link to this scene?

TCTTS said:

---

Fantastic episode this week. Some really great insight, especially into all the potential/likely symbolism, some great callbacks that come close to proving that the creators had this plan from the beginning, etc...

Where will #Westworld lead us in the second half of Season 4?

Join @jowrotethis, @DavidShoemaker, and @Danny_Heifetz as they discuss their theories and recap the latest episode, "Generation Loss."https://t.co/G7alwwQNbd

— Ringer Podcast Network (@ringerpodcasts) July 19, 2022

---

Either that, or they are very good at incorporating those moments from previous seasons. Either way its good.

You'll absolutely never convince me they had a plan. They might have had a few notes they wanted to come back to.

Max Power said:

---

Another great episode, immediately after Maeve and William were buried it dawned on me what the weapon is, and I was super happy.

---

So the host MIB got buried/ left behind and is right underneath her? Maybe he's the weapon instead.

I do wonder if they're going to dig him up, but the weapon is clearly her.

I listened to the pod and there seemed to be some debate on when Caleb was killed. I thought it was clear that it was at the construction site (he went to black, Maeve is buried there), but two hosts thought it was back in Prohibition World. I can see how that whole thing being a simulation explains a bunch of behavior that doesn't really make sense, but I still lean toward him being shot in the tower with Hale.

Quinn said:

---

I listened to the pod and there seemed to be some debate on when Caleb was killed. I thought it was clear that it was at the construction site (he went to black, Maeve is buried there), but two hosts thought it was back in Prohibition World. I can see how that whole thing being a simulation explains a bunch of behavior that doesn't really make sense, but I still lean toward him being shot in the tower with Hale.

---

Faux Charlotte makes it clear it was in the tower, imo.
Whether that is the truth, who knows.

I think you're kind of mis-hearing what they're saying on the pod. I think they all agree he died at the construction site, but the disagreement was what exactly we're seeing as the audience.

The two guys thought that everything we saw was a fidelity test for Caleb. So that entire sequence of events, as we see it, was the test. So what we see is, in its entirety, a re-enactment of the events that led to Caleb's death at the construction site.

Joanna, and I agree with her, thinks everything we see is what really happened, up to the point that Charlotte wakes Caleb up. So it wasn't a re-enactment, it was the actual events, and then he died and wakes up and it's the future and he has the conversation with Hale.

I'm not sure this really makes a practical difference, but they believe their version because it makes all the weirdness around Hale being captured make sense (why wouldn't she fight back, why is she letting this happen, etc) because she knows it's a re-enactment. Joanna believes, in her version, that Hale acts that way because she knows that no backup is coming for Caleb and Maeve and so she's really still in control of events. Either way, Caleb dies at the construction site though.

bobinator said:

---

I think you're kind of mis-hearing what they're saying on the pod. I think they all agree he died at the construction site, but the disagreement was what exactly we're seeing as the audience.

The two guys thought that everything we saw was a fidelity test for Caleb. So that entire sequence of events, as we see it, was the test. So what we see is, in its entirety, a re-enactment of the events that led to Caleb's death at the construction site.

Joanna, and I agree with her, thinks everything we see is what really happened, up to the point that Charlotte wakes Caleb up. So it wasn't a re-enactment, it was the actual events, and then he died and wakes up and it's the future and he has the conversation with Hale.

I'm not sure this really makes a practical difference, but they believe their version because it makes all the weirdness around Hale being captured make sense (why wouldn't she fight back, why is she letting this happen, etc) because she knows it's a re-enactment. Joanna believes, in her version, that Hale acts that way because she knows that no backup is coming for Caleb and Maeve and so she's really still in control of events. Either way, Caleb dies at the construction site though.

---

That makes more sense, thanks. I agree that it doesn't really make a difference if what we were shown was real or a re-enactment.

It was a fun conversation though. Shows how even hardcore fans of this show can interpret what we're seeing differently.

I can't wait for this week's episode. I think they've done a brilliant job through four episodes of kind of setting the stage and getting things to this point, but now comes the hard part.

bobinator said:

---

I think you're kind of mis-hearing what they're saying on the pod. I think they all agree he died at the construction site, but the disagreement was what exactly we're seeing as the audience.

The two guys thought that everything we saw was a fidelity test for Caleb. So that entire sequence of events, as we see it, was the test. So what we see is, in its entirety, a re-enactment of the events that led to Caleb's death at the construction site.

Joanna, and I agree with her, thinks everything we see is what really happened, up to the point that Charlotte wakes Caleb up. So it wasn't a re-enactment, it was the actual events, and then he died and wakes up and it's the future and he has the conversation with Hale.

I'm not sure this really makes a practical difference, but they believe their version because it makes all the weirdness around Hale being captured make sense (why wouldn't she fight back, why is she letting this happen, etc) because she knows it's a re-enactment. Joanna believes, in her version, that Hale acts that way because she knows that no backup is coming for Caleb and Maeve and so she's really still in control of events. Either way, Caleb dies at the construction site though.

---

My takeaway as well. Good breakdown.

Does anyone here have any theories on:

a) How exactly Maeve is a weapon? Hale was able to patch her software so she can't control it, so what value does she have now?

b) What's going to happen with Dolores?

bobinator said:

---

Does anyone here have any theories on:

a) How exactly Maeve is a weapon? Hale was able to patch her software so she can't control it, so what value does she have now?

b) What's going to happen with Dolores?

---

a) Hale patched the host software, but did we get confirmation that she patched the tower the software? Otherwise, last we saw, Maeve was able to hack the mini-tower, and I'm assuming she'll ultimately be able to do the same to the primary tower in New York. Granted, Hale has no doubt come up with all kinds of new patches/advancements in the 23 years since, but I'm betting Maeve will be able to catch up in some way. Remember, Bernard still has access to the Sublime. So they could very well upload Maeve there for a bit, and the hosts there could give her all kinds of new advantages.

b) This one, I have no clue. If I had to guess, I'm assuming Bernard & co are the ones who retrieved Teddy from the Sublime, and are the ones who sent Teddy to New York to try and get Christine/Dolores off her loop, for whatever reason (which would put the Bernard/Frankie timeline a few days/weeks behind the Christine/Dolores timeline). That said, Christine's/Dolores' roommate is clearly being controlled by the tower, which would imply that Teddy is part of Hale's plan, for whatever reason, seeing as the roommate is the one advocating so hard for Christine/Dolores to date. But who knows, maybe Bernard & co hacked the system somehow and gained influence over the roommate too. This entire plot line has me scratching my head, but in a good way. I love that it could go either way.

Yeah, I dunno if I buy her being able to "hack" the big tower. Would be kind of silly if she's able to pull the same trick twice on a literal sentient supercomputer right?

Maybe my two questions have the same answer? Maybe Maeve is how they realize they can't just hack it because of the updates and it can only be done from within so that's why they're trying to help Dolores "see" or something.

But the filmmakers aren't going to build up all this "weapon" talk only to have the characters ultimately shrug their shoulders and be like, "I guess she's not an effective weapon after all." Whatever they end up doing, Maeve will be the key. And sure, it might not be as simple as her just standing next to the tower, closing her eyes, and hacking it, but I think that could at least be *part* of it. I could see it being, like, Mission: Impossible style, where everyone has a task, and they all have to execute their tasks in sync. Like, one team has to infiltrate one area, another team has to take down so-and-so, and Maeve won't be able to do whatever she needs to do unless all efforts are successful, all at exactly the right time. Maybe something along those lines.

They also might not even take down the tower/free humanity this season. Based on the trailers, I get the impression that the climax takes us back to the Hoover Dam. We've seen both Hale and Host William there in the trailers, and then Jeffrey Wright said that he filmed there as well last year, in a tweet reaction to the explosion yesterday. So everyone seems to end up there, for whatever reason. Granted, it could be before some bigger climax in New York, but who knows.

Could be.

I'm kind of hoping she's a "weapon" in a way that we haven't really seen yet. That something about how she was built or something is unique. Or she has some kind of specific knowledge the others don't (though that seems unlikely with everything that Bernard knows.

I think that would be more fun that it being her hacking powers again.

Or the dam scenes are earlier in time, new NYC isn't real but just a world in the sublime that Hale has trapped everyone in and the Bernard team needs Maeve to break in Matrix style.

(I don't think that's true, but having the NYC scenes be a simulation would solve for some of the weirdness with that plot. Arguing against this is that the show usually tips off scenes inside a computer by changing the aspect ratio we see)

I think it'll definitely be something new, like you're saying, for sure. I just know that, ultimately, they'll have to take down the tower as well, and that Maeve will play *some* role in that.

I think it was telling when Maeve referenced her programming to infiltrate the mainland. Maybe that leads to a flashback scene where we see why Ford gave her that mission.

Or we get something cheesy like "Maeve was with Delores prime at the end and is the only one to really understood her, so she shows that to Haleores and makes her see that world domination isn't what she really wanted after all"

amercer said:

---

Arguing against this is that the show usually tips off scenes inside a computer by changing the aspect ratio we see.

---

They mentioned this on that podcast but the scenes are only letterboxed when the characters know they're in a simulation.

Like this scene:

I wouldn't be completely shocked if where Dolores is isn't real, but at this point I'm inclined to believe that it is.

The trailer for next week shows Stubbs and that side of the rebels physically in New York. Granted, Dolores' part could technically still be virtual, but that seems unlikely. I think it's all 100% in the real world.

Yeah that's what I think too. Especially because of the tower references. That only makes sense if it's in the real world.

Calling my shot: "Christina" is some sort of host/human hybrid and has to shoot Bernard somehow a la Dolores/Arnold to gain consciousness/freedom from the black fly goo.

"Your humanity is cost effective" and Bernard saying he has to die on the path he chose from the sublime.

It doesn't make sense, to me, for Christina to be human in any form or fashion. Unless Hale is genetically manipulating people so that she looks exactly like a robot made in the old Westworld.

Wasn't there an unaccounted for pearl from last season?