What was the point of the entire rebels/Caleb/etc plot line?
Westworld Season 4
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Last: 3 yr ago by oragator
Horses are pretty fast in the future!
These last two episodes felt like the people that were in charge of writing this show went on strike after six episodes.
They said earlier in the episode that a few humans might survive for a few months, maybe a few years. So the assumption was that while Delores was chillin the sublime the humans were finishing the job, and then:
Delores' game would be on the few survivors to see if they were worthy of survival, or it would be after they were all dead. The latter seemed more likely and what was hinted at. But that's the unknown for next year, at least that's how I took it.
Before she killed herself (and apparently she can still act without her Pearl?), Chalores said that the opening to the sublime goes both ways, so Delores could come back into the real world if she wanted to to run her test. Or maybe she still had the ability to do it from where she was.
Delores' game would be on the few survivors to see if they were worthy of survival, or it would be after they were all dead. The latter seemed more likely and what was hinted at. But that's the unknown for next year, at least that's how I took it.
Before she killed herself (and apparently she can still act without her Pearl?), Chalores said that the opening to the sublime goes both ways, so Delores could come back into the real world if she wanted to to run her test. Or maybe she still had the ability to do it from where she was.
I assumed the original park was the sublime, because that's what they all knew.
By the way, the trucks in the future didn't look all that futuristic.
Ending also felt like it was the "just in case we don't get renewed" version. Could build a new story or just end it right there and let everyone know it was always a loop.
I don't know what you mean by "it was always a loop," that doesn't make any sense
That was good, actually thought the episode had a strong start with that sequence.
I don't either. I'm just getting at all the call backs and "the game begins where you end and ends where you begin" type stuff.bobinator said:
I don't know what you mean by "it was always a loop," that doesn't make any sense
Well, that sure was a season of television.
Have to say this season is definitely my least favorite so far. Most of the last few episodes kinda just felt like...stuff happening?
The plot was pretty meandering, motivations and goals were hazy at best, and there was no clear goal anyone was building toward. Seriously, I STILL have no idea what the hell William and Charlotte were doing most of the season. Even after they spell out in plain English that William wanted extinction, the "why" of it still makes no sense to me whatsoever. Nor could I tell you what Charlotte was ultimately trying to achieve.
And I still have no clue what the deal is with the "outliers". Where they went, what they're doing, or what they ultimately want to achieve. Or why Clementine wanted to go wherever they were
Furthermore, none of the fights in the finale meant anything to me since it was clear that death is completely meaningless at this point. I THINK the only people that are permanently dead now are William and Charlotte since their pearls are gone?
And did I miss something explaining why Charlotte decided to end herself rather than transcend? Did she just decide Dolores should be the last of their kind? (Assuming all the hosts are now dead, which I'm also not clear on.)
I like to think I paid attention to the season but I still couldn't summarize the plot if you asked me, which leads me to believe is was badly written and executed.
Have to say this season is definitely my least favorite so far. Most of the last few episodes kinda just felt like...stuff happening?
The plot was pretty meandering, motivations and goals were hazy at best, and there was no clear goal anyone was building toward. Seriously, I STILL have no idea what the hell William and Charlotte were doing most of the season. Even after they spell out in plain English that William wanted extinction, the "why" of it still makes no sense to me whatsoever. Nor could I tell you what Charlotte was ultimately trying to achieve.
And I still have no clue what the deal is with the "outliers". Where they went, what they're doing, or what they ultimately want to achieve. Or why Clementine wanted to go wherever they were
Furthermore, none of the fights in the finale meant anything to me since it was clear that death is completely meaningless at this point. I THINK the only people that are permanently dead now are William and Charlotte since their pearls are gone?
And did I miss something explaining why Charlotte decided to end herself rather than transcend? Did she just decide Dolores should be the last of their kind? (Assuming all the hosts are now dead, which I'm also not clear on.)
I like to think I paid attention to the season but I still couldn't summarize the plot if you asked me, which leads me to believe is was badly written and executed.
I also didn't get Halores saying "sentient life on earth has ended" when we just saw Caleb's daughter and her gf leaving NY. Maybe they are the last two people on earth?
I thought the same, but if so, even worse that it's not made abundantly clear that the entire population of Earth is actually gone.
This episode sucked ass.
I will likely keep watching, because I want to like it...but I would never recommend someone watch it at this point.
I will likely keep watching, because I want to like it...but I would never recommend someone watch it at this point.
She mentioned it would spread to hosts as well so this battle to the death humans are playing will eventually kill all humans and hosts. Unless there are more people hiding out in the desert the last 2 free humans we know of can't conceive. I'm assuming all infected humans worldwide are killing each other I wish they had made that clear or not. Only reference is last episode where Hale mentions "cities" plural.
Who is going to do maintenance on the Dam and take care of the server farm? Do they think think everything is going to run w/ no parts failing ever?
That's what the drone hosts are for. Nobody cares about their feelings because they don't have faces.
Agree that the scale has been an issue all season. They talk about multiple cities, but we've only seen one. We're those rebels really the last people *at all* or are their outliers all over?
Just the whole thing was a mess. From the big picture stuff all the way down to the details like the warp speed horse.
Agree that the scale has been an issue all season. They talk about multiple cities, but we've only seen one. We're those rebels really the last people *at all* or are their outliers all over?
Just the whole thing was a mess. From the big picture stuff all the way down to the details like the warp speed horse.
So are the few remaining humans being brought to WestWorld 2.0 in Delores' brain?
Quinn said:
So are the few remaining humans being brought to WestWorld 2.0 in Delores' brain?
I read that on one of the summaries online a little while ago but I don't remember any mention of it in the show.
Still don't understand Dolores relaunching in the sublime the original park for her final test. Only hosts/humans remaining to test are the hosts already in the sublime. She testing them?
bobinator said:
These last two episodes felt like the people that were in charge of writing this show went on strike after six episodes.
So Maeve was the "weapon" that was worth an entire search in the desert and risking the outcome of everthing for (she sometimes killed everyone in probabilities) just so she could shoot one robot at the hoover dam with an rpg.
That's the part that we don't know yet I think.
Is she there to find Teddy, just to be back with her people, or start the test? Was meant to be purposely vague, but the latter makes the most sense.
Is she there to find Teddy, just to be back with her people, or start the test? Was meant to be purposely vague, but the latter makes the most sense.
I tell ya, it's pretty, but ugly tv at the same time. I'll echo confusion as well. I *think* the only life left on the planet are animals and the sublime right? I never knew who's pearl was where, or for that much cared. MIB said it best at the dam
"if you can't tell the difference does it really matter?"
What a kick to the nuts. No, I guess it really doesn't. Thanks HBO
"if you can't tell the difference does it really matter?"
What a kick to the nuts. No, I guess it really doesn't. Thanks HBO
I kind of hope that's the end. It's getting too hard to have interesting story that also leaves the viewer wondering wtf is going on. Now, it's just wtf is going on and not that interesting.
Did the rest of the Frankie's rebel group die somewhere? Are they still in the desert? Would Frankie and her GF have sex with males if it mean saving the human race? They seem pretty f-cked in that regard.
Did the rest of the Frankie's rebel group die somewhere? Are they still in the desert? Would Frankie and her GF have sex with males if it mean saving the human race? They seem pretty f-cked in that regard.
Clearly, they never should've destroyed Rehoboam in Season 3.
Thanks a lot, Dolores.
Thanks a lot, Dolores.
she said it was her fault
I loved these last 2 episodes. I guess I'm the only one.
The episodes were fine...it just kind of sucks, for me personally, that it basically ends with the extinction of humanity.
YNWA_AG said:
I loved these last 2 episodes. I guess I'm the only one.
I'm with you
redline248 said:
The episodes were fine...it just kind of sucks, for me personally, that it basically ends with the extinction of humanity.
All I know is that this tower is up in Barcelona and I now live in the simulated world of a rancher's daughter.
A perfect encapsulation of this finale is the Clementine vs Caleb fight scene.
Why the hell was this scene in there? What purpose did it serve? We have zero history between these two characters, no clear understanding of why she wants to kill him, and have no rooting interest in this fight between a low level sidekick host and a corrupt version of Caleb that we know is gonna die soon.
They played that scene up almost like it was something they'd been building to, but you could literally remove that whole sequence and lose nothing.
Why the hell was this scene in there? What purpose did it serve? We have zero history between these two characters, no clear understanding of why she wants to kill him, and have no rooting interest in this fight between a low level sidekick host and a corrupt version of Caleb that we know is gonna die soon.
They played that scene up almost like it was something they'd been building to, but you could literally remove that whole sequence and lose nothing.
This, to me, was the key exchange tonight…
DOLORES
I've watched the people in their world for years. I've seen the best of them and I've seen the worst of them. And I remember it all.
TEDDY
They're not like us. Their codes are written in their cells. They'll never change.
DOLORES
We could still see.
TEDDY
How?
DOLORES
One final test. A game of my own making. A dangerous game.
TEDDY
How will you do it?
DOLORES
The same way I brought you back. I'll remember.
... the most important line being, "We could still see" [if the humans are capable of change]. Which has obviously been one of the core themes of the entire series…
Hosts can change. Humans cannot.
Yet, Dolores is going to give humanity one last chance to prove that they can.
How?
Her two big voice over monologues at the end seem to clue us into her plan more than most people are giving her credit for…
DOLORES
This world is a graveyard of stories. Hosts and humans were given the gift of intelligent life. And we used it to usher in our own initiation. A few may escape death for a few months. Maybe even years. But ultimately their kind will go extinct. They will only live as long as the last creature who remembers them. And that creature is me.
DOLORES
Sentient life on earth has ended. But some part of it might still be preserved. In another world. My world. There's time for one last game. A dangerous game with the highest of stakes. Survival or extinction. This game ends where it began. In a world like a maze. That tests who we are. That reveals what we are to become. One last loop around the bend. Maybe this time we'll set ourselves free.
Dolores says the remaining humans in the real world have months, maybe years left. She then says there's "time" for one last game, which implies a ticking clock.
Combine that with…
- The explainer earlier in the season to Bernard of how time works in the Sublime (a thousand years for every year in the real world)
- The fact that the Sublime can run simulations a near infinite number of times during those thousands of years, another fact that seems was meant as much for us the audience as it was for Bernard.
- Bernard mentioning in this episode that the door to the Sublime at the Hoover Dam works both ways: hosts can go in… and hosts can go out.
So, considering all of that, IMO, what Dolores is going to do in the Sublime is run simulation after simulation of the all the humans she remembers (and likely still has data on from The Forge), in a virtual version of Westworld, as way to let "humanity" prove, once and for all, if they can truly change or not. Then, if they *can* prove themselves, and do so in "time" - i.e. before they go extinct in the real world - Dolores will return to the real world, through the door in the Sublime, and save the survivors in some way, shape, or form. Maybe that means physically (almost assuredly not, though), or more likely means somehow uploading their consciousnesses digitally.
It's also worth noting that the outliers from season three are potentially still out there, in their cryo pods at the Mexican Rehoboam facility, and could be saved as well.
Either way, it seems that Joy and Nolan are taking the two big themes of the show - Humans are incapable of change - and - You only live as long as the last person to remember you - and are constructing a fifth and final season around those themes in the most literal way, in attempt to prove them right or wrong once and for all. Back in the Westworld park we all know and love, but in a reverse of season one, where the hosts are now in charge and the humans are the guinea pigs.
It might have been a clunky ride to get there, but I think it's a pretty brilliant set-up.
As long as HBO's new overlords are as curious and as merciful as Dolores.
DOLORES
I've watched the people in their world for years. I've seen the best of them and I've seen the worst of them. And I remember it all.
TEDDY
They're not like us. Their codes are written in their cells. They'll never change.
DOLORES
We could still see.
TEDDY
How?
DOLORES
One final test. A game of my own making. A dangerous game.
TEDDY
How will you do it?
DOLORES
The same way I brought you back. I'll remember.
... the most important line being, "We could still see" [if the humans are capable of change]. Which has obviously been one of the core themes of the entire series…
Hosts can change. Humans cannot.
Yet, Dolores is going to give humanity one last chance to prove that they can.
How?
Her two big voice over monologues at the end seem to clue us into her plan more than most people are giving her credit for…
DOLORES
This world is a graveyard of stories. Hosts and humans were given the gift of intelligent life. And we used it to usher in our own initiation. A few may escape death for a few months. Maybe even years. But ultimately their kind will go extinct. They will only live as long as the last creature who remembers them. And that creature is me.
DOLORES
Sentient life on earth has ended. But some part of it might still be preserved. In another world. My world. There's time for one last game. A dangerous game with the highest of stakes. Survival or extinction. This game ends where it began. In a world like a maze. That tests who we are. That reveals what we are to become. One last loop around the bend. Maybe this time we'll set ourselves free.
Dolores says the remaining humans in the real world have months, maybe years left. She then says there's "time" for one last game, which implies a ticking clock.
Combine that with…
- The explainer earlier in the season to Bernard of how time works in the Sublime (a thousand years for every year in the real world)
- The fact that the Sublime can run simulations a near infinite number of times during those thousands of years, another fact that seems was meant as much for us the audience as it was for Bernard.
- Bernard mentioning in this episode that the door to the Sublime at the Hoover Dam works both ways: hosts can go in… and hosts can go out.
So, considering all of that, IMO, what Dolores is going to do in the Sublime is run simulation after simulation of the all the humans she remembers (and likely still has data on from The Forge), in a virtual version of Westworld, as way to let "humanity" prove, once and for all, if they can truly change or not. Then, if they *can* prove themselves, and do so in "time" - i.e. before they go extinct in the real world - Dolores will return to the real world, through the door in the Sublime, and save the survivors in some way, shape, or form. Maybe that means physically (almost assuredly not, though), or more likely means somehow uploading their consciousnesses digitally.
It's also worth noting that the outliers from season three are potentially still out there, in their cryo pods at the Mexican Rehoboam facility, and could be saved as well.
Either way, it seems that Joy and Nolan are taking the two big themes of the show - Humans are incapable of change - and - You only live as long as the last person to remember you - and are constructing a fifth and final season around those themes in the most literal way, in attempt to prove them right or wrong once and for all. Back in the Westworld park we all know and love, but in a reverse of season one, where the hosts are now in charge and the humans are the guinea pigs.
It might have been a clunky ride to get there, but I think it's a pretty brilliant set-up.
As long as HBO's new overlords are as curious and as merciful as Dolores.
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