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Westworld Season 4

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bobinator
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In reply to TCTTS • 9:00a, 6/29/22
AG
I mean yeah, I know that. I shouldn't have said a virtual version of the dam, that's not really what I meant, but I meant that whatever is happening in that scene is involving the hosts seeing that tear in virtual (or as you more correctly pointed out, augmented, reality.)

The verbiage gets a little weird for this show when you're talking about artificial beings seeing artificial things in actual reality.

But I don't think that's a plan to kill humans. Might be entertaining for the hosts to see humans falling to their deaths over and over, but seems extremely inefficient.

My guess is that it's a way for hosts to come back from the valley beyond, especially since we saw Teddy at the end of the last episode.
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TCTTS
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2:08a, 6/30/22
AG
Alt Shift X isn't doing Westworld this season, but HaxDogma is back with weekly recaps/explainers, and this first one is pretty good. Though, fair warning for the more, shall we say, "sensitive" of the bunch, this guy's a dork and makes two or three out-of-left-field "woke" comments that are admittedly pretty ridiculous, even for me. But they're super quick/offhanded, and the video overall is definitely worth the watch.

In particular, I love his theory that Halores is basically aiming to establishing a *new* Westworld, but one for hosts to live away from humanity, in the American West (hence the Hoover Dam location), and not digitally in The Valley Beyond/The Sublime. If so, the idea of the title of the show eventually transitioning from the name of the world built by humans to enslave hosts, to the name of the world built by hosts to *free* hosts, in the American West, is super cool...

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dmart90
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9:13p, 7/3/22
AG
Episode 2 - game on!
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tk for tu juan
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9:41p, 7/3/22
Roaring 20's World, not as fun as the wild west
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oragator
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11:08p, 7/3/22
I think the show does itself a disservice in trying to continually bring some of these minor characters back, it just waters down the story and slows things down.
And this episode just didn't seem to have anything new, provocative or interesting for me, I mean, look - more hosts masquerading as people! So that the MIB in black can have more power! I actually found myself doing other things while watching it. With the caveat that the new Park was the one spoiler I knew of coming in.
Hope tonight wasn't indicative of the season., just doesn't feel terribly fresh, more a rehash so far. I am a broken record, but I'll tolerate originality that fails all day, just not paint by numbers or retelling the same stories again to make a paycheck.

Meantime, how is the MIB alive if he was killed at the end of season 3? I'm sure there's a simple explanation but it's escaping me.
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TCTTS
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In reply to oragator • 12:27a, 7/4/22
AG
oragator said:
I think the show does itself a disservice in trying to continually bring some of these minor characters back, it just waters down the story and slows things down.
And this episode just didn't seem to have anything new, provocative or interesting for me, I mean, look - more hosts masquerading as people! So that the MIB in black can have more power! I actually found myself doing other things while watching it. With the caveat that the new Park was the one spoiler I knew of coming in.
Hope tonight wasn't indicative of the season., just doesn't feel terribly fresh, more a rehash so far. I am a broken record, but I'll tolerate originality that fails all day, just not paint by numbers or retelling the same stories again to make a paycheck.

Ha, I feel almost the exact opposite...

- I love how they're able to use the same cast, but evolved and in somewhat different roles at times. Why is using the same cast here different than any other show using the same cast season after season? To me this is just a fun tweak on that. The way they "recycle" the cast, or whatever you want to call it, is something we've never seen before, and I love how committed the filmmakers are to the conceit.

- This episode was also the first time I've felt legit fear for the human race, which is something that's absolutely new, provocative, and interesting to me. Haroles is the true villain the show needed, and IMO, she's formidable and frightening as hell, especially with host William at her side, as her henchman. I love this whole development/dynamic.

- Further, the overall premise that's being revealed - Halores eradicating/enslaving the human race - is the very definition of fresh to me. She's really going for it in a way and on a scale that Dolores never did, especially once we learned that Dolores was trying to *free* the human race. And yes, we're seeing familiar Westworld tropes, but they're so obviously being used on purpose, to do new things, that I don't really understand the complaint. Taking a train to a world set in the roaring '20s, same as guests took a train to a world set the Wild West, is so fun to me. We're almost getting the old Westworld back, seeing as the filmmakers are shooting the roaring '20s at the exact same location as the Sweetwater set (literally the same street/buildings, just redressed). And honestly, gangsters and prohibition and all of that have just as much promise as the Wild West, in terms of fun and excitement. Granted, no way the show stays there as long, but I really like the idea.

I get that these first two episodes have a bit more of a deliberate pace, and I understand that not being everyone's thing. I'm also not the biggest fan of the Christine/Dolores side of things, and have enough patience for maybe one more episode set in that world, before they hopefully blow the lid off of it. But overall, for me, this season is going in ways I never expected, is endlessly inventive so far, and using our love of the show's past to pave a familiar, but very different future, in exciting fashion.

All of that, and we still don't know what Bernard and Stubbs are up to, and I can't wait to find out next week.
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TCTTS
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In reply to oragator • 12:34a, 7/4/22
AG
oragator said:

Meantime, how is the MIB alive if he was killed at the end of season 3? I'm sure there's a simple explanation but it's escaping me.

Host William slit real William's neck in the season three finale. But the catch is that they cut away after only a couple seconds. We saw real William reach for his neck and that was it. We didn't see him fall over and die or anything. His throat was slit, but he was still *alive* the last time we saw him. Also, the show obviously takes place over 30 years in the future *and* these are hosts we're talking about. So Halores/Host William likely stopped the bleeding with some kind of future tech/precision host skills. Halores then tells real William this episode that she cut off all his limbs. So literally all that's left of him is his head, attached to some kind of host body/life support system, hanging in that cryo structure.
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PatAg
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2:40a, 7/4/22
AG
Will wearing a black golf shirt is funny
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4:44a, 7/4/22
AG
Another funny bit was casting Jack Coleman as the Senator, seeing as the last time I remember him in anything was as Senator Lipton, Angela's (and Oscar's) Senator on The Office.

Oh, and I also enjoyed seeing Mike from Ed. One of my all-time favorite shows back in the day.
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Counterpoint
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5:52a, 7/4/22
AG
Loved this episode! Have we seen hosts with red "blood" prior to this season?

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oragator
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In reply to TCTTS • 10:40a, 7/4/22
Then why slash Williams neck at all if you're just going to magically fix it (with no scar that I saw)? Other than "cliffhanger"?
How did the senators hosts know what to wear and where did they get the identical clothes? They wouldn't have known what they were wearing til they got there. Did the senator and his wife have second pairs?
How can the even recreate people they don't have? They would miss scars, tattoos, birthmarks etc at a minimum. And good luck when they are talking to their kids or other people that know them. Why not just use the fly thing?
How did they replace the VP without knowing what he would be wearing when he came? Unless a naked VP just wandered across the course to put on the clothes? And forget about things like cologne, or knowing what was talked about on the ride in, or any other back story they won't know.
Why the big show of the chains in that weird contraception for William? Is he always there? How does he eat or pee? Or did they move him there? If so, why when they could have had a cell that did exactly what that over the top thing did?
The woman gets stabbed in the back, and magically she too is fine, so that she can give out the "clue" to Maeve. Assuming she was supposed to. And all of that opera stuff was built, hosts waiting, train etc - just for those 2?
Again, I can overlook things if the show is swinging, but so far they aren't even doing that. Outside of Delores the plot is completely linear (that we know of). It just feels lazier this year across the board so far. None of the stuff above would have happened the first few years, they were relatively meticulous.

So as I said, I hope it gets better.
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TCTTS
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In reply to oragator • 3:38p, 7/4/22
AG
oragator said:
Then why slash Williams neck at all if you're just going to magically fix it (with no scar that I saw)? Other than "cliffhanger"?

To stop him in his tracks. To wound him. To make him dependent on Halores to live. At the end of last season William was hell bent on eradicating all hosts and saving humanity. So, if anything, Haloes had to let him know who's boss. But the overall strategy seems pretty obvious to me.

How did the senators hosts know what to wear and where did they get the identical clothes? They wouldn't have known what they were wearing til they got there. Did the senator and his wife have second pairs?

How do you know they didn't know what they were wearing until they got there? Halores & co could have easily spied on/observed them before their arrival, and then sent some host out to buy the same clothes (or, who knows how fast same-day delivery is in the future). Mainly, it was for lavish effect, though. That, and it was fun! I just can't image having a problem with something so minor and inconsequential on a show like this.

How can the even recreate people they don't have? They would miss scars, tattoos, birthmarks etc at a minimum. And good luck when they are talking to their kids or other people that know them. Why not just use the fly thing?

The Senator literally said his wife was at Westworld when things went to hell. Which means he too was almost assuredly a guest there at some point. In other words, as has been the entire point of the show, Delos has EVERYTHING data-wise on its guests, including the Senator and his wife. So recreating them, down to their scars, tattoos, birthmarks, wasn't an issue.

How did they replace the VP without knowing what he would be wearing when he came? Unless a naked VP just wandered across the course to put on the clothes? And forget about things like cologne, or knowing what was talked about on the ride in, or any other back story they won't know.

They probably took the exact same suit off the dead VP and put it on the host VP. Maybe gave it a good dry clean before doing so, who knows. And again, seeing as William bankrolled the VP's entire campaign, I'd bet just about anything the VP was a guest at the park as well. Meaning they knew his behaviors, even certain cologne choices, etc.

Why the big show of the chains in that weird contraception for William? Is he always there? How does he eat or pee? Or did they move him there? If so, why when they could have had a cell that did exactly what that over the top thing did?

Again, Halores literally said she cut off all his limbs, to the point where I'm assuming the real William is *just* a head (and possibly a spine) at this point. She's slowly turning him into some kind of human/host hybrid, in some sick game to make him suffer a sick, ironic fate. And I love it. That, and it was a cryogenic chamber of some sort. Why would she need a whole cell for that? It makes way more sense to keep him in a pod instead, like every other movie/show that's featured cryogenically frozen humans. Going back to the irony thing, though, it's also symbolic. He's now strung up in the exact same way a host is, before/after being dipped in the white goo. Except his life isn't beginning, it's slowly ending. It's Halores f/cking with him to the max, both mentally and physically.

The woman gets stabbed in the back, and magically she too is fine, so that she can give out the "clue" to Maeve. Assuming she was supposed to.

I'm assuming the mind control flies/black goo gives its human victims a certain level of tolerance for pain. That didn't seem farfetched at all.

And all of that opera stuff was built, hosts waiting, train etc - just for those 2?

No. Those were all investors/guests. Did you not listen to William's speech? And they all presumably arrived the same way Maeve and Caleb did. Maybe their arrival times were purposely staggered so as to retain the effect of approaching the empty stage, going down the platform/hall, etc.

Again, I can overlook things if the show is swinging, but so far they aren't even doing that. Outside of Delores the plot is completely linear (that we know of). It just feels lazier this year across the board so far. None of the stuff above would have happened the first few years, they were relatively meticulous.

To me, they're being meticulous as hell, and none of it feels any lazier or coincidental than seasons past.

So as I said, I hope it gets better.
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TCTTS
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In reply to oragator • 3:39p, 7/4/22
AG
Really, these are some of the most nitpicky nitpicks I've seen, to the point where it's clear you either weren't paying attention, or are actively looking for reasons to dislike/quit the show. Either way, if you're not into it, that's fine. I get it. This stuff just seems like a huge stretch to be complaining about, given what the show has done and been for three seasons now.
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TCTTS
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3:54p, 7/4/22
AG
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PatAg
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4:19p, 7/4/22
AG
On the surface, fake Charlotte's storyline they are setting up is pretty unoriginal. However, this is season 4 and we know it will end up being more than what we see.
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oragator
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In reply to TCTTS • 6:09p, 7/4/22
Lol, you,didn't even really consider half of what I wrote. It's weird to me that you seem so reflexive sometimes, but I guess I admire the passion.
Let me reiterate: even if they cloned someone, they wouldn't have their memories. And even if they had somehow collected those at Westworld, this is 7 years later, there isn't a way for them to pass themselves off not knowing the previous 7 years. It's also 7 years of tattoos, scars etc, which aren't in the DNA they took regardless.
In order to get the new VP on the helicopter, the host would have needed to have been where the current one was, in order to pass. So William knew they were coming, when they were coming, was in the exact place he needed to be, had the host behind the bushes and lured the Vp right there to pull it off? Because that's the only feasible way that scene could have happened. None of it was shown, so I am supposed to assume all that was true? One simple five second scene of him taking a call saying "thanks for the info" could have legitimately set that up, but it was style over substance which was a recurring theme last night.

And I wasn't talking about the people in the opera house necessarily (other than the host on the train with them), I was talking about the whole set up. What was the purpose of building this massive secret infrastructure in the first place? Was it for them all along, or just "hey we might need it some day"?

The clothes weren't a huge thing for me just pointing it out, and the whole Willam in chains thing was just funny because it was silly. Part of a larger pattern, the show is losing what made it good. In season 1 and even 2 or 3 all those things would have been easily explainable based on exposition, not supposition or assumption.

And it was me that started this thread, so clearly I want to like it, heck I was the one defending it up til now. That I am the one now questioning it should tell you something.

But anyway, enjoy. I will watch for at least a few more, but don't want to be too big a hypocrite after last season's thread, so I won't come here to bash it.
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St Hedwig Aggie
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6:39p, 7/4/22
AG
Had no idea there'd be a season 4…stopped watching after 2.3 or so…it went weird and unfollowable really fast
Make Mental Asylums Great Again!
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In reply to oragator • 6:49p, 7/4/22
AG
oragator said:
Lol, you,didn't even really consider half of what I wrote. It's weird to me that you seem so reflexive sometimes, but I guess I admire the passion.

I clearly read and considered every word you wrote, as evidence of my point-by-point response.

Let me reiterate: even if they cloned someone, they wouldn't have their memories. And even if they had somehow collected those at Westworld, this is 7 years later, there isn't a way for them to pass themselves off not knowing the previous 7 years. It's also 7 years of tattoos, scars etc, which aren't in the DNA they took regardless.

Obviously, I know that memories can't be cloned. But how do you know that Halores & co haven't been observing and cataloging every movie of the Senator and his wife for years now, in order to be able to believably pass the host versions off as real? Halores obviously has a grand, meticulous plan that she's been plotting forever, and replacing the Senator and his wife whoever else, all willy nilly, likely wasn't part of that plan. She almost assuredly has been doing her research, and there are a million ways I can think of to gather the information and behaviors you're definitively claiming aren't possible for her to posses.

In order to get the new VP on the helicopter, the host would have needed to have been where the current one was, in order to pass. So William knew they were coming, when they were coming, was in the exact place he needed to be, had the host behind the bushes and lured the Vp right there to pull it off? Because that's the only feasible way that scene could have happened. None of it was shown, so I am supposed to assume all that was true? One simple five second scene of him taking a call saying "thanks for the info" could have legitimately set that up, but it was style over substance which was a recurring theme last night.

William was already planning on replacing the VP, seeing as he slyly hinted as much. Sure, he probably wasn't prepared to do it right then and there, on the golf course, but why did the replacement clone version need to be on the golf course at that exact moment? It could have been in a facility 20 minutes away, and for all anyone else knew, the meeting between the VP and William ran 20 minutes longer than we saw. In other words, what you're saying is not at all "the only feasible way that scene could have happened." Again, that didn't even cross my mind, and feels like your holding this show and any explanations I might come up with to some weirdly narrow standard or scenario you've created in your head.

And I wasn't talking about the people in the opera house necessarily (other than the host on the train with them), I was talking about the whole set up. What was the purpose of building this massive secret infrastructure in the first place? Was it for them all along, or just "hey we might need it some day"?

What "massive secret infrastructure" are you talking about? That was a fully functional opera house in what looked to be roughly the Pasadena area of Southern California, one that connected to a rail/tram line. Most play/opera houses like that have a retractable area of the stage, in order to be able to switch out sets and performers. So all Haloes & co did did was utilize that feature, and then construct a hallway structure to the nearby tram. If you watch the video above, the whole point was to mimic the hallway guests used to enter the part of the old Westworld, where they chose their costumes. And everyone else on the train was there as part of an investment group or "special guest" scenario to see the new, offshoot Westworld park that William (aka Halores) has constructed in the American West (likely in Nevada or Utah or somewhere relatively close to the Hoover Dam).

The clothes weren't a huge thing for me just pointing it out, and the whole Willam in chains thing was just funny because it was silly.

Why is it "silly"? Im legit asking, because it looked cool as hell to me. Everything from his body suit to the circular structure of the pod was of the same, slick sci-fi production design this show has utilized for three seasons now. And then, again, part of it was for effect. It's a bit of a theatrical/ironical gesture on Halores' part, which I think is fun.

Part of a larger pattern, the show is losing what made it good. In season 1 and even 2 or 3 all those things would have been easily explainable based on exposition, not supposition or assumption.

Where you see style over substance I see nearly the same show I've mostly enjoyed for over three seasons now. Again, if you don't think Westworld has been doing this exact stuff for years, I don't know what to tell you. So much of the show has been in service of the surprise, *over* exposition, where we're left to infer how they got from A to B. And I'm so glad it's that way, as nearly everything you're wanting out of these explanations would have either ground the show to halt, or would have been overkill, IMO.

And it was me that started this thread, so clearly I want to like it, heck I was the one defending it up til now. That I am the one now questioning it should tell you something.

But anyway, enjoy. I will watch for at least a few more, but don't want to be too big a hypocrite after last season's thread, so I won't come here to bash it.
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gggmann
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7:18p, 7/4/22
AG
Still trying to figure out how the last scene from season 2 fits with the season 3-4 narrative.
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PatAg
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9:40a, 7/5/22
AG
I'm interested to see the twist the Roaring 20's World is going to have, it must be something other than just the same setup as Westworld right?
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aTmAg
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9:52a, 7/5/22
AG
The dialog between Aaron Paul and what's her name was weird as hell. Who in the hell talks that way? No "holy sh** we are on a train!" or "WTF is nobody in this Opera?" or anything like that.
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ConroeAg
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10:19a, 7/5/22
It seems to me that when you're watching science fiction, either you suspend disbelief or you don't. In these movies/shows, crazy and impossible things happen, or the movie/show wouldn't exist at all. And we go with it, because that's what we expect from science fiction.

So it always puzzles me that so many people can willingly swallow the HUGE fictions while at the same time puzzling over the small ones. "How could THAT happen?!"

Well, sure…but how could ANY of it happen? Because it's fiction.

I get that some things still "don't make sense", even in the fictional context, but (to me) it's an odd stance to take in something you know is all fantasy anyway.

When something is ostensibly set completely in our known "real world", I could much better understand nit-picking things that seem "un-real".

Just my 2 cents.
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YNWA_AG
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10:50a, 7/5/22
AG
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/westworld-ed-harris-season-4-predicament-golf-scene-1235173606/

From an Ed Harris interview- sounds like season 5 is going to be the final season
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In reply to PatAg • 4:55p, 7/5/22
AG
PatAg said:
I'm interested to see the twist the Roaring 20's World is going to have, it must be something other than just the same setup as Westworld right?


My guess is that it's ground zero in some way for turning humans into slaves or whatever with the flies/black goo. Either way, yeah, there's definitely a nefarious purpose - or, at least, a far *more* nefarious purpose than the old Westworld / just a new park offshoot on the mainland. It's being run Halores/host William, after all.
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5:04p, 7/5/22
AG

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In reply to TCTTS • 10:11p, 7/5/22
AG
Oh, man. I just listened to this episode and they have a really good theory, one that makes so much sense...

Basically, it's that the Christine/Dolores timeline is in the future - as in, farther in the future than all the other timelines. And the clues are that...

1) Christine's phone is way more thin/advanced than the phones/tablets we're used to in the 2050s

... but then more importantly...

2) the fly/black goo human control tech (which the podcast hosts brilliantly nickname "WiFly") in the current/Maeve/Caleb timeline still feels a bit rudimentary, almost like it's still in beta (Halores even mentions that she wants to test it out on the senator's wife). And IF those are humans being controlled in the Christine timeline, the fly/black goo tech feels a lot more polished/advanced. Also, I've been wondering how the hell Halores either built a New York replica, or is running some kind of test and constructed that massive tower in/just outside the real New York, but if that timeline is even further in the future - and Haloes has essentially already WON and SUCCEEDED in taking over humanity, that makes so much more sense. And now New York, in this future timeline, is a park for HOSTS to visit, where humans are the ones under control/on loops.

In other words, the Halores/host William we've seen so far are in the timeline that takes place seven years after season three (aka the "current" timeline). But then, once the potential "twist" is revealed for the Christine/New York timeline, the Halores/host William we meet there will be years in the future, after Halores has basically taken over the world, or a least a portion of it. And the tower she's built is the final, advanced, "Golden Master Release" of the fly tech she was testing out years ago (aka seven years after season three).

But now, in the Christine/New York timeline, Teddy has been sent by someone (Bernard?) to free/wake up Christine/Dolores, to potentially lead a new revolution, same as season one... but this time on the side of the humans. Lisa Joy (one of the showrunners) is even on record as saying that Christine herself *is* actually human. So maybe Christine some kind of human clone of host Dolores that Halores created?

Either way, I'm really, really digging this basic idea...
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PatAg
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In reply to TCTTS • 10:44p, 7/5/22
AG
Also, even though I think this would be on the edge of being bad writing... the hosts figure out how to turn humans into a version of hosts,and then create their own Westworld filled with human-hosts for the hosts to abuse them in.
Dolores (future?) is IN a NewYorkWorld, the guys that we hear say "this city is awesome" are hosts, and Dolores job is to write stories for the NPCs (human hosts). One of them is Peter Myles, who has someone figured out what is happening.

Again, I hope its not that because it feels lazy but i want to put it in writing.


I wonder if the flies we see operate like some sort of mechanical parasite that provides a version of control, because the Senator's wife in the barn was behaving very strangely. Like more than someone who was tortured/tramautized.
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In reply to PatAg • 11:02p, 7/5/22
AG
PatAg said:
Also, even though I think this would be on the edge of being bad writing... the hosts figure out how to turn humans into a version of hosts,and then create their own Westworld filled with human-hosts for the hosts to abuse them in.
Dolores (future?) is IN a NewYorkWorld, the guys that we hear say "this city is awesome" are hosts, and Dolores job is to write stories for the NPCs (human hosts). One of them is Peter Myles, who has someone figured out what is happening.

Again, I hope its not that because it feels lazy but i want to put it in writing.


I wonder if the flies we see operate like some sort of mechanical parasite that provides a version of control, because the Senator's wife in the barn was behaving very strangely. Like more than someone who was tortured/tramautized.


If true, I'm sure there's more to it, but yeah, that's the basic gist of the theory. A theory I'm growing more and more confident in.

As for the flies, the cartel guy and the senator's wife both acted very similar to me. It's like they were both being controlled, but like they also had an *awareness* of being controlled, and could even speak "off script" at times, before going back "under." They also both essentially asked to be freed (aka they each wanted to die because of how horrible it was). In other words, again, it feels like the tech in that timeline is still rudimentary/in beta, but then in the future/New York timeline the tech has basically been perfected, and the tower is now controlling all the humans (at least in New York), save for whatever happened to the Peter Myers guy, who somehow "woke up."
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PatAg
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In reply to TCTTS • 11:05p, 7/5/22
AG
TCTTS said:
PatAg said:
Also, even though I think this would be on the edge of being bad writing... the hosts figure out how to turn humans into a version of hosts,and then create their own Westworld filled with human-hosts for the hosts to abuse them in.
Dolores (future?) is IN a NewYorkWorld, the guys that we hear say "this city is awesome" are hosts, and Dolores job is to write stories for the NPCs (human hosts). One of them is Peter Myles, who has someone figured out what is happening.

Again, I hope its not that because it feels lazy but i want to put it in writing.


I wonder if the flies we see operate like some sort of mechanical parasite that provides a version of control, because the Senator's wife in the barn was behaving very strangely. Like more than someone who was tortured/tramautized.


If true, I'm sure there's more to it, but yeah, that's the basic gist of the theory. A theory I'm growing more and more confident in.

As for the flies, the cartel guy and the senator's wife both acted very similar to me. It's like they were both being controlled, but like they also had an *awareness* of being controlled, and could even speak "off script" at times, before going back "under." They also both essentially asked to be freed (aka they each wanted to die because of how horrible it was). In other words, again it feels like the tech in that timeline is still rudimentary/in beta, but then in the New York timeline the tech has basically been perfected, and the tower is controlling all the humans now (at least in New York), save for whatever happens to the Peter Myers guy, who somehow "woke up."
I think the Charlotte in the future has legs, because it's also the most 'boring' storyline right now. Which of course means its about to come apart at the seams and get wild.
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In reply to PatAg • 11:12p, 7/5/22
AG
Exactly. It's kind of mundane right now, is a big question mark, and just doesn't "match" any of the other storylines, which are all connected so far. I'm guessing whatever Bernard and Stubbs are up to plays a key role as well, and maybe even somehow leads to the "reveal" that Christine/New York is (potentially) in the future.
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In reply to TCTTS • 11:39p, 7/5/22
AG
So does Dolores/Chrstine have one the surviving pearls from season 3, a new copy from Halores, or is she a completely different pearl and not Dolores?
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In reply to gggmann • 12:18a, 7/6/22
AG
gggmann said:
So does Dolores/Chrstine have one the surviving pearls from season 3, a new copy from Halores, or is she a completely different pearl and not Dolores?

That's the big question.

Joanna Robinson, who hosts the podcast I linked to above, has been insisting that showrunner Lisa Joy has said in interviews that Christine is an *actual* human being. But I just spent ten minutes looking for any quote to confirm that and all I could find was both Joy and Evan Rachel Wood referring to Christine as "human"/"very human," in a way that makes it sound like she has genuine thoughts/emotions, relatable problems, etc, NOT that Christine is an actual, living, breathing human being. Which is obviously a huge difference.

But let's say that Christine could be some kind of human clone of host Delores. Something along those lines. That's one option.

As I see it, the other three options are...

1) Christine is one of the four Dolores pearls Dolores Prime made and then snuck out of Westworld, but had her memory wiped, yet some kind of base code or faint "memories" remain. We know that Halores has in her possession one of the four Dolores pearls (in addition to the one in her own head), so I'd say this is probably the leading theory at this point.

2) Christine is a completely new pearl, a wholly new creation, etc, just in a Dolores host body for some reason.

3) Like you said, Christine is copy of Halores, who's had her memories wiped, which would be kind of weird and redundant, but is a possibility.

So, yeah... she's either a human clone, one of the four Dolores pearls but wiped clean, a brand new pearl in a Dolores host body, or a Halores copy. I guess there could be a fifth option, I just have no idea what it would be.
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2:41a, 7/6/22
AG
Just rewatched the second episode and there's another clue that Christine/New York is in the future…

At the senator's house, after the senator's wife has been stabbed, Halores tells her, "I need help researching a new experiment, and you are the perfect candidate." The keyword there being "new." Then, when Maeve and Caleb find the senator's wife in the barn, cutting open the horse, she's humming a song.

A few scenes later, Christine/Dolores is walking to work and encounters the crazy homeless guy, who says, "Do you hear it, the song with no sound? It's killing them, the noise. Do you hear it? The tower, it's coming from the tower. No one can hear its music but me. Me and the birds."

So, I'm betting that part of the fly/black goo tech that controls humans has something to do with some kind of frequency that sounds like a song/music to them. The senator's wife was humming it, while the homeless guy can somehow hear it too. Only the senator's wife was one of the very first test subjects, while everyone in New York could be years later, when the tech has finally been perfected, via the tower.

Either way, this episode was even better the second time. I caught so many more pertinent bits of dialogue, that hint at/explain so much, and it's just incredibly well-written overall. The golf scene, in particular, is so damn good.

Cannot wait for episode three.
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In reply to TCTTS • 5:10a, 7/6/22
AG
Brilliant observation from reddit...

The tower looks like a record needle.

And what does a record needle do (besides the obvious)? It projects data (from the record, which goes round and round like a loop) into a format people can process (sound). Which further explains the song/music the senator's wife/the homeless guy were hearing. That's also why they did the close-up in the opera house on the record needle, which Maeve lifts (foreshadowing?).

Also, just thinking out loud... the incredible season two episode, where they're testing the fidelity of the James Delos host, opens on a record player as the Stones' "Play With Fire" takes us through that great opening montage, which ends on the same record player as well. Combine that with the focus on the player-piano in the saloon in seasons one and two, along with all the great pop covers over the course of the show, and I'm loving the ever-evolving music/record player/player-piano symbolism (music being a pre-written "narrative" that's "performed," etc).
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In reply to TCTTS • 5:11a, 7/6/22
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