EX TEXASEX said:
So all aircraft have to have working transponders, but ADS is addtional/ extra info ? Just asking since I don't know squat about aviation.
Most US airspace requires ADS-B out, which is a type of transponder.
regional jet crash? (American Airlines) at Reagan (DCA)
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Last: 17 hrs ago by titan
Most US airspace requires ADS-B out, which is a type of transponder.
Crazy…just the perfect storm.
EX TEXASEX said:
So all aircraft have to have working transponders, but ADS is addtional/ extra info ? Just asking since I don't know squat about aviation.
Ads-B is required as well (if they have it) however, military maybe be exempt from ADS-B
ADS-B is a GPS position reporting where as, Transponder is an onboard transmitter that radar tracks.
"If you got to tell em who you are, you ain't"
That still leaves a pilots "distracted" scenario. Something taking place behind them.FireAg said:
Still bothered by the fact that there is quite a bit of time on the video for the helo to pick up the plane using VFR…
What seems clear is the jet didn't have time to see them coming in from starboard -- - the bit of time is all for the chopper to act.
Airline pilots who fly into DCA are used to seeing immense amount of heli traffic on approach, if they were not instructed to go around it's understandable why they operated with the assumption the traffic (whether they knew about it or not) would clear.
ATC was aware of both the heli and the jet so I have to believe all rules about transponders were followed.
ATC was aware of both the heli and the jet so I have to believe all rules about transponders were followed.
This makes sense. If you watching at .25x and zoom in a few milliseconds before :04 you can see a swath of light which could be the rotors hitting the hull, then the fireball about a half second later.FTAG 2000 said:
Far likelier that the light rising is the blades hitting and pulling into the RJ
titan said:That still leaves a pilots "distracted" scenario. Something taking place behind them.FireAg said:
Still bothered by the fact that there is quite a bit of time on the video for the helo to pick up the plane using VFR…
What seems clear is the jet didn't have time to see them coming in from starboard -- - the bit of time is all for the chopper to act.
Absolutely it does…
Will be interesting to see how this plays out…
Then again, if the helo did respond to ATC about the plane, then that would rule out them being distracted…
In that case, if it were an accident, then I'd say the theory that the helo pilots thought ATC was talking about the jet taking off and didn't realize one was landing, has more merit…
But man, as close as the plane was to the helo, for a good period of time, I'm really struggling with the left seat pilot of the helo not having a good view of the inbound jet…
TCAS has two components, TA (traffic advisory) and RA (reactive avoidance). The TA portion would still work,…the CRJ would have seen the dots on their scope change shape and color; RA, which would be aural tones and/or maneuvering guidance is disabled in the landing phase below a certain altitude (aircraft dependant)…because making an abrupt reaction at that altitude and configuration would either result in CFIT (flying into the ground) or a stall, which would be equally bad.FTAG 2000 said:EX TEXASEX said:
So all aircraft have to have working transponders, but ADS is addtional/ extra info ? Just asking since I don't know squat about aviation.
The traffic avoidance stuff (TCAS) doesn't work below 1400'.
Regional jet was on final and collision reported at 400'
I saw an eyewitness report on one the news sites that claimed the CRJ banked at the last second…likely an avoidance maneuver
So where are all the planes going now that were supposed to land at the DC airport? Do they just divert all traffic to other airports in the region?
Silvertaps said:
Crazy…just the perfect storm.
Helo is at 200 ft above the golf course (Hains Point) then increases altitude to 350 ft into the AA flight path???
yesfullback44 said:
So where are all the planes going now that were supposed to land at the DC airport? Do they just divert all traffic to other airports in the region?
ATC has all aircraft on radar. It's crazy they let them get so close
Because if you have ever piloted an aircraft at low altitude at night over 100,000 lights on the ground, on towers, on tall buildings, construction cranes etc. Some of those are flashing red, white and on other aircraft. And the helo pilots are seeing all of that and they won't see the actual body of the aircraft cause it's dark.
All they are going to see of that aircraft is one red flashing strobe, one green flashing strobe and a white flashing strobe all moving at 140 knots…. and those little moving lights are all mixed in with those other 100,000 lights.
Makes it real easy to miss seeing them.
All they are going to see of that aircraft is one red flashing strobe, one green flashing strobe and a white flashing strobe all moving at 140 knots…. and those little moving lights are all mixed in with those other 100,000 lights.
Makes it real easy to miss seeing them.
With all the helicopters flying right now around the area, I pray all the hobbyist/social media idiots with drones are smart/disciplined enough to stay TF away with their toys…last thing we need is another accident due to T-Drone Pickens trying to get exclusive footage for likes and clout.
bthotugigem05 said:
Airline pilots who fly into DCA are used to seeing immense amount of heli traffic on approach, if they were not instructed to go around it's understandable why they operated with the assumption the traffic (whether they knew about it or not) would clear.
ATC was aware of both the heli and the jet so I have to believe all rules about transponders were followed.
Agree. Helicopters cross all finals at all major airports. I'm curious if ATC issued traffic earlier and in a timely manner. That could be an issue. ATC has to issue instructions in a timely manner and ensure separation. Cant guess and give last minute instructions that pilots can't comply with.
"If you got to tell em who you are, you ain't"
Washington Dulles and Baltimore mostly.fullback44 said:
So where are all the planes going now that were supposed to land at the DC airport? Do they just divert all traffic to other airports in the region?
DCA will be closed until at least 5AM.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
It does start looking very odd. But remember the Francis Scott Key collision --- it looked intentional but was something more complicated (but also dumb).FireAg said:titan said:That still leaves a pilots "distracted" scenario. Something taking place behind them.FireAg said:
Still bothered by the fact that there is quite a bit of time on the video for the helo to pick up the plane using VFR…
What seems clear is the jet didn't have time to see them coming in from starboard -- - the bit of time is all for the chopper to act.
Absolutely it does…
Will be interesting to see how this plays out…
Then again, if the helo did respond to ATC about the plane, then that would rule out them being distracted…
In that case, if it were an accident, then I'd say the theory that the helo pilots thought ATC was talking about the jet taking off and didn't realize one was landing, has more merit…
But man, as close as the plane was to the helo, for a good period of time, I'm really struggling with the left seat pilot of the helo not having a good view of the inbound jet…
However, flip it around. If intentional, why an aircraft such as that? Did they think it had a Seal Team 6 aboard scenario (allusion is intentional) - -- why ram such?
Army is saying helo was on a training mission, according to Fox News…
That would be a data point that would lend credence to helo pilot error (presumably from a helo pilot who may not be as experienced as others)…
That would be a data point that would lend credence to helo pilot error (presumably from a helo pilot who may not be as experienced as others)…
I think you can even see it after the fire flare --- looks like something banking and now headed for the water. The copter probably simply evaporated as if packed with nitro with such a flimsy shell.AggieFlyboy said:TCAS has two components, TA (traffic advisory) and RA (reactive avoidance). The TA portion would still work,…the CRJ would have seen the dots on their scope change shape and color; RA, which would be aural tones and/or maneuvering guidance is disabled in the landing phase below a certain altitude (aircraft dependant)…because making an abrupt reaction at that altitude and configuration would either result in CFIT (flying into the ground) or a stall, which would be equally bad.FTAG 2000 said:EX TEXASEX said:
So all aircraft have to have working transponders, but ADS is addtional/ extra info ? Just asking since I don't know squat about aviation.
The traffic avoidance stuff (TCAS) doesn't work below 1400'.
Regional jet was on final and collision reported at 400'
I saw an eyewitness report on one the news sites that claimed the CRJ banked at the last second…likely an avoidance maneuver
Oh man, in the ATC recording 5342 reports visual for 1 and ATC (13:00 in recording) asks if they'll take runway 33 instead after reading back weather. Pause while 5342 (I assume) checks procedure for 33 since they are setup for 1. They come back at 13:25 and say yeah they can take runway 33. ****.
God that sucks.
archive.liveatc.net/kdca/KDCA1-Twr-Jan-30-2025-0130Z.mp3
God that sucks.
archive.liveatc.net/kdca/KDCA1-Twr-Jan-30-2025-0130Z.mp3
Still not sure why ATC had the UH60 in that spot as opposed to say:
I hope it was an accident, but the people killed in the buildings and on the ground in 911 we're just average people. Sometimes it's just terrorism or a nutjob who should've just killed themselves.. I don't think anyone thought they had anything to do with hurting Trump literally or figuratively.FTAG 2000 said:
Let's not get conspiratorial. Far likelier that the light rising is the blades hitting and pulling into the RJ than anything nefarious.
It's not like Trump would have been flying on an RJ.
That does not mean the pilots were incompetent though.
Per NBC 4 Washington: both crash sites located.
Wrecks are closer to Anacostia-Bolling side of the Potomac. CRJ is "split in 2" in about 7 feet of water. The helicopter is bobbing upside down, varying between submerged and not. Divers are in the water and searching.
Water temp is 35 degrees. Roughly 25 minutes too before anyone alive in the water would die from hypothermia. They aren't pulling anyone out of the river alive at this point.
Wrecks are closer to Anacostia-Bolling side of the Potomac. CRJ is "split in 2" in about 7 feet of water. The helicopter is bobbing upside down, varying between submerged and not. Divers are in the water and searching.
Water temp is 35 degrees. Roughly 25 minutes too before anyone alive in the water would die from hypothermia. They aren't pulling anyone out of the river alive at this point.
I'm wondering if the Helicopter Pilots saw the plane that was taking off in the video and mistaken that for the plane they were supposed to be passing behind. Tower instructed them to do this. That would pull their attention away from the actual jet coming in.(eyes looking wrong way) maybe see it at the very last second too late to do anything.
Again, I know nothing about aviation, but why in the hell would they be doing training near such a busy runway and at night? Seems like a monumentally bad idea.
BankerFarmer said:
I'm wondering if the Helicopter Pilots saw the plane that was taking off in the video and mistaken that for the plane they were supposed to be passing behind. Tower instructed them to do this. That would pull their attention away from the actual jet coming in.(eyes looking wrong way) maybe see it at the very last second too late to do anything.
I agree with this idea. Problem is the ATC should have seen them all on radar and advised chopper to wait for plane on left to pass. Not just say 'do you see a plane'.
That that much is left of the helo is surprising given the size of the fireball. If there is that much left they may yet be able to recover important clues from it.FTAG 2000 said:
Per NBC 4 Washington: both crash sites located.
Wrecks are closer to Anacostia-Bolling side of the Potomac. CRJ is "split in 2" in about 7 feet of water. The helicopter is bobbing upside down, varying between submerged and not. Divers are in the water and searching.
Water temp is 35 degrees. Roughly 25 minutes too before anyone alive in the water would die from hypothermia. They aren't pulling anyone out of the river alive at this point.
FWAppraiser said:
Again, I know nothing about aviation, but why in the hell would they be doing training near such a busy runway and at night? Seems like a monumentally bad idea.
It's bull**** cover for wherever they were really going
Gunny456 said:
That does not mean the pilots were incompetent though.
No, it doesn't…I agree…
If true, it's a data point…nothing more…
FTAG 2000 said:FWAppraiser said:
Again, I know nothing about aviation, but why in the hell would they be doing training near such a busy runway and at night? Seems like a monumentally bad idea.
It's bull**** cover for wherever they were really going
titan said:That that much is left of the helo is surprising given the size of the fireball. If there is that much left they may yet be able to recover important clues from it.FTAG 2000 said:
Per NBC 4 Washington: both crash sites located.
Wrecks are closer to Anacostia-Bolling side of the Potomac. CRJ is "split in 2" in about 7 feet of water. The helicopter is bobbing upside down, varying between submerged and not. Divers are in the water and searching.
Water temp is 35 degrees. Roughly 25 minutes too before anyone alive in the water would die from hypothermia. They aren't pulling anyone out of the river alive at this point.
Agreed. But unless they got hit broadside... at a low altitude having blades sheared off from above and then spiraling into the river, not hard to see how helicopter shell would be in one piece.
BankerFarmer said:
I'm wondering if the Helicopter Pilots saw the plane that was taking off in the video and mistaken that for the plane they were supposed to be passing behind. Tower instructed them to do this. That would pull their attention away from the actual jet coming in.(eyes looking wrong way) maybe see it at the very last second too late to do anything.
This is where I'm at as well. Perhaps they were putting on goggles or talking through avionics as part of a training flight. Any number of distractions could have led them away from looking to their right if they thought the traffic on their left was their target. Those last few seconds must have been terrifying. God rest their souls.
Airport cctv
Another angle of the collision, appears to be from a CCTV pic.twitter.com/pj2CpbY4NM
— TJ Cooney 🚀 (@TJ_Cooney) January 30, 2025
That's an unwarranted assumption. Depends what they were training for. Could have been a 5000 flight time pilot in command and they were doing some procedure training.
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