regional jet crash? (American Airlines) at Reagan (DCA)

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HowdyTAMU
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In reply to Rockdoc • 10:06p, 1/29/25
AG
Rockdoc said:
Would also like to add as a former pilot, albeit small private planes, looking downward at night in a highly congested urban area, it can be very hard to pick out aircraft marker lights. Especially a helicopter.
.

Agree with that. The question is how did the helo not follow the primary rule of flight… see and avoid?
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eric76
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10:06p, 1/29/25
AG
It is being reported that the Army said that there were three soldiers on board, no VIPs.
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El Gallo Blanco
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In reply to zgolfz85 • 10:07p, 1/29/25
zgolfz85 said:
Horn_in_Aggieland said:


That's the creepiest thing I've ever heard


We try to keep it as old school as possible with our toddler. It's not just that some of it is creepy, but so much of the new stuff is insanely annoying. Could be used to break terrorists. If it's two hours of Blippi or extreme waterboarding at an undisclosed black site, give me the latter.
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ETFan
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10:07p, 1/29/25
Put together the CRJ path on the approach plate for 33.

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Stat Monitor Repairman
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In reply to titan • 10:08p, 1/29/25
titan said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Horn_in_Aggieland said:


What are we looking at at :04 on the video immediately before the collision.

Play at .5x speed.
Looks like it speeded up! May have been deliberate.
Maybe they tried to make an evasive maneuver. Looks like another light shows up right before impact.
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titan
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10:09p, 1/29/25
S

Can a helicopter like that really accelerate suddenly faster like a fighter to ram?
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FireAg
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 10:09p, 1/29/25
AG
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
titan said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Horn_in_Aggieland said:


What are we looking at at :04 on the video immediately before the collision.

Play at .5x speed.
Looks like it speeded up! May have been deliberate.
Maybe they tried to make an evasive maneuver. Looks like another light shows up right before impact.

Yeah, the acceleration could be either last second avoidance attempt or it could be acceleration with intent to hit…

Not sure it tells us anything one way or the other…
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Rockdoc
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In reply to HowdyTAMU • 10:09p, 1/29/25
AG
HowdyTAMU said:
Rockdoc said:
Would also like to add as a former pilot, albeit small private planes, looking downward at night in a highly congested urban area, it can be very hard to pick out aircraft marker lights. Especially a helicopter.
.

Agree with that. The question is how did the helo not follow the primary rule of flight… see and avoid?

Yep. There's a lot here that doesn't make sense to me.
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Rapier108
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In reply to titan • 10:10p, 1/29/25
titan said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Horn_in_Aggieland said:


What are we looking at at :04 on the video immediately before the collision.

Play at .5x speed.
Looks like it speeded up! May have been deliberate.
Far more likely they saw the CRJ at the last second and tried to take evasive action.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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TxAG#2011
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In reply to fullback44 • 10:10p, 1/29/25
fullback44 said:
TxAG#2011 said:
Why on earth would any aircraft ever be allowed through the flight path of a major commercial airport relying on visuals...

Sickening stuff
Yeah this seems pretty crazy to let these Helos cross the paths of a major US city runway path.. seems like an accident waiting to happen


I bet some crap is going to unravel on this. It's not reality a civilian aircraft could do this.

Someone in the military is in some deep *****
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Fightin_Aggie
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In reply to Bird Poo • 10:10p, 1/29/25
AG
Bird Poo said:
Immediate guess is an ATC screwup.

How did the HC pilot not see the blinding lights coming right for him?
My thoughts. Watching the video I'm saying go around in my head to the hc
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EX TEXASEX
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In reply to titan • 10:10p, 1/29/25
titan said:
EX TEXASEX said:
Harry Stone said:
From the video it looks like that helicopter targeted the plane. Hope Im wrong. I hate this.
I wonder if you are right. The helicopter had their ADS turned off!!!
What? You mean it should have been shot down? (New rules)
No, I am not implying that at all. But it is strange that you would fly into a busy airport with the ADS turned off or not working. Can anybody with a lot more avaiation knowledge comment how unusual that is. Is it a bg deal or is it something that happens at times and they work around it ????
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 10:10p, 1/29/25
AG
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Horn_in_Aggieland said:


What are we looking at at :04 on the video immediately before the collision.

Play at .5x speed.
What am I looking at? Not following.
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whatthehey78
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In reply to FireAg • 10:11p, 1/29/25
AG
FireAg said:
CanyonAg77 said:
I'm saying 99.99999999% likely NOT intentional.

Pretty darn hard to run over a jet with a helicopter. Despite the video, I'm guessing the helo was on a crossing route and the jet came down on it as it descended for landing

How could they have not seen the lights from the plane, though? That's what I'm having trouble squaring in my head…

Blackhawks have a good amount of window visibility, and there is a good 20+ seconds on the video of the helo flying straight toward the plane's approach path…

Is it reasonable they would have simply not seen the lights from the airplane? And couple that with the ATC traffic warning them (allegedly) twice without (allegedly) any response?

I don't know these answers…hoping someone else can square it…
From the video Fox has shown repeatedly and unless my eyes are fooling me...it appears to me the helo's trajectory rises slightly as it nears the airliner. I'm assuming that because of air speed differences between them, the helo would have been in front of the airliner and it would have to climb in altitude to make contact. Just one opinion and hoping deliberate intent was not a factor. Prayers for all involved.
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fire09
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In reply to FireAg • 10:12p, 1/29/25
AG
There are probably 99999999 other lights reflecting, projecting and refracting around the plane from the city creating light pollution to blend in with a nav light. The landing lights are directional and unless you are head on +-30 degrees, they can look like any other light. Pilot could have been head down on instruments. Could have been looking at another aircraft. Wondering why ATC didn't cancel approach clearance for aa when helicopter didn't respond. Tcas would likely not have alerted on the 700, not sure about the equipment on the 60. Odds of it being intentional imo is zero looking at flight path. Can't see below or above in either aircraft, horrible accident.
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HowdyTAMU
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In reply to EX TEXASEX • 10:12p, 1/29/25
AG
EX TEXASEX said:
titan said:
EX TEXASEX said:
Harry Stone said:
From the video it looks like that helicopter targeted the plane. Hope Im wrong. I hate this.
I wonder if you are right. The helicopter had their ADS turned off!!!
What? You mean it should have been shot down? (New rules)
No, I am not implying that at all. But it is strange that you would fly into a busy airport with the ADS turned off or not working. Can anybody with a lot more avaiation knowledge comment how unusual that is. Is it a bg deal or is it something that happens at times and they work around it ????


All I'll say is that the military has its own set of rules.
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agAngeldad
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In reply to EX TEXASEX • 10:13p, 1/29/25
EX TEXASEX said:
titan said:
EX TEXASEX said:
Harry Stone said:
From the video it looks like that helicopter targeted the plane. Hope Im wrong. I hate this.
I wonder if you are right. The helicopter had their ADS turned off!!!
What? You mean it should have been shot down? (New rules)
No, I am not implying that at all. But it is strange that you would fly into a busy airport with the ADS turned off or not working. Can anybody with a lot more avaiation knowledge comment how unusual that is. Is it a bg deal or is it something that happens at times and they work around it ????


ADS-B. Might not be on but transponder in ClassB is required.
"If you got to tell em who you are, you ain't"
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titan
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In reply to aggiehawg • 10:13p, 1/29/25
S
aggiehawg said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Horn_in_Aggieland said:


What are we looking at at :04 on the video immediately before the collision.

Play at .5x speed.
What am I looking at? Not following.
Hawg, you are viewing from a car well distant, with the disaster happening a bit to your left upper center. Watch it with your eyes focused there with a corner glance at the counter as it nears the :04 mark. Do you see the chopper accelerate? (You are seeing it from about 120 degrees off the chopper's right tail)
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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In reply to aggiehawg • 10:13p, 1/29/25
aggiehawg said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Horn_in_Aggieland said:


What are we looking at at :04 on the video immediately before the collision.

Play at .5x speed.
What am I looking at? Not following.
Pull it up in the X native app, hit the gear icon and playback at .25x speed.

Best guess is we are looking at an evasive maneuver or perhaps we are seeing the impact but the explosion and fireball are visible a half second later.
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titan
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In reply to EX TEXASEX • 10:14p, 1/29/25
S
EX TEXASEX said:
titan said:
EX TEXASEX said:
Harry Stone said:
From the video it looks like that helicopter targeted the plane. Hope Im wrong. I hate this.
I wonder if you are right. The helicopter had their ADS turned off!!!
What? You mean it should have been shot down? (New rules)
No, I am not implying that at all. But it is strange that you would fly into a busy airport with the ADS turned off or not working. Can anybody with a lot more avaiation knowledge comment how unusual that is. Is it a bg deal or is it something that happens at times and they work around it ????
Don't the new rules for airspace over DC call for knocking down unresponsive aircraft that are "hiding" in that way?
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mAgnoliAg
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10:14p, 1/29/25
Decay
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10:15p, 1/29/25
AG
It's hard to tell anything from oblique angles. An evasive turn could look like an attempted collision.
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bthotugigem05
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10:16p, 1/29/25
AG
Evasive maneuvers need speed. Would not surprise me if the pilots of the heli realized their mistake at the last second and instinctively increased power as they attempted to evade, which would logically result in momentary lift.

As for how it could happen, I could easily see a scenario where the heli pilot confirmed they have the CRJ in sight (looking at the plane behind the one they hit) and wondering why ATC kept asking them if they had it in sight.
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fire09
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In reply to EX TEXASEX • 10:16p, 1/29/25
AG
Happens all the time in GA. Cant speak for military as I don't know, but would seem crazy to me that a military aircraft would be running dark in airspace that crowded.
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Gunny456
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In reply to titan • 10:16p, 1/29/25
AG
No
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Rapier108
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In reply to Decay • 10:17p, 1/29/25
Decay said:
It's hard to tell anything from oblique angles. An evasive turn could look like an attempted collision.
And on a video from a good distance away that is super zoomed in.

The video confirms nothing whatsoever, but some see what they want to be true.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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Get Off My Lawn
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10:17p, 1/29/25
This seems like a 'Randy Johnson's pitch kills a bird' incident or the Gallipoli bullets... The probability of interesting trajectories is low, but the probability of both objects reaching that intersection point at the same time are nearly zero… making it a freak event, albeit possible.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to titan • 10:17p, 1/29/25
AG
titan said:
aggiehawg said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Horn_in_Aggieland said:


What are we looking at at :04 on the video immediately before the collision.

Play at .5x speed.
What am I looking at? Not following.
Hawg, you are viewing from a car well distant, with the disaster happening a bit to your left upper center. Watch it with your eyes focused there with a corner glance at the counter as it nears the :04 mark. Do you see the chopper accelerate? (You are seeing it from about 120 degrees off the chopper's right tail)
Accelerated? Insteda of hold and hover for the helo? That should have been was the TraCom was to them.
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JB!98
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10:18p, 1/29/25
AG
Why would a rouge helo pilot have his anti collision lights on if he planned to do something nefarious?
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EX TEXASEX
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In reply to agAngeldad • 10:18p, 1/29/25
So all aircraft have to have working transponders, but ADS is addtional/ extra info ? Just asking since I don't know squat about aviation.
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FWAppraiser
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10:18p, 1/29/25
AG
Disclaimer: I know nothing about any of this. But why would the helicopter turn right if they were instructed to go behind the jet? And why did they increase their altitude and speed when approaching the jet?

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FireAg
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10:18p, 1/29/25
AG
Still bothered by the fact that there is quite a bit of time on the video for the helo to pick up the plane using VFR…
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FTAG 2000
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10:19p, 1/29/25
AG
Let's not get conspiratorial. Far likelier that the light rising is the blades hitting and pulling into the RJ than anything nefarious.

It's not like Trump would have been flying on an RJ.
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FTAG 2000
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In reply to EX TEXASEX • 10:20p, 1/29/25
AG
EX TEXASEX said:
So all aircraft have to have working transponders, but ADS is addtional/ extra info ? Just asking since I don't know squat about aviation.


The traffic avoidance stuff (TCAS) doesn't work below 1400'.

Regional jet was on final and collision reported at 400'
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BarnesCat11
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10:20p, 1/29/25
AG
Military aircraft are exempt from Mode S and ADS-B out transmitting. Many frequently don't for OPSEC reasons. I wouldn't read anything into them not pushing ADS-B. If they weren't squawking Mode C, that would be messed up.
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