regional jet crash? (American Airlines) at Reagan (DCA)

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Blackhorse83
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In reply to AviatorAg • 8:51p, 2/1/25
AG
AviatorAg said:
Jbob04 said:
Maybe she got put into her position due to her ties to Biden? Who knows but it's clear she wasn't qualified to be flying that helo that night.


She was qualified and signed off as a pilot in command by senior aviators. She was top 20% of all ROTC cadets nationwide. Degree from UNC Chapel Hill. Completed BOLC, IERW, and advanced airframe at Fort Rucker, AL. You quite literally have no idea what you are talking about.

Hope this helps.



And you my friend are overstating her qualifications. I read her bio and she's spent more time out of the cockpit than in it and just cutting her teeth on a night low level flight in restricted airspace is a bad idea. I am by no means saying she or the PIC are at fault. That remains to be seen but don't over inflate her abilities.
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YokelRidesAgain
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In reply to Jbob04 • 8:59p, 2/1/25
AG
Jbob04 said:
Maybe she got put into her position due to her ties to Biden? Who knows but it's clear she wasn't qualified to be flying that helo that night.
That's kind of like saying it's clear that Ayrton Senna and Dale Earnhardt weren't qualified to be driving race cars because they were involved in crashes that killed them.

It is extraordinary how effective the commercial aviation industry in the US has been in virtually eliminating fatal accidents, but flying is fundamentally an activity with limited margins for error.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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DannyDuberstein
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In reply to AviatorAg • 8:59p, 2/1/25
AG
AviatorAg said:
Jbob04 said:
Maybe she got put into her position due to her ties to Biden? Who knows but it's clear she wasn't qualified to be flying that helo that night.


She was qualified and signed off as a pilot in command by senior aviators. She was top 20% of all ROTC cadets nationwide. Degree from UNC Chapel Hill. Completed BOLC, IERW, and advanced airframe at Fort Rucker, AL. You quite literally have no idea what you are talking about.

Hope this helps.



And she flew her chopper into a passenger jet
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AviatorAg
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In reply to Blackhorse83 • 9:00p, 2/1/25
AG
Blackhorse83 said:
AviatorAg said:
Jbob04 said:
Maybe she got put into her position due to her ties to Biden? Who knows but it's clear she wasn't qualified to be flying that helo that night.


She was qualified and signed off as a pilot in command by senior aviators. She was top 20% of all ROTC cadets nationwide. Degree from UNC Chapel Hill. Completed BOLC, IERW, and advanced airframe at Fort Rucker, AL. You quite literally have no idea what you are talking about.

Hope this helps.



And you my friend are overstating her qualifications. I read her bio and she's spent more time out of the cockpit than in it and just cutting her teeth on a night low level flight in restricted airspace is a bad idea. I am by no means saying she or the PIC are at fault. That remains to be seen but don't over inflate her abilities.


You probably haven't read Army Regulation 95-1 then. It clearly outlines what a U.S. Army aviator must do in order to qualify as a rated aviator. She was qualified by letter of the law.







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GAC06
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In reply to DannyDuberstein • 9:00p, 2/1/25
AG
She and the pilot in command collided with a jet
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Outlaw0206
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In reply to Jbob04 • 9:01p, 2/1/25
AG
Jbob04 said:
Maybe she got put into her position due to her ties to Biden? Who knows but it's clear she wasn't qualified to be flying that helo that night.


Incredibly stupid comment. She couldn't even apply to be a social aide until she was in the D.C. area and as an O3. So no, Biden had nothing to do with her first duty assignment at Fort Belvoir as a UH-60 pilot. Stfu if you don't know what you are talking about.
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titan
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In reply to YokelRidesAgain • 9:01p, 2/1/25
S
YokelRidesAgain said:
Jbob04 said:
Maybe she got put into her position due to her ties to Biden? Who knows but it's clear she wasn't qualified to be flying that helo that night.
That's kind of like saying it's clear that Ayrton Senna and Dale Earnhardt weren't qualified to be driving race cars because they were involved in crashes that killed them.

It is extraordinary how effective the commercial aviation industry in the US has been in virtually eliminating fatal accidents, but flying is fundamentally an activity with limited margins for error.
Very well said. The revelation just confirms it was a very tragic and probably procedurally avoidable accident, but possibly not all the fault of any one person. She may or may not have had enough experience---have no idea what the rating system for night flying like that is. Its just sad.
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Bunk Moreland
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In reply to DannyDuberstein • 9:01p, 2/1/25
DannyDuberstein said:
AviatorAg said:
Jbob04 said:
Maybe she got put into her position due to her ties to Biden? Who knows but it's clear she wasn't qualified to be flying that helo that night.


She was qualified and signed off as a pilot in command by senior aviators. She was top 20% of all ROTC cadets nationwide. Degree from UNC Chapel Hill. Completed BOLC, IERW, and advanced airframe at Fort Rucker, AL. You quite literally have no idea what you are talking about.

Hope this helps.



And she flew her chopper into a passenger jet


Her alone huh?
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Blackhorse83
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In reply to AviatorAg • 9:03p, 2/1/25
AG
AviatorAg said:
Blackhorse83 said:
AviatorAg said:
Jbob04 said:
Maybe she got put into her position due to her ties to Biden? Who knows but it's clear she wasn't qualified to be flying that helo that night.


She was qualified and signed off as a pilot in command by senior aviators. She was top 20% of all ROTC cadets nationwide. Degree from UNC Chapel Hill. Completed BOLC, IERW, and advanced airframe at Fort Rucker, AL. You quite literally have no idea what you are talking about.

Hope this helps.



And you my friend are overstating her qualifications. I read her bio and she's spent more time out of the cockpit than in it and just cutting her teeth on a night low level flight in restricted airspace is a bad idea. I am by no means saying she or the PIC are at fault. That remains to be seen but don't over inflate her abilities.


You probably haven't read Army Regulation 95-1 then. It clearly outlines what a U.S. Army aviator must do in order to qualify as a rated aviator. She was qualified by letter of the law.








Being qualified and being mission capable are two different things and yes I've read that probably long before you were born.
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Outlaw0206
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In reply to Jbob04 • 9:04p, 2/1/25
AG
Jbob04 said:
500 hours doesn't seem like enough hours to be flying around dc at night with commercial airliners. I bet the victims families feel the same way.


Then call your damn congressman and tell them Army Aviation needs more money to train pilots. Because that's what it comes down to. We don't have endless budgets to go train non stop. I was a 400 hour aviator flying combat missions in Afghanistan. You learn by being out into stressful environments. She spent 3 years flying the same routes in DC. And guess what, there are brand new aviators doing the same thing with maybe 250 hours. We risk mitigate with crews. Once again, you have no idea what you are taking about.
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AviatorAg
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In reply to Blackhorse83 • 9:05p, 2/1/25
AG
Blackhorse83 said:
AviatorAg said:
Blackhorse83 said:
AviatorAg said:
Jbob04 said:
Maybe she got put into her position due to her ties to Biden? Who knows but it's clear she wasn't qualified to be flying that helo that night.


She was qualified and signed off as a pilot in command by senior aviators. She was top 20% of all ROTC cadets nationwide. Degree from UNC Chapel Hill. Completed BOLC, IERW, and advanced airframe at Fort Rucker, AL. You quite literally have no idea what you are talking about.

Hope this helps.



And you my friend are overstating her qualifications. I read her bio and she's spent more time out of the cockpit than in it and just cutting her teeth on a night low level flight in restricted airspace is a bad idea. I am by no means saying she or the PIC are at fault. That remains to be seen but don't over inflate her abilities.


You probably haven't read Army Regulation 95-1 then. It clearly outlines what a U.S. Army aviator must do in order to qualify as a rated aviator. She was qualified by letter of the law.








Being qualified and being mission capable are two different things and yes I've read that probably long before you were born.


Well AR 95-1 was first issued in March 1988 and I was alive then so..
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Jbob04
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In reply to CanyonAg77 • 9:07p, 2/1/25
AG
CanyonAg77 said:
Jbob04 said:
Maybe she got put into her position due to her ties to Biden? Who knows but it's clear she wasn't qualified to be flying that helo that night.

And so it begins
are you saying their is zero chance she got moved up the ladder based on who she is and her beliefs instead of qualifications?
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Bunk Moreland
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In reply to Jbob04 • 9:09p, 2/1/25
Jbob04 said:
CanyonAg77 said:
Jbob04 said:
Maybe she got put into her position due to her ties to Biden? Who knows but it's clear she wasn't qualified to be flying that helo that night.

And so it begins
are you saying their is zero chance she got moved up the ladder based on who she is and her beliefs instead of qualifications?


Why don't you deliver us your evidence that she did.

We're all waiting.
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GAC06
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In reply to Jbob04 • 9:09p, 2/1/25
AG
Jbob04 said:
500 hours doesn't seem like enough hours to be flying around dc at night with commercial airliners. I bet the victims families feel the same way.


I was flying close air support in a single seat aircraft with maybe 600 hours total time
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ReturnOfTheAg
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9:11p, 2/1/25
AG
This back and forth reads like former (or current) trained military pilots vs an armchair political activist
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Blackhorse83
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In reply to GAC06 • 9:13p, 2/1/25
AG
GAC06 said:
Jbob04 said:
500 hours doesn't seem like enough hours to be flying around dc at night with commercial airliners. I bet the victims families feel the same way.


I was flying close air support in a single seat aircraft with maybe 600 hours total time


I don't think it's her hours that are an issue. She is relatively a low hour aviator who just came out of a non-flying assignment and is working on getting her air sense back. It could be a contributing factor. I think it is very likely that crew coordination was an issue.
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Outlaw0206
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In reply to Blackhorse83 • 9:15p, 2/1/25
AG
Blackhorse83 said:
GAC06 said:
Jbob04 said:
500 hours doesn't seem like enough hours to be flying around dc at night with commercial airliners. I bet the victims families feel the same way.


I was flying close air support in a single seat aircraft with maybe 600 hours total time


I don't think it's her hours that are an issue. She is relatively a low hour aviator who just came out of a non-flying assignment and is working on getting her air sense back. It could be a contributing factor. I think it is very likely that crew coordination was an issue.


Blackhorse, what was the non flying assignment?
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GAC06
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In reply to Blackhorse83 • 9:16p, 2/1/25
AG
The investigation should dig into that, and we won't hear about it most likely, if it's anything like navy/marine mishap investigations. As for them training in that exact spot, that was the mission of the unit. It makes sense to train there if the aircrew were qualified
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Blackhorse83
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In reply to Outlaw0206 • 9:17p, 2/1/25
AG
Outlaw0206 said:
Blackhorse83 said:
GAC06 said:
Jbob04 said:
500 hours doesn't seem like enough hours to be flying around dc at night with commercial airliners. I bet the victims families feel the same way.


I was flying close air support in a single seat aircraft with maybe 600 hours total time


I don't think it's her hours that are an issue. She is relatively a low hour aviator who just came out of a non-flying assignment and is working on getting her air sense back. It could be a contributing factor. I think it is very likely that crew coordination was an issue.


Blackhorse, what was the non flying assignment?


I might have missed it but while working at the White House was she also in a flight billet. If she was I stand corrected.
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AviatorAg
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In reply to Jbob04 • 9:19p, 2/1/25
AG
Jbob04 said:
CanyonAg77 said:
Jbob04 said:
Maybe she got put into her position due to her ties to Biden? Who knows but it's clear she wasn't qualified to be flying that helo that night.

And so it begins
are you saying there is zero chance she got moved up the ladder based on who she is and her beliefs instead of qualifications?


How many current members of our military served under the Biden administration? Should they be trusted? Really makes you think…

This may come as a shock to many but a lot of service members wear their uniform regardless of who is in office because it's not their job to be political.
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Hey Nav
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In reply to Blackhorse83 • 9:20p, 2/1/25
AG
Yeah, it's an "additional duty" thing.
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Outlaw0206
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In reply to Blackhorse83 • 9:20p, 2/1/25
AG
Blackhorse83 said:
Outlaw0206 said:
Blackhorse83 said:
GAC06 said:
Jbob04 said:
500 hours doesn't seem like enough hours to be flying around dc at night with commercial airliners. I bet the victims families feel the same way.


I was flying close air support in a single seat aircraft with maybe 600 hours total time


I don't think it's her hours that are an issue. She is relatively a low hour aviator who just came out of a non-flying assignment and is working on getting her air sense back. It could be a contributing factor. I think it is very likely that crew coordination was an issue.


Blackhorse, what was the non flying assignment?


I might have missed it but while working at the White House was she also in a flight billet. If she was I stand corrected.


Yeah I'll correct you. A White House social aide is not an assignment. It's a volunteer role that you do outside of your job. So you work your normal job and then in your free time you pick up events to work at the White House. So yeah, she still had the same flying requirements as every other aviator in the Army.
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Blackhorse83
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In reply to GAC06 • 9:21p, 2/1/25
AG
GAC06 said:
Jbob04 said:
500 hours doesn't seem like enough hours to be flying around dc at night with commercial airliners. I bet the victims families feel the same way.


I was flying close air support in a single seat aircraft with maybe 600 hours total time


That's funny because I had less than 500 hours and was working CAS from the cockpit of a Kiowa…back in the day.
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Blackhorse83
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In reply to Outlaw0206 • 9:21p, 2/1/25
AG
Outlaw0206 said:
Blackhorse83 said:
Outlaw0206 said:
Blackhorse83 said:
GAC06 said:
Jbob04 said:
500 hours doesn't seem like enough hours to be flying around dc at night with commercial airliners. I bet the victims families feel the same way.


I was flying close air support in a single seat aircraft with maybe 600 hours total time


I don't think it's her hours that are an issue. She is relatively a low hour aviator who just came out of a non-flying assignment and is working on getting her air sense back. It could be a contributing factor. I think it is very likely that crew coordination was an issue.


Blackhorse, what was the non flying assignment?


I might have missed it but while working at the White House was she also in a flight billet. If she was I stand corrected.


Yeah I'll correct you. A White House social aide is not an assignment. It's a volunteer role that you do outside of your job. So you work your normal job and then in your free time you pick up events to work at the White House. So yeah, she still had the same flying requirements as every other aviator in the Army.

Gotcha. Well, there goes that theory.
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Outlaw0206
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In reply to Blackhorse83 • 9:25p, 2/1/25
AG
Little bit off topic - But I will say, I think that it's a disservice to young army aviators to go to DC/ Belvoir as their first assignment. They aren't getting the same tactical training that everyone other young Aviator is in a normal CAB. Unfortunately you need PLs in the unit and Army AV doesn't have the bandwidth right now to backfill with O3s/ O4s with experience. Same goes for warrant officers.
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aTmAg
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In reply to Bunk Moreland • 9:39p, 2/1/25
AG
Bunk Moreland said:
Jbob04 said:
CanyonAg77 said:
Jbob04 said:
Maybe she got put into her position due to her ties to Biden? Who knows but it's clear she wasn't qualified to be flying that helo that night.

And so it begins
are you saying their is zero chance she got moved up the ladder based on who she is and her beliefs instead of qualifications?


Why don't you deliver us your evidence that she did.

We're all waiting.
That's one thing that sucks about DEI. People have good reason to assume that the "protected classes" are less qualified. To pretend there is no evidence is ridiculous. The fact that DEI, by nature, lowers the bar is itself evidence. (Though not proof)
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Catag94
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9:42p, 2/1/25
AG
The Major served our country, probably worked really hard, volunteered, and sought to achieve. Perhaps her ambition is why she had 500 hrs flight time in addition to all her other accomplishments. She was an American hero to many (certainly her family) and in many regards.
Sure, she was at the controls of PAT25 and the craft was not where it should have been. She was, after all, on an apparent training mission with an Instructing pilot and another officer (crew cheif). All kinds of things could have contributed to the error in altitude, track, and visibility: Altimeter setting, ATC instructions, NVGs, who knows what else.
I'm not making excuses for her or the others in the crew. I'm just trying to point out that sometimes the best of us make mistakes and, while they don't always end in horrific tragedy, sometimes they do. Maybe, just maybe, these aren't bad people, and hate the wrong response (always).
Don't make her family lose respect for the Americans their daughter served.
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Blackhorse83
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In reply to Outlaw0206 • 9:42p, 2/1/25
AG
Outlaw0206 said:
Little bit off topic - But I will say, I think that it's a disservice to young army aviators to go to DC/ Belvoir as their first assignment. They aren't getting the same tactical training that everyone other young Aviator is in a normal CAB. Unfortunately you need PLs in the unit and Army AV doesn't have the bandwidth right now to backfill with O3s/ O4s with experience. Same goes for warrant officers.
I don't know the current state of Army Aviation but you make complete sense. The mission profile makes for a very busy cockpit with no margin for error. It's not like you can deviate your route and go land in a field. Thanks Outlaw.
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coconutED
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9:43p, 2/1/25
AG
Any deficiencies in pilot skill will come out when her training records are reviewed and her peers and supervisors interviewed. No sense throwing out baseless accusations; the information isn't going anywhere and it will come out.
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BadMoonRisin
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In reply to Coppell97 • 9:46p, 2/1/25
AG
So sad that she was so young.
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Hey Nav
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10:02p, 2/1/25
AG
Nothing but politics on this thread.

The politics of this subject (supposedly) thread is here.

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3525293
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stetson
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11:18p, 2/1/25
AG
1. The instructor pilot was the pilot in command and, thus, the one responsible for the aircraft.
2. Females do get preferential treatment in the military. I remember men getting bumped for the Apache qualification course while females were fast-tracked because the Army was told to get females into Apache cockpits. I don't think this has changed.
FJB
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BlackGold
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11:22p, 2/1/25
AG
Feels like there's just an eternity for the helicopter to make a move when you're watching the videos. It's just cruising… hope they release the flight recording of the helicopter.
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AggieFlyboy
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12:31a, 2/2/25
AG
People don't understand military aviation. At 300 hrs total flight time, I was flying combat missions in Afghanistan. At 700 hrs I was sitting left seat. Military flight training is a crucible; there is a reason the FAA allows airlines to hire a military pilot at 750 hrs vs the 1500 required for non-military
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ArmyAg2002
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In reply to Blackhorse83 • 5:21a, 2/2/25
AG
Blackhorse83 said:
AviatorAg said:
Blackhorse83 said:
AviatorAg said:
Jbob04 said:
Maybe she got put into her position due to her ties to Biden? Who knows but it's clear she wasn't qualified to be flying that helo that night.


She was qualified and signed off as a pilot in command by senior aviators. She was top 20% of all ROTC cadets nationwide. Degree from UNC Chapel Hill. Completed BOLC, IERW, and advanced airframe at Fort Rucker, AL. You quite literally have no idea what you are talking about.

Hope this helps.



And you my friend are overstating her qualifications. I read her bio and she's spent more time out of the cockpit than in it and just cutting her teeth on a night low level flight in restricted airspace is a bad idea. I am by no means saying she or the PIC are at fault. That remains to be seen but don't over inflate her abilities.


You probably haven't read Army Regulation 95-1 then. It clearly outlines what a U.S. Army aviator must do in order to qualify as a rated aviator. She was qualified by letter of the law.








Being qualified and being mission capable are two different things and yes I've read that probably long before you were born.


And how do you get mission capable?
You fly and you learn with a more experienced pilot. You were once RL3 too and your were progressed.

This is a tragic accident, but there was a crew in that aircraft, there is no indication that an emergency had occurred and it was single pilot. As an aviator you should know that.
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