regional jet crash? (American Airlines) at Reagan (DCA)

189,708 Views | 1557 Replies | Last: 11 hrs ago by titan
fc2112
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Whoever was flying this helicopter was a ****ing moron. How do you miss the fully lit up jet right in front of you?

Jbob04
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I honestly don't understand it. Stuff like this is why there are so many conspiracy theories with everything.
DannyDuberstein
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The longer they drag out special treatment, the worse it will be. Inexcusable to be this long already. It will feed the "she didn't belong there, must have gotten special treatment to cover her failures, and even now is getting special treatment" narrative
Rockdoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
How how how did they not see that landing light? Hard to believe 1 of the 3 didn't see it. They must have been terribly distracted.
Bunk Moreland
How long do you want to ignore this user?
fc2112 said:

Whoever was flying this helicopter was a ****ing moron. How do you miss the fully lit up jet right in front of you?



For starters, it wasn't right in front of them. You've had multiple pilots and helicopter pilots on tv news, online and on this thread discuss how these things can and do happen with relation to blind spots, what they're looking at, possible mistakes in what they were tracking, the city lights, etc.

You're looking at a 2d video and attempting to project 3d summations.

Now that doesn't mean the pilot wasn't a moron. But the plane was not 'right in front of them'
TexasAggie_02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
ArmyAg2002 said:

Whaler said:

Apparently one helicopter pilot had 1,000 hours and the other had 500 hours. That's not a ton of time. But more importantly, I wonder how much time they had in that type of aircraft (Blackhawk Helo) and in those conditions (night). A good chunk of their total time was very likely in fixed wing aircraft and probably not at night... just curious.

It seems pretty clear the helicopter shouldn't have been at that altitude, and in the jet's flight path on final approach. So, pretty sure it was pilot error in the helicopter. Inexperience in those conditions may have played a part.


Unless there is a new release the guy with 1000 hours was the crew chief. He has no access to the controls and is not one of the crew members flying the aircraft.

Army pilots get no fixed- wing training unless they transition to a fixed-wing unit. All of your flight training is on rotary-wing. You get around 70-80 hours in the UH-72 (TH-67 for us old guys) and then transition directly to your advanced aircraft. You'll get around 40 hours at Rucker in that aircraft before going to your first unit. If the 500 hour number is correct, it was all rotary- wing.

They were probably wearing NVGs. We train pilots to look under the NVGs to see incoming weather and to identify objects that you need to see in color. The NVGs restrict your field of vision to 40 degrees. NVG gets your acuity to about 20/25. Without a distance given the pilots would have been looking all over the area they were told to look in. Sometimes lights look different under NVG. Sometimes an aircraft light can look like a tower and a tower like an aircraft.

Yes, we have ADS-B. It is used in the states, especially in Class B airspace with heavy traffic.


Sounds like flying with a restricted field of view around a crowded airport in the nation's capital is not the wisest choice.
HoustonAg9999
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Also, I don't evasive maneuvers made by either the helicopter or Jet something doesn't add up Blackhawks have very advanced collision avoidance, avionics, sensors, on board radar. There is no way this was an accident.









FTAG 2000
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I have family that is an army aviation battalion commander. He said pilots come out of flight school with 250 hours of flying now. Relatively speaking, the pilot flying was inexperienced. If she was on NV then even more so given military training protocols for that.

He can't believe they were doing a training mission like this in close proximity to a major airport like this.
BBRex
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
DannyDuberstein said:

The longer they drag out special treatment, the worse it will be. Inexcusable to be this long already. It will feed the "she didn't belong there, must have gotten special treatment to cover her failures, and even now is getting special treatment" narrative


You have it backwards. The jump to "she didn't belong there, must have gotten special treatment to cover her failures, and even now is getting special treatment" is exactly why they are dragging it out. We don't even know if she was flying the aircraft when the collision happened, and we already have people blaming her for the crash, saying she was a DEI hire, and that women in general have no business flying. If people weren't idiots and so quick to judge an event they know little about, it would be different.
DannyDuberstein
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I don't have it backwards at all. Your logic is a massive miscalculation. And it absolutely is special treatment which will cast a skepticism on anything they put out.
fc2112
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Yeah, I don't have to go back to page 15 of anything. Wrong altitude and flew right into a commercial jet with its landing lights illuminated.

This pilot killed 67 people, herself included, due to her incompetence.
flown-the-coop
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I have not heard anything that contradicts the trainee was flying. That came out in the hours after.

It also jives with the purpose of the mission which was for her to train with the trainer as "co-pilot".

Is it possible it was not her... sure. Although the trainer holds the same responsibility if he was not correcting any error that was being made by the trainee. JMHO.
Ellis Wyatt
How long do you want to ignore this user?
And I have said none of those things. But the public should know.
Rockdoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The more effort they put in to suppress her name, the worse it's gonna look. She just needs to be identified along with the other crew members. She may be an excellent pilot. That's something that can come out down the road.
Kenneth_2003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
HoustonAg9999 said:

Also, I don't evasive maneuvers made by either the helicopter or Jet something doesn't add up Blackhawks have very advanced collision avoidance, avionics, sensors, on board radar. There is no way this was an accident.



I'm convinced you're just trolling at this point. AGAIN go back to about page 15.
GAC06
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Just flag and move on
TAMUallen
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Rockdoc said:

The more effort they put in to suppress her name, the worse it's gonna look. She just needs to be identified along with the other crew members. She may be an excellent pilot. That's something that can come out down the road.


Agreed, it's strange. Unless she has no family and her husband is covert CIA abroad, it doesn't seem clear as to why they would hide a person/name for so long
Bunk Moreland
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TAMUallen said:

Rockdoc said:

The more effort they put in to suppress her name, the worse it's gonna look. She just needs to be identified along with the other crew members. She may be an excellent pilot. That's something that can come out down the road.


Agreed, it's strange. Unless she has no family and her husband is covert CIA abroad, it doesn't seem clear as to why they would hide a person/name for so long


Her family requested they not release her name at this time. The others could have done the same if they wanted. How is that so difficult to understand?
AggieFlyboy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
HoustonAg9999 said:

Also, I don't evasive maneuvers made by either the helicopter or Jet something doesn't add up Blackhawks have very advanced collision avoidance, avionics, sensors, on board radar. There is no way this was an accident.












Blackhawks don't have much of that fancy stuff. They especially don't have air to air radar.

Most non-military hear something is "military grade" and they go "oh shiny". Military hear that and shudder
DannyDuberstein
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Because that just isn't how it has ever worked or should work. It's coming out regardless. It will now foolishly contribute to the specter of "we treated this person differently"
TAMUallen
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Bunk Moreland said:

TAMUallen said:

Rockdoc said:

The more effort they put in to suppress her name, the worse it's gonna look. She just needs to be identified along with the other crew members. She may be an excellent pilot. That's something that can come out down the road.


Agreed, it's strange. Unless she has no family and her husband is covert CIA abroad, it doesn't seem clear as to why they would hide a person/name for so long


Her family requested they not release her name at this time. The others could have done the same if they wanted. How is that so difficult to understand?


Have not heard that so you can chill instead of that way to frame it.

It's not difficult to understand and is rare since the media doesn't care anyway.
Tailgate88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
GAC06 said:

Just flag and move on


This
flown-the-coop
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Bunk Moreland said:

TAMUallen said:

Rockdoc said:

The more effort they put in to suppress her name, the worse it's gonna look. She just needs to be identified along with the other crew members. She may be an excellent pilot. That's something that can come out down the road.


Agreed, it's strange. Unless she has no family and her husband is covert CIA abroad, it doesn't seem clear as to why they would hide a person/name for so long


Her family requested they not release her name at this time. The others could have done the same if they wanted. How is that so difficult to understand?


Cue the old ladies "that's now any of this works" gif. She has no inherent right to privacy. It's a courtesy to notify next of kin but it's not a requirement. And you are involved in an accident killing 67 people… you don't get to remain anonymous.

Is your motion that in order to fully protect her she needs to be interred across the way in Arlington at the Tomb of the Unknown soldier? Cause that is basically what you are asking.
Ellis Wyatt
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Bunk Moreland said:

TAMUallen said:

Agreed, it's strange. Unless she has no family and her husband is covert CIA abroad, it doesn't seem clear as to why they would hide a person/name for so long


Her family requested they not release her name at this time. The others could have done the same if they wanted. How is that so difficult to understand?
I've lived around the military my entire life and I have never heard of such a thing. It is definitely not SOP.

I've had friends killed on the battlefield who were named in the paper.
Olag00
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The more it drags out the more the female becomes a colored person. Not saying I give a damn but we have been conditioned for this. A little more is trump has always been on the dei angle so is he foreshadowing this? If not for the past 4 years, this wouldn't even be a thought.
Yordaddy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Fox reporting a plane just crashed in northern Philly.
TAMUallen
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Ha don't mix me up on the quote with bunk lol
TAMUallen
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Jbob04
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Olag00 said:

The more it drags out the more the female becomes a colored person. Not saying I give a damn but we have been conditioned for this. A little more is trump has always been on the dei angle so is he foreshadowing this? If not for the past 4 years, this wouldn't even be a thought.

Yeah I think it's safe to say the pilot isn't Caucasian or it would have been released already.
AggieFlyboy
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I'll explain again for people to understand relative motion between two moving objects.

If two airplanes are moving towards each other, they will move in the windscreen. If you are looking at a plane coming towards you from the left, - movement from left towards the right indicates that you are lagging them and will pass behind them. If they are moving right to left, it means you have lead pursuit and will pass in front of them.

If you are on a converging flight path they will stay stationary and get bigger, which what happened last night. Here's the kicker, at night you don't see the airplane getting bigger because you can only see the lights, and at night lights can cause some interesting Visual illusions. Also, you have to pick up the light from amongst all of the other lights that are on the ground. And at that altitude, you would definitely mix in with lights on the horizon. On top of that your night vision can cause stationary objects to vanish. Try it sometime, go outside and stare at a distant light, it can disappear in the center of your vision. That's how you can fail to see an airplane.

Now before the CRJ made their final turn, they would have have been moving from right to left in the windscreen, possibly making the helo think they were going to pass behind because the CRJ was approaching from their right. Once the turn was made, they became stationary and were now on a convergence, but the landing light was aimed at the runway, not the helicopter coming from the right and they may have lost the aircraft then.



Tailgate88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
God Gawd almighty this thread is off the rails. Ima gonna call it a night.
Ellis Wyatt
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Fixed it.
TAMUallen
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Tailgate88 said:

God Gawd almighty this thread is off the rails. Ima gonna call it a night.


Sir, this is a Wendy's side thread.

Oh wait this isn't the side thread. Yeah, this one is getting scrubbed
Bunk Moreland
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Ellis Wyatt said:

Bunk Moreland said:

TAMUallen said:

Agreed, it's strange. Unless she has no family and her husband is covert CIA abroad, it doesn't seem clear as to why they would hide a person/name for so long


Her family requested they not release her name at this time. The others could have done the same if they wanted. How is that so difficult to understand?
I've lived around the military my entire life and I have never heard of such a thing. It is definitely not SOP.

I've had friends killed on the battlefield who were named in the paper.


You are fundamentally misunderstanding the situation. It's an active investigation and bodies are still in the water.

You make it sound like any soldier ever killed immediately had their information released no matter what. That is asinine.

But I did notice how you avoided my original question to you that why does it matter if we don't find out the name for another week or 2 weeks or 6 weeks. I'd love to know why you think the public has a right to know the name at this very moment.
Ellis Wyatt
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Because that's not how this ever works.
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.