So we have two Article II immigration courts say this guy is:
1. An El Salvadoran national
2. In the US illegally
3. And MS-13 member (now a designated terrorist org.)
4. Issued Deportation Orders in 2019

We now have Article III courts say:
1. Same person is a "resident" of the US (not sure what documents that status)
2. He is to be returned to the US (in contradiction to the Article II courts deportation order) from El Salvador.
3. Wish washy as to weather he is a MS-13 gang member (discounting the Article II court findings)
4. And this "resident" has been denied due process (ignoring existence of immigration court proceedings).

He's not even in detention?

Abrego Garcias APPARENT non-custodial status would be consistent with my view that he was not covered by the agreement.

It is not de facto illegal in El Salvador to be a member of MS-13. He’s been in the US since 2012 so he would not have broken any Salvador laws for 13 years…

— Shipwreckedcrew (@shipwreckedcrew) April 18, 2025

LOL @ these judges.

As I’ve said, and I think I persuaded you, I don’t think he’s covered by the agreement.

My comment only is that I think any order directing the Admin to not pay i- based on the assumption he is - is directing Trump to breach the agreement. https://t.co/gSJ7BPY75p

— Shipwreckedcrew (@shipwreckedcrew) April 18, 2025

Anyone want to guess why he's always wearing a hat in these photos? It couldn't be that his bald head is covered in tats….could it?

I've seen it suggested his finger tats might have also been altered

Infection_Ag11 said:

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This is a very stupid hill to die on. Admit the mistake, bring him back, check some boxes and then ship him out again. Same exact result with none of this nonsense attached.

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We have no authority to "bring him back" unless we claim itbis sn extradition treaty matter. He is a citizen there.

What would Scalia think?

Scalia would 100 percent focus on the clear violations between Article II and III courts, imho.

Will, thank you for running all of this down. Great work.

One point worth mentioning is the district judge and appellate court judges KNOW BETTER. The MS-13 issue was resolved in immigration court against Garcia and affirmed by the appeals board.

The district judge and…

— Daniel R. Street (@DanielRStreet1) April 17, 2025

That's a reply within Will Chamberlain's longer thread that is worth noting/reading; it wasn't 'just a chicago bulls' hat as we now know. Judge Thacker/the 4th circuit appeals 3 are just woefully ignorant of the evidence, apparently, and dismissive of the Article II court's findings.

Judge Thacker's second footnote points to the Addendum to the Motion for Stay at pages 10-11.

This is the complaint written by Mr. Sandoval-Moshenberg. And now things become clear: the reason that both Judge Xinis and Judge Thacker underplayed the MS-13 evidence is because Mr.… pic.twitter.com/THKDL2YyL0

— Will Chamberlain (@willchamberlain) April 17, 2025

Scalia would humiliate them over this, as I expect Thomas will, but with less rhetorical flourish.

AtticusMatlock said:

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The behavior of the executive branch here is just absurd to me. It's counterproductive. A judge had ruled he could not go back to El Salvador. They mistakenly sent him back to El Salvador. Why could they have not just quickly brought him back, put him before another immigration judge in an expedited hearing and have them reverse the protective order? Keep him in custody here then get him out.

It does seem to me the reason they don't want him to come back is because they don't want him giving interviews about the conditions at that prison. Maybe he really has already been killed. Who knows.

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lolololol

Hullabaloonatic said:

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Slicer97 said:

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Hullabaloonatic said:

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You know how I know every MAGA person defending Garcia's deportation is full of ***** Because Trump has said he wants to deport 'homegrown' criminals and no one here cares. The President was caught on live TV saying he wants to disappear US CITIZENS. So of course no one here cares about an El Salvadorian immigrant...they don't even care about their own US compatriots.

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Why didn't I hear you crying like this about the J6 prisoners?

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What are you talking about? Were Jan6ers deported to a gulag?

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No. And neither was this guy.

Logos Stick said:

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Has this been posted already?

This is from ship:


"Judge Xinis did not follow the instructions. SCOTUS told her to explain what she meant by "effectuate".

...

This is going back to SCOTUS ASAP and I don't expect that they will be too happy that the lower court judges seem to not be able to find their own limits on what it is they might be able to accomplish"




She simply deleted the word effectuate from her new order.

Lololol

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I mentioned that the other day. She has been defying the SCOTUS order which told her to clarify what "effectuate" meant. She has never done that.

And the left wants to say that TRUMP is ignoring the judges...

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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AtticusMatlock said:

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The behavior of the executive branch here is just absurd to me. It's counterproductive. A judge had ruled he could not go back to El Salvador. They mistakenly sent him back to El Salvador. Why could they have not just quickly brought him back, put him before another immigration judge in an expedited hearing and have them reverse the protective order? Keep him in custody here then get him out.

It does seem to me the reason they don't want him to come back is because they don't want him giving interviews about the conditions at that prison. Maybe he really has already been killed. Who knows.

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It's because if they do that, they cede Article II powers to these judges.

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No they don't, this isn't a court saying the President cannot deport a random illegal immigrant that was caught. That would be an infringement of his article II powers. This was the executive branch defying a valid withholding of removal order, albeit mistakingly. And it's a stupid fight because he is guaranteed to be deported again if they go through the normal legal process to overturn that order because the evidence against Abrego is overwhelming.

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Sigh...

Yes they do.

They would be accepting that a district judge can order the POTUS to perform a specific act of foreign policy.

Yes they ****ed up. But, that still doesn't mean the judge gets to direct the foreign policy actions of the executive branch...

If Trump gave in on this, it would be cited as precedent in numerous other cases...

I agree he would be immediately deported again were he to step foot on US soil. But, that's not the point anymore.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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AtticusMatlock said:

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The behavior of the executive branch here is just absurd to me. It's counterproductive. A judge had ruled he could not go back to El Salvador. They mistakenly sent him back to El Salvador. Why could they have not just quickly brought him back, put him before another immigration judge in an expedited hearing and have them reverse the protective order? Keep him in custody here then get him out.

It does seem to me the reason they don't want him to come back is because they don't want him giving interviews about the conditions at that prison. Maybe he really has already been killed. Who knows.

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It's because if they do that, they cede Article II powers to these judges.

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No they don't, this isn't a court saying the President cannot deport a random illegal immigrant that was caught. That would be an infringement of his article II powers. This was the executive branch defying a valid withholding of removal order, albeit mistakingly. And it's a stupid fight because he is guaranteed to be deported again if they go through the normal legal process to overturn that order because the evidence against Abrego is overwhelming.

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Incorrect. MS13 has been declared a terrorist organization. Abrego is a member. The withholding order is thus irrelevant.

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The law requires a hearing for the government to show he is in fact a gang member (or was) with such an order in place. There's also debate over whether this is applicable when a group is retroactively deemed a terrorist organization. But regardless you can't just declare something like Michael Scott and expect it to override a valid court order.

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They had a hearing in 2019. He was determined to be a member of MS-13. He appealed and lost his appeal.

Are you claiming he has quit the gang?

So the effing guy is not even in prison in El Salvador?????

All of this histrionic crying and wailing because the guy was removed to a tropical paradise to enjoy unlimited freedom?

God the left is ridiculous.

Again, this isn't a judge usurping executive authority. This is a judge saying that the executive branch is bound by federal immigration law. If you want to take a stand against the position of the entire USSC including every conservative justice then go for it. I won't joining you.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Again, this isn't a judge usurping executive authority. This is a judge saying that the executive branch is bound by federal immigration law. If you want to take a stand against the position of the entire USSC including every conservative justice then go for it. I won't joining you.

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He had a hearing in 2019

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Again, this isn't a judge usurping executive authority. This is a judge saying that the executive branch is bound by federal immigration law. If you want to take a stand against the position of the entire USSC including every conservative justice then go for it. I won't joining you.

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And where in federal immigration law does it state the executive branch has to go into another country to retrieve someone that was deported (however wrongly)?

I'd really like to see that statute.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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AtticusMatlock said:

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The behavior of the executive branch here is just absurd to me. It's counterproductive. A judge had ruled he could not go back to El Salvador. They mistakenly sent him back to El Salvador. Why could they have not just quickly brought him back, put him before another immigration judge in an expedited hearing and have them reverse the protective order? Keep him in custody here then get him out.

It does seem to me the reason they don't want him to come back is because they don't want him giving interviews about the conditions at that prison. Maybe he really has already been killed. Who knows.

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It's because if they do that, they cede Article II powers to these judges.

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No they don't, this isn't a court saying the President cannot deport a random illegal immigrant that was caught. That would be an infringement of his article II powers. This was the executive branch defying a valid withholding of removal order, albeit mistakingly. And it's a stupid fight because he is guaranteed to be deported again if they go through the normal legal process to overturn that order because the evidence against Abrego is overwhelming.

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Incorrect. MS13 has been declared a terrorist organization. Abrego is a member. The withholding order is thus irrelevant.

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The law requires a hearing for the government to show he is in fact a gang member (or was) with such an order in place.

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Your assertion makes no sense. Had he been deported anywhere but El Salvador, we wouldn't be here. That was part of the court withholding order. That means he had already been determined to be a member of MS13 and thus he was under threat from rival gangs. That restriction is based on that determination.

Jennifer fancies herself a bad-boy.

The guy needed to be kicked out of the country, period. Now, seeing as how Trump's own people said they made a mistake in kicking him out, for whatever reason, doesn't take away from the fact that this country doesn't need people like him. The fact is, being in a gang, or just "affiliating" with a gang, is pretty much the same thing.

If the guy never sets foot in this country, I'm good with that. If Trump has to bring him back to go through more proper channels to then kick him out again, I'm perfectly fine with that as well. Regardless, we don't need people like him in this country.

Rant over. Carry on.

There is no question that he is an MS-13 member. Dont embarrass yourself further.

No Spin Ag said:

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The guy needed to be kicked out of the country, period. Now, seeing as how Trump's own people said they made a mistake in kicking him out, for whatever reason, doesn't take away from the fact that this country doesn't need people like him. The fact is, being in a gang, or just "affiliating" with a gang, is pretty much the same thing.

If the guy never sets foot in this country, I'm good with that. If Trump has to bring him back to go through more proper channels to then kick him out again, I'm perfectly fine with that as well. Regardless, we don't need people like him in this country.

Rant over. Carry on.

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Also, he already had an order for Deportation

samurai_science said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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The guy needed to be kicked out of the country, period. Now, seeing as how Trump's own people said they made a mistake in kicking him out, for whatever reason, doesn't take away from the fact that this country doesn't need people like him. The fact is, being in a gang, or just "affiliating" with a gang, is pretty much the same thing.

If the guy never sets foot in this country, I'm good with that. If Trump has to bring him back to go through more proper channels to then kick him out again, I'm perfectly fine with that as well. Regardless, we don't need people like him in this country.

Rant over. Carry on.

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Also, he already had an order for Deportation

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Well, then, even more reason for this to be a non-issue.

Thanks for the info.

The administration has clarified their position and removed the attorney that said this was "an administrative error" as they do not believe they have deported Garcia illegally(because of the withholding).

The current government stance as outlined by Stephen Miller is(paraphrasing)...

Garcia is an illegal alien wife beating MS13 gang terrorist that after MS13 being designated as a terrorist organization was deported as a terrorist and previous withholding was as such null and void.

I am guessing the question that needs to be answered ultimately by the SCOTUS is whether or not being a terrorist nullifies a withholding order? Maybe that is why the government is pushing so hard here? Wanting a concrete answer to the above question? If not, I personally think they are being too obtuse. Just do what needs to be done and get this over and done with.

Send an immigration judge to the embassy, have a hearing, then either give back to El Salvador or ship the terrorist off to some other country or GITMO.

Why the left is martyring a terrorist, I don't understand though.

People are acting like Trump ordered a drone strike on him….with no due process.

Interesting.

INSIDE CECOT (full video):
I entered into El Salvadors mega prison know as The Terrorism Confinement Center (CECOT), it is home to some of the most dangerous gangs and gangsters in the world. El Salvador was once controlled by these gangs and known as the most dangerous country… pic.twitter.com/0dK1HDDMHA

— Nick shirley (@nickshirleyy) July 27, 2024

samurai_science said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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Again, this isn't a judge usurping executive authority. This is a judge saying that the executive branch is bound by federal immigration law. If you want to take a stand against the position of the entire USSC including every conservative justice then go for it. I won't joining you.

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He had a hearing in 2019

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Again, I'm not a lawyer. I'm going to assume that when this many lawyers/judges from both sides of the political spectrum including ones appointed by Trump are saying the same thing they are aware of the specifics and taking them into account.

Jack Boyette said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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Again, this isn't a judge usurping executive authority. This is a judge saying that the executive branch is bound by federal immigration law. If you want to take a stand against the position of the entire USSC including every conservative justice then go for it. I won't joining you.

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Why don't you leave this to the lawyers, bud?

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I am, that's the point. There are literally judges who were appointed by and play golf with Trump tweeting that he is in the wrong here. It's the most unanimous consensus I've ever seen on a topic this politically charged.

will25u said:

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Why the left is martyring a terrorist, I don't understand though.

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They're a repugnant group of people. Not hard to understand at all.

Well, you're assuming incorrectly. This is obstruction by the judges. They don't want us to be able to deport criminal aliens. The guy never had a right to be here. He is an MS-13 member. His stated reason to fear going back to El Sal is no longer an issue. He's in his country of citizenship. **** him.

Quote:

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Again, I'm not a lawyer.

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We know. And Fauci/Daszak et al. had covid-19 created in a lab, oh by the way.

The appellate ruling is a clear indication the judges involved (3 of them) are ignorant as to the evidence he is a member of MS-13, and their sneering dismissal of the properly adjudicated (and appealed/confirmed) Article II court findings, and lack of awareness of this evidence is not a legally/logically tough thing to see.

Today, AG Bondi released the underlying Gang Field Interview Sheet (GFIS) related to Abrego Garcia's detainment in 2019, along with other documents.

In the GFIS, the police officer attests that when Abrego-Garcia was arrested, he was hanging out with multiple confirmed MS-13… pic.twitter.com/vJ336JvJmP

— Will Chamberlain (@willchamberlain) April 17, 2025