Political fallout and arguments regarding the US-Israeli action against Iran 022824

172,570 Views | 2118 Replies | Last: 6 min ago by Ag with kids
ChemAg15
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
What actual legislation has this congress passed? It doesnt matter if the reps lose the legislature. They dont do anything with it when they have it.
YouBet
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
ChemAg15 said:

What actual legislation has this congress passed? It doesnt matter if the reps lose the legislature. They dont do anything with it when they have it.


OBBB. Will be the last thing they do.
FobTies
How long do you want to ignore this user?
ChemAg15 said:

What actual legislation has this congress passed? It doesnt matter if the reps lose the legislature. They dont do anything with it when they have it.

Dems taking power leads to endless TDS witch hunting and a domestically hamstringed Trump.

So perhaps this Iran "short term pain" also leads to more pain in Trump's last 2 years. That political fall out risk is on the table, if a lid cant be put on Iran soon.
GMaster0
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Trump and the Republicans created their own political coffin with this mess and as the days go by seem to be crawling into it, waiting for the dirt to shower over them.

It is really fascinating.
hph6203
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Zachary Klement
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
FobTies said:

Phatbob said:

I know you deep down understand that, but you rationalize the necessary need for military strength by blaming Israel.

I understand military action is necessary sometimes. The question is what return are taxpayers getting and is it just going to leave us with more debt. We keep hearing "short term pain, for long term gain". So we will have to revist this when the smoke clears, like with Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Ukraine. Im not seeing long term gains with those expenditures, maybe Iran will be different.

Im happy to admit Im wrong. I hope Trump has big deposit receipts for taxpayers on Iran before he leaves office. But if it ends up just being more ME war debt, I guarantee others here won't admit they were wrong. They will cling to, "Iran would have nuked Israel" if we didnt expend 100s of billions. Or "we did our part, it was the Iranian people and Israel that dropped the ball".

I would refer you all to Charlie Kirk's comments on war with Iran. I dont see anyone attacking or marginalizing him....his points are the exact same as mine. It was the general consensus with America 1st MAGA too...until Trump called an audible.
The long term gain?

Dude, listen to your government and trust them. You are safer because of this!
Ellis Wyatt
How long do you want to ignore this user?
YouBet said:

Mattressburn said:

I thought we obliterated their nuclear capabilities.



Been addressed a dozen times in this thread. Read it again.
Rip Van Winkle just woke up and got the talking points.
Tony Franklins Other Shoe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Haleyscomet50 said:

How do we win? No matter what happens Iran will claim victory which means Trump looses. Unless we put boots on the ground and take over the country then Trump looses. No end game it's a loose loose for us. So if we give Israel all this money why couldn't we stop them from attacking? True Iran could one day nuke them but so could North vs South Korea.


This **** makes me loose my mind.

Person Not Capable of Pregnancy
FobTies
How long do you want to ignore this user?
hph6203 said:



Ive never heard Tucker say Iran didn't want a bomb or wasn't on the path. Its that they weren't as close as the US gov led us to believe, to help them justify an imminent threat and war.

Iran had enriched uranium beyond what would be needed for energy/civilian use, implying weapon intentionality. No sworn testimony or any intel has really gone beyond that.

Many Americans have been gaslit to believe Iran had already began the process of assembling nuke warheads for ICBM use. This Iranian above admits they had no way of building and testing without getting caught, which indicates it was all still just an ambition.

Trump isnt claiming he wanted to kill that ambition, and make sure Iran had no chance. He is carelessly claiming Iran was about to fire nukes and takeover the ME. He makes these off the cuff statements about the initiation of war, as if they are convos about crowd size. Pretty wild, and not a stretch to consider that rhetoric as war mongering.
JustAGuy100
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I've been running through this analogy for a while and thought Inwould post it in light of the conversation.

Imagine a man in your neighborhood who constantly shouts that he wants you and your family dead. He publicly chants things like "death to your family," teaches his friends to chant it too, and repeatedly says that one day you'll be destroyed.

At first you try to ignore it.

But then you notice a few things happening.

First, he starts buying parts and assembling a gun in his garage. You watch him gather the pieces, practice with it, and talk about how powerful it will be once it's ready.

Second, he pays someone else down the street to break into your house and attack your family. The attacker carries out a brutal assault. Later you learn that the neighbor supplied the money, the weapons, and the training for that person.

Now the neighbor is still in his garage, still building the gun, still shouting that he wants you dead.

So you're faced with a question:
Do you wait until he finishes assembling the gun and walks toward your house?
Or do you act while he's making the weapon and hiring people to attack you?



hph6203
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Didn't really post it for the commentary, just the video of them stating they had intention of building a bomb. The problem with people is they see an enrichment level of 60% and claim they were doing science experiments, or some other non-sense.

That said, the enrichment of uranium is the biggest barrier to a bomb. It being a threat directly to the U.S. requires an ICBM and they are probably a bit away from that. The problem with the "don't attack" scenario is how long do you wait before it becomes an even bigger barrier of prevention? Iran was stockpiling drones, they were stock piling missiles, they were buying anti-aircraft technology. So they start progressing towards an actual nuclear bomb and/or an ICBM capable of reaching the U.S. and you have an even bigger hill to climb to knock that progress back to the ground.

What about when China starts supplying Iran with AI capabilities to make their weapons even more lethal?
flown-the-coop
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
War monger!! Enjoy your 401k heavily weighted in MIC stocks whilst Iranian schoolgirls are vaporized because their engineer fathers seek clean nuclear energy!

How dare you!

And yes, your analogy works. How people cannot grasp these basic concepts is a wonder.
Phatbob
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
FobTies said:

hph6203 said:



Ive never heard Tucker say Iran didn't want a bomb or wasn't on the path. Its that they weren't as close as the US gov led us to believe, to help them justify an imminent threat and war.

Iran had enriched uranium beyond what would be needed for energy/civilian use, implying weapon intentionality. No sworn testimony or any intel has really gone beyond that.

Many Americans have been gaslit to believe Iran had already began the process of assembling nuke warheads for ICBM use. This Iranian above admits they had no way of building and testing without getting caught, which indicates it was all still just an ambition.

Trump isnt claiming he wanted to kill that ambition, and make sure Iran had no chance. He is carelessly claiming Iran was about to fire nukes and takeover the ME. He makes these off the cuff statements about the initiation of war, as if they are convos about crowd size. Pretty wild, and not a stretch to consider that rhetoric as war mongering.


Why are you assuming we will always know, accurately, how far away they are? They just need 1 successful attempt at doing it without detection, which is what they are constantly trying to do.
flown-the-coop
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Some posters want you to trust Iran state media, Dem state media and limp-wristed EU leaders and ignore what DJT says and what his stellar cabinet and top natsec advisers say.

Iran was mostly peaceful looking at energy measures more renewable and environmental people. The mullahs are a caring group committed to peace, harmony and the earth.
cecil77
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
If you look at the origins of Shia vs Sunni, it's easier to understand how they would absolutely destroy Israel given the opportunity.
nortex97
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The Shia/Sunni split is very much an active and current cause of violence/resentment among the Arabs/Persians in the region.

It's tough to keep track of, politically speaking. There are Shia 'clerics' (using the term loosely) who are opposed to the mullah/IRGC regime ('mahdi grave worshippers').

All I really know is I wouldn't trust our CIA to pick the right guys to align with/back in any of this.
2026NCAggies
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GMaster0 said:

Trump and the Republicans created their own political coffin with this mess and as the days go by seem to be crawling into it, waiting for the dirt to shower over them.

It is really fascinating.


If the Republicans lose the house it will be because they did nothing while in office. We will not lose the Senate but they are worse than the house, Thune is a joke, absolute joke, hope he loses his ass in his next primary

It will also be because Pam Bondie has done nothing as well, she is useless and the base wanted to see arrests. That is on Trump for picking and not firing a do nothing loser
The Collective
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG


/insert "You arrogant ass, you've killed us" pic
japantiger
How long do you want to ignore this user?
S
Translated Text of the statement attributed to the new Supreme Leader:

I'm pretty sure either Kamala or AOC wrote this ....

In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful"We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it." (Quran 2:106)

Peace be upon you, O caller to God and the interpreter of His verses; peace be upon you, O gate of God and the administrator of His religion; peace be upon you, O vicegerent of God and helper of His right; peace be upon you, O proof of God and guide to His will; peace be upon you, O the foremost and the hoped-for; peace be upon you with all-encompassing peace; peace be upon you, O my master, the Owner of the Time.

At the beginning of my words, I must offer my condolences to my lordmay God hasten his reappearanceon the occasion of the heart-wrenching martyrdom of the great leader of the revolution, the dear and wise Khamenei, and request from him good prayers for each and every member of the great nation of Iran, and indeed all Muslims of the world, all servants of Islam and the revolution, the sacrificers, and the survivors of the martyrs of the Islamic movement, especially of the recent war, and for this humble self.

The second part of my words is addressed to the great nation of Iran. First, I must briefly state my position regarding the vote of the esteemed Assembly of Experts. This servant of yours, Seyyed Mojtaba Hosseini Khamenei, learned of the result of the vote of the esteemed Assembly simultaneously with you through the Islamic Republic Broadcasting. For me, sitting in a place that was the seat of two great leaders, the great Khomeini and the martyred Khamenei, is a difficult task, because this chair has the history of seating someone who, after more than 60 years of striving in the way of God and forgoing all kinds of pleasures and comforts, became a shining jewel and a distinguished figure not only in the present era but throughout the history of the rulers of this country. Both his life and the manner of his death were intertwined with glory and honor derived from reliance on the truth.

I had the honor of visiting his body after martyrdom; what I saw was a mountain of steadfastness, and I heard that his healthy hand was clenched into a fist. Regarding the various aspects of his personality, knowledgeable people must speak at length; in this space, I suffice with this summary and leave the details to other suitable occasions. This is the reason for the difficulty of sitting in the leadership chair after such a person; bridging this gap is only possible with the help of the Almighty and your assistance, the people.Next, it is necessary to emphasize a point that is directly related to the essence of my words: one of the arts of the martyred leader and his great predecessor was involving the people in all arenas, continuously giving them insight and awareness, and in practice relying on their power. In this way, they actualized the true meaning of the republic and republicanism and believed in it from the depths of their hearts. The clear effect of this was seen in these few days when the country was without a leader and without a commander-in-chief. The insight and intelligence of the great nation of Iran in the recent event, its steadfastness, courage, and presence, made friends admire and enemies astonished. It was you, the people, who led the country and guaranteed its authority. The verse I brought at the beginning of this writing means that there is no sign from the signs of God that either its time ends or it is forgotten, except that from the side of the Almighty God, a similar or better one is given in its place.

The relevance of using this noble verse is not that this servant is at the level of the martyred leader, let alone that I want to be considered superior to him; rather, the purpose of mentioning the blessed verse is to draw attention to your appropriate and prominent role, dear nation. If that great blessing was taken from us, in its place, once again, the Umar-like presence of the Iranian nation was granted to this system. Know this: if your power does not appear on the scene, neither the leadership nor any of the various institutions whose real role is serving the people will have the necessary efficiency. To make this meaning better realized, first, remembrance of the Blessed and Exalted God, trust in Him, and recourse to the pure lights of the Infalliblespeace be upon them allshould be seen as the greatest elixir and red sulfur, which guarantees all kinds of openings and definitive victory over the enemy. This is a great advantage that you possess and your enemies lack.

Second, unity among all individuals and strata of the nation, which usually shows a special manifestation in times of hardship, must not be damaged; this is achieved by overlooking points of disagreement.Third, effective presence on the scene must be maintained, whether in the form you have shown in these days and nights of war or in various effective roles in social, political, educational, cultural, and even security arenas. The important thing is that the correct role, without damaging social unity, is well understood and implemented as much as possible. One of the duties of the leadership and some other officials is to remind some of these roles to individuals or strata of society; therefore, I remind you of the importance of participation in the Quds Day 1447 ceremonies, where the enemy-breaking element must be considered by everyone.Fourth, do not neglect helping and assisting each other. Praise be to God, the constant trait of most Iranians has been nothing but this, and it is expected that in these special days, which naturally pass harder for some members of the nation than others, this matter will have more prominence. In this very space, I ask service institutions not to withhold any kind of aid and assistance to those dear members of the nation and to popular relief structures in this direction.If these aspects are observed, the path for you, dear nation, to days of greatness and glory will be paved; the nearest example of it can be, God willing, victory over the enemy in the current war.

The third part of my words is sincere thanks to our brave fighters who, in conditions where our nation and dear homeland have been unjustly attacked by the heads of the arrogance front, have blocked the enemy's path with their crushing blows and removed them from the illusion of the possibility of dominating our dear homeland and possibly partitioning it.Dear fighter brothers! The desire of the masses of people is the continuation of effective and regret-inducing defense; also, the lever of closing the Strait of Hormuz must definitely continue to be used. Studies have been conducted regarding opening other fronts where the enemy has little experience and will be severely vulnerable in them, and their activation will take place if the war situation continues and in accordance with considerations of expediency.I also sincerely thank the fighters of the resistance front. We consider the countries of the resistance front as our best friends, and the matter of resistance and the resistance front is an inseparable part of the values of the Islamic Revolution. Undoubtedly, the cooperation of the components of this front with each other will shorten the path to liberation from the Zionist sedition; just as we saw that brave and faithful Yemen did not stop defending the oppressed people of Gaza, and self-sacrificing Hezbollah has come to the aid of the Islamic Republic despite all obstacles, and the Iraqi resistance has also bravely taken this line.

In the fourth part, my words are addressed to those who have been harmed in some way in these few days, whether those who have experienced the grief of the martyrdom of a dear one or dear ones; whether those who have been injured, or individuals whose homes or places of business have been damaged. In this part, first, I declare my deep sympathy with the honorable survivors of the martyrs; this is based on a shared experience that I have with these great ones. Apart from my father, whose loss has become a public grief, I have entrusted to the caravan of martyrs my dear and faithful wife, to whom I had hopes, my self-sacrificing sister who dedicated herself to serving her parents and ultimately received her reward, as well as her young child, and the husband of my other sister who was a knowledgeable and honorable person. But what makes patience in the face of calamities possible and even easy is attention to God's definite and certain promise of a valuable reward for the patient; therefore, one must be patient and have hope and trust in the grace and support of the Almighty God.

Second, I assure everyone that we will not forgo avenging the blood of your martyrs; the revenge we have in mind is not only related to the martyrdom of the great leader of the revolution, but every member of the nation who is martyred by the enemy is an independent subject for the revenge file. Of course, a limited amount of this revenge has so far taken concrete form, but until its full extent is achieved, this file will remain on top of the other files, and especially we will have more sensitivity regarding the blood of our children and infants; therefore, the crime that the enemy deliberately committed regarding the Shajare Tayyebeh School in Minab and some similar cases has a special status in this investigation.

Third, the injured veterans of these attacks must certainly receive appropriate medical services free of charge and benefit from some other privileges.

Fourth, as far as the current situation allows, sufficient, defined, and implemented actions must be taken to compensate for the financial damages inflicted on places and personal properties; the last two cases are as mandatory duties for the honorable officials, who must implement them and report to me.A point that I must remind is that in any case, we will take compensation from the enemy, and if it refuses, we will take from its assets as much as we deem, and if that is not possible, we will destroy its assets to that extent.

The fifth part of the words is addressed to the leaders and effective ranks in some countries of the region. We have 15 countries with land or sea neighborhood and have always been and are willing to have warm and constructive relations with all of them; however, the enemy has gradually established bases, both military and financial, in some of these countries over the years to secure its dominance over the region. In the recent aggression, some military bases were used, which naturally, as we had given a clear warning and without any aggression against those countries, we have only attacked those bases; from now on, we will inevitably continue this work, although we still believe in the necessity of friendship between ourselves and those neighbors. These countries must clarify their position with the aggressors against our dear homeland and the killers of our people. I recommend that they close those bases as soon as possible; because they must have realized by now that America's claim of establishing security and peace is nothing but a lie.

This will cause them to have a stronger bond with their own nations, who are generally dissatisfied with accompanying the infidel front and its humiliating behavior. And peace be upon you, and God's mercy and blessings.
Seyyed Mojtaba Hosseini Khamenei

“It was miraculous. It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice. Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all. It merely required no character.”
Joseph Heller, Catch 22
The Collective
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
So wait, Shia are just waiting for Paul Atreides to show up?
FobTies
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Phatbob said:


Why are you assuming we will always know, accurately, how far away they are? They just need 1 successful attempt at doing it without detection, which is what they are constantly trying to do.

Its looking more and more like our intelligence community was on board for Midnight Hammer justification, but not on board for Epic Fury. I'll save that topic for the "where is Tulsi/DNI" thread.

Most here are convinced there was still an imminent nuke threat after Midnight Hammer, so Im beating a dead horse. Its really like Iraq WMDs 2.0, where everyone believed Saddam was also about to have just 1 successful attempt if we didnt strike.

I think we may later see politcal fallout from intel recommendations that conflicted with the WH Epic Fury narrative. Especially if this all doesnt wrap up soon.
hph6203
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
It is incredibly naive to believe that the time to act on a nuclear weapons development program is the moment the threat becomes imminent. People believe that the claim the threat was not imminent is a valid justification for opposing action.

Please define imminent, and then justify why you think it should be put off until the point it is imminent.


How 'bout inevitable absent intervention? Is it appropriate to act if the threat is inevitable absent intervention? Because from where I'm sitting the threat was inevitable absent intervention.
Old May Banker
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:

from where I'm sitting the threat was inevitable absent intervention.

Phatbob
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
FobTies said:

Phatbob said:


Why are you assuming we will always know, accurately, how far away they are? They just need 1 successful attempt at doing it without detection, which is what they are constantly trying to do.

It looking more and more like our intelligence community was on board for Midnight Hammer justification, but not on board for Epic Fury. I'll save that topic for the "where is Tulsi/DNI" thread.

Most here are convinced there was still an imminent nuke threat after Midnight Hammer, no Im beating a dead horse. Its really like Iraq WMDs 2.0, where everyone believed Saddam was also about to have just 1 successful attempt if we didnt strike.

I think we may later see politcal fallout from intel recommendations that conflicted with the WH Epic Fury narrative. Especially if this all doesnt wrap up soon.

The question is not "Was Iran within x number of units of time of nuking us". I think that is a question we get sick of asking and is not how we should handle it anymore. The question is "When is the best opportunity to deal with Iran, now or later?" The answer is now. It's not a question about if we will have to deal with them, because it's going to have to happen, but when do we decide to do it. They were knocked down several pegs last summer, and were building back all their armaments in order to defend themselves better. We can do now in a few weeks what could take months or more and cost more lives in the future having to deal with it after Iran recovers.

This is good because it's the right timing to do it. Consider it a March Madness sale... taking Iran out at 75% off.

samurai_science
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The Collective said:

So wait, Shia are just waiting for Paul Atreides to show up?

Which makes sense, since the entire point of the trilogy was a warning against such leaders.
aggiedata
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Carney has no spine

boulderaggie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
That's bad.
2026NCAggies
How long do you want to ignore this user?
aggiedata said:

Carney has no spine



Canada has soldiers?
hph6203
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
We are in a new era of war fighting. Distributed intelligence gathering and remote controlled attack drones.

hph6203
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Queso1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I don't recall Tucker questioning when Iran was developing nuclear weapons.
aggiedata
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Buck doesn't stop anywhere in Canada

flown-the-coop
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
are the people behind him the brigade that will ensure all dog feces are properly bagged and secured?
hph6203
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Point of that tweet was the video. I have no idea if Tucker said that. Just a convenient way to provide an admission by the Iranian government that they were producing a weapon for those that say they were just doing science and that there's a fatwa on a nuclear weapon.
FobTies
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Matt Walsh has been consistent with principled healthy skepticism. Just like the late great legend Charlie Kirk was on war with Iran. All Americans should be cautious about Bibi goading Trump into biting off more than WE can chew. Thats what real America First is.


 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.