I'm so sorry to hear that.Kansas Kid said:
Unfortunately I know at least one on the plane. The family as of 10-15 minutes ago still hasn't heard anything according to a mutual friend but unfortunately it doesn't look good.
thought the sameCatag94 said:
With all due reverence for the lives involved, I really hope Pete Hegseth was NOT on that Helo.
Or the helo pilot thought he was supposed to be avoiding the other aircraft, and didn't see the approaching CRJ.bthotugigem05 said:That's going to be the question. Looked like the CRJ was on a fairly typical glide path into DCA. Not sure whether the helo thought the jet was moving faster than it was or what.deddog said:But they might have been distracted in the cockpit because of other issues? It was dusk, so it's posible they didn't see the CRJ?FireAg said:titan said:That points toward Annie's idea of medical event perhaps. It also does increase the odds of intentional (or again, too mulish about some `ops' mission to respond)ETFan said:
ATC asks PAT25 (the heli) if they have the crj in sight twice with no response then impact a bit later.
Blackhawks have two pilots, correct? So it would have to be a medical for both, no? Seems highly unlikely…
bthotugigem05 said:
Yes. It happens. ATC controls class B airspace from 0 to 10000 feet. They are in charge of coordinating all that traffic. It's why DCA controllers are considered some of the best, so much traffic coming and going at all hours.
Decay said:Catag94 said:
With all due reverence for the lives involved, I really hope Pete Hegseth was NOT on that Helo.
When they say VIP, what does that usually entail? Politicians? CEOs? Foreign dignitaries? Military Brass?
deddog said:But they might have been distracted in the cockpit because of other issues? It was dusk, so it's posible they didn't see the CRJ?FireAg said:titan said:That points toward Annie's idea of medical event perhaps. It also does increase the odds of intentional (or again, too mulish about some `ops' mission to respond)ETFan said:
ATC asks PAT25 (the heli) if they have the crj in sight twice with no response then impact a bit later.
Blackhawks have two pilots, correct? So it would have to be a medical for both, no? Seems highly unlikely…
He wasn't.Catag94 said:
With all due reverence for the lives involved, I really hope Pete Hegseth was NOT on that Helo.
DoD actively monitoring. Poised to assist if needed. Prayers for all involved. https://t.co/qoFy90q22K
— Pete Hegseth (@PeteHegseth) January 30, 2025
Catag94 said:Gordo14 said:The Kraken said:HowdyTAMU said:
TCAS should have been screaming at both pilots telling them how to maneuver and avoid. I fear the worst as the helo should have been able to take evasive measures.
Do military helicopters have TCAS?
Even if they did that's not really a place where TCAS would work. There was no room for both aircraft to maneuver at that altitude.
100% this is ATC or the helicopter. We will probably know the answet by tomorrow as someone is already breaking down the ATC trnasmissions.
Agreed. I cannot image a scenario where any aircraft would ever be cleared to transition an ILS approach path to a runway at the approach altitude. Helo should not have been there or even planning to transition that space.
Should have been further out at that altitude Or over the runway centerline, but that's not possible given other runways.
It may look that way, but you really need to consider how narrow the window to T-bone the approaching jet is --- especially with a chopper trying to get it at right angles.Charlie 31 said:I have been wondering the same thing.Who?mikejones! said:Emergency services have confirmed that American Airlines Flight 5342, which was involved in the crash near Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport was carrying 64 individuals, including four crew members. The exact number of personnel aboard the PAT-designated UH-60 Black Hawk… pic.twitter.com/Px9FMVHsRx
— GMI (@Global_Mil_Info) January 30, 2025
Gotta wonder if anyone was on the helo
How did that helicopter fly straight into that plane unless there was intent to crash into the plane?
This looks like it was a targeted crash.
AggieFlyboy said:
Once again the lack of aviation knowledge becomes readily apparent in this thread.
What I am thinking right now. Airplane on final, within the approach designated corridor, passed outer markers, within intermediate and then inner markers. Landing lights on and flashing.Quote:
Gotta wonder if anyone was on the helo
In the video there's another larger aircraft that might have been what the pilot mistook for what ATC was relaying but why not even acknowledge, especially a second time. If that last part is true it does start to lean towards something more sinister.Rapier108 said:Or the helo pilot thought he was supposed to be avoiding the other aircraft, and didn't see the approaching CRJ.bthotugigem05 said:That's going to be the question. Looked like the CRJ was on a fairly typical glide path into DCA. Not sure whether the helo thought the jet was moving faster than it was or what.deddog said:But they might have been distracted in the cockpit because of other issues? It was dusk, so it's posible they didn't see the CRJ?FireAg said:titan said:That points toward Annie's idea of medical event perhaps. It also does increase the odds of intentional (or again, too mulish about some `ops' mission to respond)ETFan said:
ATC asks PAT25 (the heli) if they have the crj in sight twice with no response then impact a bit later.
Blackhawks have two pilots, correct? So it would have to be a medical for both, no? Seems highly unlikely…
Wouldn't be the first time a pilot was told avoid an aircraft, but looked at a different one than ATC was referring to, thought he was good, and when crunch. PSA 182 comes to mind.
FireAg said:deddog said:But they might have been distracted in the cockpit because of other issues? It was dusk, so it's posible they didn't see the CRJ?FireAg said:titan said:That points toward Annie's idea of medical event perhaps. It also does increase the odds of intentional (or again, too mulish about some `ops' mission to respond)ETFan said:
ATC asks PAT25 (the heli) if they have the crj in sight twice with no response then impact a bit later.
Blackhawks have two pilots, correct? So it would have to be a medical for both, no? Seems highly unlikely…
Could have been distracted…absolutely…
But man…looking at the video…they were distracted for a long period of time…and they didn't acknowledge two attempts (apparently) by ATC to make sure they saw the jet coming in…
DOI is US Park Police. They're involved in the rescue now, along with DC Metro PD helicopter and PG county.Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Unverified
But Department of the Interior?
FireAg said:deddog said:But they might have been distracted in the cockpit because of other issues? It was dusk, so it's posible they didn't see the CRJ?FireAg said:titan said:That points toward Annie's idea of medical event perhaps. It also does increase the odds of intentional (or again, too mulish about some `ops' mission to respond)ETFan said:
ATC asks PAT25 (the heli) if they have the crj in sight twice with no response then impact a bit later.
Blackhawks have two pilots, correct? So it would have to be a medical for both, no? Seems highly unlikely…
Could have been distracted…absolutely…
But man…looking at the video…they were distracted for a long period of time…and they didn't acknowledge two attempts (apparently) by ATC to make sure they saw the jet coming in…
No, in fact, despite the fact that it is one of the three best explanations, now leaning away from ATC error --- if they were hailing the copter about seeing the crj, they were aware of the situation. This was a case of the helo is ignoring them.agAngeldad said:bthotugigem05 said:
Yes. It happens. ATC controls class B airspace from 0 to 10000 feet. They are in charge of coordinating all that traffic. It's why DCA controllers are considered some of the best, so much traffic coming and going at all hours.
I wouldn't say "BEST". I have known a few. They are tower controllers and they (DCA) do not have the same training as busy tower or radar controllers. However, I wouldn't blame this on ATC just yet.
Pinochet said:Catag94 said:Gordo14 said:The Kraken said:HowdyTAMU said:
TCAS should have been screaming at both pilots telling them how to maneuver and avoid. I fear the worst as the helo should have been able to take evasive measures.
Very likely hypothesis. The pattern at DCA is stacked to where its common to see three planes on approach for a single runway on a clear day. "Do you have the RJ in sight?" could refer to at least two maybe even more airplanes , especially at night where you're judging distance based on lights.
Do military helicopters have TCAS?
Even if they did that's not really a place where TCAS would work. There was no room for both aircraft to maneuver at that altitude.
100% this is ATC or the helicopter. We will probably know the answet by tomorrow as someone is already breaking down the ATC trnasmissions.
Agreed. I cannot image a scenario where any aircraft would ever be cleared to transition an ILS approach path to a runway at the approach altitude. Helo should not have been there or even planning to transition that space.
Should have been further out at that altitude Or over the runway centerline, but that's not possible given other runways.
What are you talking about? That was a visual approach. That happens all the time and the UH-60 was told by the controller to pass behind the RJ. My money is on those guys identifying the wrong RJ and the accident aircraft being in their blind spot. Not sure about RJs, but TAs are turned off below 400 on the airbus, so they wouldn't have gotten the traffic callout in their cockpit either.
Not to mention, a CRJ is pretty small compared to a 737 and especially compared to the heavies. This was most likely an accidentbthotugigem05 said:
The vectors involved to purposefully hit a descending jet with a helicopter, even at a 90-degree angle (if that was the case here), are so insurmountably unlikely that they almost are impossible to calculate.
Or patently absurd. "Something distracting the pilots" --- to have both their attention, it sounds medical --- or absurd, amorous. But over such airspace? Nah. It had to be medical.Prosperdick said:In the video there's another larger aircraft that might have been what the pilot mistook for what ATC was relaying but why not even acknowledge, especially a second time. If that last part is true it does start to lean towards something more sinister.Rapier108 said:Or the helo pilot thought he was supposed to be avoiding the other aircraft, and didn't see the approaching CRJ.bthotugigem05 said:That's going to be the question. Looked like the CRJ was on a fairly typical glide path into DCA. Not sure whether the helo thought the jet was moving faster than it was or what.deddog said:But they might have been distracted in the cockpit because of other issues? It was dusk, so it's posible they didn't see the CRJ?FireAg said:titan said:That points toward Annie's idea of medical event perhaps. It also does increase the odds of intentional (or again, too mulish about some `ops' mission to respond)ETFan said:
ATC asks PAT25 (the heli) if they have the crj in sight twice with no response then impact a bit later.
Blackhawks have two pilots, correct? So it would have to be a medical for both, no? Seems highly unlikely…
Wouldn't be the first time a pilot was told avoid an aircraft, but looked at a different one than ATC was referring to, thought he was good, and when crunch. PSA 182 comes to mind.
No Sr U.S officials aboard...at the time of this collision?Who?mikejones! said:There were no senior U.S. officials aboard the Black Hawk helicopter at the time of tonight's collision with a jet liner over the Potomac, a senior defense official said.
— Dan Lamothe (@DanLamothe) January 30, 2025
That adequately explains the inconsistent reports then. DC and Park Police responded to the incident and were being falsely reported as the aircraft involved.InfantryAg said:DOI is US Park Police. They're involved in the rescue now, along with DC Metro PD helicopter and PG county.Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Unverified
But Department of the Interior?
At 8:48 PM this evening, American Eagle Flight 5342 collided with a US Army UH-60 Blackhawk flying as PAT25 while on short final to runway 33 at DCA. Both aircraft went down in the Potomac River.
— OSINTtechnical (@Osinttechnical) January 30, 2025
Available ADS-B data from adsbexchange here: pic.twitter.com/CGGCAdvfdA
Catag94 said:
I suspect passing behind AND below is more what FAA had in mind.
The term "large aircraft" has a specific meaning and is not just in the judgement of the casual observer.Rossticus said:
What little I've seen refers to it as a "small plane" so I'm not even sure what type of craft this was. Doesn't even seem to reach the threshold of private jet, much less regional passenger jet (at least not based on limited reports). Will have to wait and see.
EDIT: to add that everything I've seen involving an AA jet hedges pretty strongly. It's terrible regardless but I HOPE it was a very small craft with few passengers.
Pinochet said:Catag94 said:Gordo14 said:The Kraken said:HowdyTAMU said:
TCAS should have been screaming at both pilots telling them how to maneuver and avoid. I fear the worst as the helo should have been able to take evasive measures.
Do military helicopters have TCAS?
Even if they did that's not really a place where TCAS would work. There was no room for both aircraft to maneuver at that altitude.
100% this is ATC or the helicopter. We will probably know the answet by tomorrow as someone is already breaking down the ATC trnasmissions.
Agreed. I cannot image a scenario where any aircraft would ever be cleared to transition an ILS approach path to a runway at the approach altitude. Helo should not have been there or even planning to transition that space.
Should have been further out at that altitude Or over the runway centerline, but that's not possible given other runways.
What are you talking about? That was a visual approach. That happens all the time and the UH-60 was told by the controller to pass behind the RJ. My money is on those guys identifying the wrong RJ and the accident aircraft being in their blind spot. Not sure about RJs, but TAs are turned off below 400 on the airbus, so they wouldn't have gotten the traffic callout in their cockpit either.
