Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Name will leak. There's a whole unit of people out there that knows what the deal is.

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Army and the pilot are going to get sued for causing the crash and the name will come out.

Kenneth_2003 said:

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FatZilla said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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Listened to the audio today. Based on how the media was reporting, it sounded like the ATC wasn't in constant communication. Could not be further from the truth. That controller was talking to other aircraft throughout the flight all the way up to the crash. Clear that after visual was confirmed by the Blackhawk that the controller moved on to other issues. Hard to blame ATC for this

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There is that whole altitude thing ATC should have noticed, no? Helicopter was way above its max allowed altitude for flying the river corridor.

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Again, I don't think it's that clear...

Radar scope showed 300ft. Reported as Flight Level 003. Just one significant figure.
Where does the rounding occur?

• Automatically round UP? -- All transponder altimeter data from 201ft -- 300ft reported to ATC as 300
• Round up at midpoint? -- Transponder altimeter data from 250ft -- 349ft reported to ATC as 300

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Wasn't it reporting 400 at time of impact (flightradar public data) and 200 is the max altitude they are supposed to be at? The jet was at an estimated 375-400 when hit. Thats not a rounding error.

Kenneth_2003 said:

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FatZilla said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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Listened to the audio today. Based on how the media was reporting, it sounded like the ATC wasn't in constant communication. Could not be further from the truth. That controller was talking to other aircraft throughout the flight all the way up to the crash. Clear that after visual was confirmed by the Blackhawk that the controller moved on to other issues. Hard to blame ATC for this

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There is that whole altitude thing ATC should have noticed, no? Helicopter was way above its max allowed altitude for flying the river corridor.

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Again, I don't think it's that clear...

Radar scope showed 300ft. Reported as Flight Level 003. Just one significant figure.
Where does the rounding occur?

• Automatically round UP? -- All transponder altimeter data from 201ft -- 300ft reported to ATC as 300
• Round up at midpoint? -- Transponder altimeter data from 250ft -- 349ft reported to ATC as 300

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Collision reportedly happened at 395'. If that is true, it doesn't matter what the scope said, the helo was 2x its max cleared altitude.

txags92 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Name will leak. There's a whole unit of people out there that knows what the deal is.

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Army and the pilot are going to get sued for causing the crash and the name will come out.

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I mean, I grew up next to a military base. To my knowledge, every single time a helicopter crashed or a 113 sunk in a flooded creek, or ___________ name your training accident, the people involved were named whether they were at fault or not. Not a single instance I recall involved the death of 70 people.

In fact, I had a friend whose dad was killed in the crash of a "repaired" aircraft that had a subsequent malfunction. He and his co-pilot were named. It was awful, but goes with the territory.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Rapier108 said:

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I'm sure everyone will treat the family with such great respect. /eyeroll

Harassing and threatening phone calls will be inevitable, even though they did nothing wrong. Might even result in an act of violence out of some misguided notion of "revenge."

If DOD rules/federal law allow the soldier's name to be kept private when they are killed while in active service, then it is the family's right to exercise that option and DOD is bound by it. From what I've found so far online, there are a tons of different rules governing releasing information on deceased service members. I don't have time right now to go through all of the weeds to figure out what rules apply in this case.

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How people react isn't really the point. Maybe police protection at her home is necessary. She's a public servant and not entitled to any shielding from the public. That isn't how being a public employee works.

People should absolutely not bother her family. America should still know her name. She may or may not be at fault for anything, but that is irrelevant. Nearly 70 people died in an accident she was heavily involved in. It has to be public.

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Sheesh, you're really starting to sound like a character out of Atlas Shrugged with all this public servant talk!!

Do we even know who was at the controls when the crash happened?

BBRex said:

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Do we even know who was at the controls when the crash happened?

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Just rumors. Nothing confirmed one way or the other.

Charpie said:

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The family of the female copilot has asked for her name not to be released

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Its also possible that the DOD highly suggested to the family to request this.

Pat Tillman's family knows a thing or two about misinformation from DOD.

JFABNRGR said:

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Charpie said:

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The family of the female copilot has asked for her name not to be released

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Its also possible that the DOD highly suggested to the family to request this.

Pat Tillman's family knows a thing or two about misinformation from DOD.

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It's pretty sad

Whaler said:

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Apparently one helicopter pilot had 1,000 hours and the other had 500 hours. That's not a ton of time. But more importantly, I wonder how much time they had in that type of aircraft (Blackhawk Helo) and in those conditions (night). A good chunk of their total time was very likely in fixed wing aircraft and probably not at night... just curious.

It seems pretty clear the helicopter shouldn't have been at that altitude, and in the jet's flight path on final approach. So, pretty sure it was pilot error in the helicopter. Inexperience in those conditions may have played a part.

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Unless there is a new release the guy with 1000 hours was the crew chief. He has no access to the controls and is not one of the crew members flying the aircraft.

Army pilots get no fixed- wing training unless they transition to a fixed-wing unit. All of your flight training is on rotary-wing. You get around 70-80 hours in the UH-72 (TH-67 for us old guys) and then transition directly to your advanced aircraft. You'll get around 40 hours at Rucker in that aircraft before going to your first unit. If the 500 hour number is correct, it was all rotary- wing.

They were probably wearing NVGs. We train pilots to look under the NVGs to see incoming weather and to identify objects that you need to see in color. The NVGs restrict your field of vision to 40 degrees. NVG gets your acuity to about 20/25. Without a distance given the pilots would have been looking all over the area they were told to look in. Sometimes lights look different under NVG. Sometimes an aircraft light can look like a tower and a tower like an aircraft.

Yes, we have ADS-B. It is used in the states, especially in Class B airspace with heavy traffic.

Catag94 said:

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Can you make the case that a CRJ needs to land at DCA any more than the Army needs to operate helicopters there?

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Yeah, I can make a case for that. The fact that the airport is open and receiving traffic means they need it more than the Army, or whatever branch, needs to fly helos in THAT area, especially at night. If that area was the only possible location for this particular type of flight or type of training, then proceed with caution, but the video from the passenger from earlier in the week seems to indicate an LBJ expressway type of traffic pattern just where it doesn't need to be. There aren't an abnormal number of police/EMS flights of this kind, so your use cases are largely irrelevant.

I'm sorry if you military types disagree, but the burden is on you to make the case for THIS LOCATION, and that involves eliminating other potential locations for helo flights/training. It would be a massive waste of resources to close (or even curtail traffic at) Reagan, especially for this reason (the training flights, not the accident per se). We're not talking Stapleton and all the problems that airport had, here. Reagan is a top 25 airport in terms of passenger traffic, not much less than Philly and busier than San Diego.

But just saying that there are other cases of aircraft traffic and necessities, in my opinion, doesn't cut it. From what we're seeing here, this was an accident waiting to happen, and if those other cases that you're mentioning present the same degrees of risk, we need to look carefully at them. But people flying commercially shouldn't have to worry about crossing paths with abnormal flight traffic when there is probably a half dozen other military bases capable of handling these flights/training that aren't interfering with or putting commercial air traffic at much risk at all.

I live near DFW. I could pull out of my house and be on airport property within 10 minutes. I almost never see choppers around here. Yet, I see them in other places around town -- news/traffic, (likely) EMS, possible police or commercial, etc. Not every day, of course, but sometimes. I realize that's anecdotal, but I've lived in this general area for a LONG time and my experience has been the same during that entire time.

BBRex said:

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Do we even know who was at the controls when the crash happened?

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Wouldn't the Trainee be at the controls for the entire flight? However, CoPilot has controls, correct?

Ag with kids said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Why do you think a chopper pilot trained in fixed wing?

And a Blackhawk pilot starts training in Blackhawks while still in flight school

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One of my test pilots at Bell was a Marine Cobra pilot. He said in the Marines when he was there, they all learned fixed wing first and didn't move to rotors till later.

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That's the Marines. The Army has a different method of flight training.

Muy said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Per Fox, Reagan ATC was understaffed with only 19 certified ATC controllers out of a need for 30.

Indicated that helicopters and plane take offs and arrivals were handled by two folks not one.

I suspect Trump was aware of this before today's presser.

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Just continues to make it harder to support this guy after begrudgingly voting for him again. Immediately going to point fingers at the same time they're pulling bodies out of the water. You're the president now....everything is your responsibility now...have the cojones to either own it or just skip the blame and offer prayers and commit to making it better. Good grief.
Its like he does good with the ICE raids one minute and the minute tragedy strikes its all 'not my fault'

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Own what exactly? If he knows that 1 person was doing the work for 2, how exactly is that on him? It meets what he said which is more than likely bad management and incompetence led to this.

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He now owns the system. Whether that comes with the bad management/incompetence. The FAA and air traffic control systems in particular have long been in need for updates...both in hiring and in infrastructure. Pilot error, air traffic control workload, etc led to this. Blaming DEI (even if I agree with getting rid of DEI) for this just looks stupid in the moment. A good leader gather all the information first before laying any blame. Trump is incapable of restraint and ability to do this. So yes...he needs to own the disaster, evaluate and fix. Ironically, part of what will improve the safety is more government spending on ATC infrastructure and hiring.
Its easy to blame someone else for everything. The hard work is actually fixing it. Hopefully he will do that.

WolfCall said:

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BBRex said:

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Do we even know who was at the controls when the crash happened?

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Wouldn't the Trainee be at the controls for the entire flight? However, CoPilot has controls, correct?

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No, both pilots fly throughout the flight depending on the situation and what is being evaluated.

I believe when they mentioned the females body had been recovered, they stated co-pilot so it isn't all on her, yet they released the other names. And the males voice was heard over the comms if I remember correctly.

Quote:

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It's pretty sad

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Horrible. I feel for her family.

Olag00 said:

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I believe when they mentioned the females body had been recovered, they stated co-pilot so it isn't all on her, yet they released the other names. And the males voice was heard over the comms if I remember correctly.

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As has been stated repeatedly on this thread, the Army hasn't released any names yet of the crew. The families of the warrant and crew chief identified them through social media.

GAC06 said:

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Olag00 said:

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I believe when they mentioned the females body had been recovered, they stated co-pilot so it isn't all on her, yet they released the other names. And the males voice was heard over the comms if I remember correctly.

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As has been stated repeatedly on this thread, the Army hasn't released any names yet of the crew. The families of the warrant and crew chief identified them through social media.

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That is incorrect.

https://www.army.mil/article/282768/the_department_of_army_identifies_two_of_three_army_soldiers_involved_in_helicopter_crash

Quote:

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The UH-60 helicopter from the 12th Aviation Battalion, Davison Army Airfield, Fort Belvoir, Va., collided in midair with an American Airlines Bombardier CRJ700 regional jet Flight 5342 at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport. The FAA, NTSB and the United States Army are investigating. The NTSB will lead the investigation. We are working with local officials and will provide any additional information once it becomes available.

Staff Sgt. Ryan Austin O'Hara, 28, of Lilburn, Georgia, is believed to be deceased pending positive identification.

The remains of Chief Warrant Officer 2 Andrew Loyd Eaves, 39, of Great Mills, Maryland, have not yet been recovered, therefore is duty status-whereabouts unknown (DUSTWUN).

At the request of the family, the name of the third Soldier will not be released at this time. That pilot is also DUSTWUN.

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Post above beat me to it.

I stand corrected, I'm a few hours behind apparently

nm, already addressed

FatZilla said:

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Kenneth_2003 said:

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FatZilla said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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Listened to the audio today. Based on how the media was reporting, it sounded like the ATC wasn't in constant communication. Could not be further from the truth. That controller was talking to other aircraft throughout the flight all the way up to the crash. Clear that after visual was confirmed by the Blackhawk that the controller moved on to other issues. Hard to blame ATC for this

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There is that whole altitude thing ATC should have noticed, no? Helicopter was way above its max allowed altitude for flying the river corridor.

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Again, I don't think it's that clear...

Radar scope showed 300ft. Reported as Flight Level 003. Just one significant figure.
Where does the rounding occur?

• Automatically round UP? -- All transponder altimeter data from 201ft -- 300ft reported to ATC as 300
• Round up at midpoint? -- Transponder altimeter data from 250ft -- 349ft reported to ATC as 300

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Wasn't it reporting 400 at time of impact (flightradar public data) and 200 is the max altitude they are supposed to be at? The jet was at an estimated 375-400 when hit. Thats not a rounding error.

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Ok. I seen to be recalling screenshots earlier in the thread showing 003 on the transponder tag.

375 would absolutely be high. Heck 250 is too high!
Imagery and map overlays on YouTube also suggest that were west of the Route 4 track. Also bad.

ArmyAg2002 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Why do you think a chopper pilot trained in fixed wing?

And a Blackhawk pilot starts training in Blackhawks while still in flight school

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One of my test pilots at Bell was a Marine Cobra pilot. He said in the Marines when he was there, they all learned fixed wing first and didn't move to rotors till later.

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That's the Marines. The Army has a different method of flight training.

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Fair enough. Just giving a reason why someone might think that.

Prior to him telling me, I just assumed he'd started with rotors.

BluHorseShu said:

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Muy said:

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BluHorseShu said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Per Fox, Reagan ATC was understaffed with only 19 certified ATC controllers out of a need for 30.

Indicated that helicopters and plane take offs and arrivals were handled by two folks not one.

I suspect Trump was aware of this before today's presser.

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Just continues to make it harder to support this guy after begrudgingly voting for him again. Immediately going to point fingers at the same time they're pulling bodies out of the water. You're the president now....everything is your responsibility now...have the cojones to either own it or just skip the blame and offer prayers and commit to making it better. Good grief.
Its like he does good with the ICE raids one minute and the minute tragedy strikes its all 'not my fault'

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Own what exactly? If he knows that 1 person was doing the work for 2, how exactly is that on him? It meets what he said which is more than likely bad management and incompetence led to this.

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He now owns the system. Whether that comes with the bad management/incompetence. The FAA and air traffic control systems in particular have long been in need for updates...both in hiring and in infrastructure. Pilot error, air traffic control workload, etc led to this. Blaming DEI (even if I agree with getting rid of DEI) for this just looks stupid in the moment. A good leader gather all the information first before laying any blame. Trump is incapable of restraint and ability to do this. So yes...he needs to own the disaster, evaluate and fix. Ironically, part of what will improve the safety is more government spending on ATC infrastructure and hiring.
Its easy to blame someone else for everything. The hard work is actually fixing it. Hopefully he will do that.

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MAYBE this will finally get the gov't/FAA to REALLY do an upgrade to the ATC system. I know NextGen is working on it but it needs to be MASSIVELY accelerated.

I work in the unmanned aircraft field and the plan is to add MORE traffic to the NAS with Advance Air Mobility. We already have issues WITHOUT those UAS in the mix. So we need to do a REAL look into how we can fix the entire system.

It's ****ty that an accident like this may finally be the catalyst to that change, but maybe some good can come of the accident.

Kenneth_2003 said:

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375 would absolutely be high. Heck 250 is too high!
Imagery and map overlays on YouTube also suggest that were west of the Route 4 track. Also bad.

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I'd argue that underneath short final, even 200 ft is too high. Even if the Helo was on route and on altitude, separation would have been 200 ft or less...not acceptable.

Ok.
You do understand they are training there for a reason. The reason being, that UH-60 (and others) and its crew (and others) transports VIPs (both civilian and military officers) in THAT airspace.
That airspace has well established procedures and routes as has been said. Those crews need to learn them rather than train in some rural area then go transport VIPs in HERE, agreed?

So how about the resources you mentioned.

Take a look at how many heliports and facilities served by helicopters there are all around DCA in the simple google map image below. Is it going to be less costly to remove those? Some of those are bases and these helicopters travel from one to another. Then, of course, you have the Pentagin right next to the airport basically.

None of this negates the fact that if people follow the well established procedures, it's not an issue.

It's interesting that CW2 Eaves was Navy, then went Army in 2017. I don't expect that to have any impact on the incident, though.

NTSB press briefing going on right now. I'm busy at the moment so I can't watch and summarize it.

How is this possible!?!

pic.twitter.com/vahNzteaR7

— Benny Johnson (@bennyjohnson) January 31, 2025

Potomac Mid Air UPDATE 1/30/25

Nothing new,but this guy does a good job of going over the incedent / evidence quickly.

He also updates.

Rapier108 said:

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NTSB press briefing going on right now. I'm busy at the moment so I can't watch and summarize it.

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Family of victims are on site and are being briefed

Two main debris fields, one for each aircraft

Salvage operations have begun

All "black boxes" from both aircraft have been recovered in good condition

ATC controller on duty is being interviewed

NTSB will not release any names (this is standard practice); all identity releases will come from other agencies

Accident should not have happened; all other conclusions are pending investigation

As someone pointed out earlier, it's a 2-dimensional video of a 3-dimension accident

It's going to look weird, no nefarious interpretation is discernable.

Nice work. Thank you.