****Western Conference Finals - Spurs vs. Thunder****

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GatorAg03
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9:15a, 5/27/14
AG
Wow, we have the Mavs fans coming in for a surprise appearance.

The Spurs are notorius for attacking the basket and shooting threes. The vast majority of its shots fit in those two categories. Tony and Manu attack the basket, Duncan works the low post and then the three point shooters bomb away. They always shoot a good number of FTs.

The Spurs defense emphasizes contesting shots without fouling. You can look at the data and you will see the Spurs rarely shoot less free throws by a large margin than their opponent. There is a reason for this. It is because they are disciplined and practice playing defense in this way.

If the refs call a game consistently then the Spurs will almost always get about equal or more free throws then their opponents as they rightfully should.

Let's look at the post season. The Spurs have shot more free throws than their opponent 10 out of 15 games. Besides the huge outlier on Sunday, the Spurs never shot less than 6 free throws than their opponent. Again, the trends hold because that is the way the Spurs design their offense and defense.

Now on Sunday the Spurs shot 14 less free throws than the Thunder with the discrepancy being much worse if you take out the garbage time or look at the 3rd Qtr.

All the Spurs want is an equally called game and they will win the majority. There was no reason for the disparity on Sunday and I doubt it happens again. It was a huge outlier, based on the data. Keep crying Mavs fans, though. I am sure OKC doesn't mind you living through them.
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AgAllStar91
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9:20a, 5/27/14
I thought the Spurs were near the bottom of the league in FTs attempted
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Guitarsoup
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9:23a, 5/27/14
AG
Spurs are at the bottom in opponents FTA. OKC's opponents shot the sixth most FTs.
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Chipotlemonger
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9:27a, 5/27/14
AG
good post AggieBusDriver.

Don't know whether to give it a thumbs up, or get my tin foil ready. Think I'll do both :/
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Brian Earl Spilner
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9:32a, 5/27/14
AG
I will say this, last two times the Spurs lost in these playoffs, they went into full rape mode. I think it happens again.
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tmaggie50
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9:57a, 5/27/14
AG
I dont have the exact numbers, but the free throw shots were very close until late in the 2nd qtr. The game was back and forth, and then the Thunder went on a streak of about 20-22 free throws, in that amount of time, the Thunder pushed the lead to about... 20 points, around 104-84. Shocking.

This felt similar to the series a long time ago when Dirk shot about 48 Free throws in 1 game to beat the Spurs
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Old Army Metal
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10:11a, 5/27/14
AG
quote:
Put your tin foil hats on now:

Referees for Game 4:
Joe Crawford
Mike Callahan
Jason Phillips


I thought Joey Crawford's reputation was that he favored road teams? This might be a good thing,
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Knife_Party
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10:15a, 5/27/14
So Ibaka was limping around in Game 3 and played 30 minutes. Think he can go on playing like that every other day for the rest of the series?
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tmaggie50
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10:24a, 5/27/14
AG
People in here are saying that the spurs didnt play their game and were off in game 3. I agree, they werent hitting on all cylinders. But lets not forget, the spurs team that is hitting on all cylinders will run any team out of the building. They dont need their absolute best every night to beat the Thunder. They were playing very sporadic and inconsistent through the 1st half and were even leading with about 3:30 left.

The spurs game is about pace, getting up and down the court, and moving the ball. The free throws killed us, and not just because it was BS free points forf the Thunder. When you have free throws, you lose to opportunity for pushing the ball up the court off of rebounds. The Spurs THRIVE off of this. Their offense was out of sink quite often because they never got the play at any pace. So much offense is creating when everyone on the court is sprinting back and the ball is immediately moving all across the court. It creates passing and driving lanes. This to me was just as much of a difference in the game as the actual free points the Thunder were given.

In all sports, 1 or 2 calls can make a big difference, but thats usually because in other sports there are a few HUGE plays that can alter a game and there are less frequent penalties.

In basketball, the refs may blow their whistle 40+ times every night. In those 40 calls, I find it very hard to believe that it wouldnt alsmot always be somewhat even in free throw attempts. For a game to get this far one sided is pretty unbelievable.
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Birdwatcher
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10:26a, 5/27/14
AG
As a neutral fan, I'd much rather see an OKC-MIA matchup rather than SAS-MIA. Athletic teams like OKC & MIA tend to give finesse teams like the spurs major issues.
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Obi Wan Ginobili
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10:28a, 5/27/14
Ibaka is doing his best Paul Pierce in a wheel chair impression. He's fine, but if he winces and limps around enough, it will get his teammates and the crowd pumped up. It's the same **** Ben Roethlesburger pulls every single game. I've never seen someone need attention more than him.
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nbbob
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10:28a, 5/27/14
Maybe the Thunder defense, including the best defender in the nba, had something to do with it?
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aggie93
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10:33a, 5/27/14
AG
This is so true. I mean it is so much better to watch teams play hero ball and flop in the lane so we can watch FT shooting contests with an occasional great play. I love watching Westbrook dribble at the 3 point line until 5 seconds are left in the shot clock so he can try to muscle in for a panic shot and pray for a bail out from the officials, what could be more entertaining?

Who wants to watch a team pass the ball for good shots and play games with minimal turnovers and fouls. I mean fast games with high degrees of skill that all 5 players get involved is so boring, it is way cooler to watch someone try to play Superman and if they are off the officials can bail them out anyway. Maybe we can just automatically allow teams with superstars to get FT's every time they miss a shot anyway so they can put up better stats, that would rock.
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Chipotlemonger
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10:33a, 5/27/14
AG
Fahrenheit - fans like you are what's wrong with the NBA nowadays. "Me Me Me" and a bunch of ****ty teams with just some superstars running iso. Some acrobatics and a few post-up 3's and you're all happy. No heed to ball movement and team work.

(Semi-related note: Played 4v4 half court yesterday. My team had a play where the ball was passed between all 4 of us pretty rapidly. Teammate dished me the ball when the left side of the paint was closed up, and I felt like Timmy getting the subsequent layup from under the basket. Guy goes "we looked like the Spurs right there." As a Spurs fan, that was pretty cool.)

[This message has been edited by Chipotlemonger (edited 5/27/2014 9:33a).]
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Chipotlemonger
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10:34a, 5/27/14
AG
aggie93
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Birdwatcher
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10:42a, 5/27/14
AG
The NBA is all about the superstars and always will be. The amount of $ they generate for the league from jersey sales, endorsements, etc is a huge contributing factor in the league being pressured to see a Finals matchup between league superstars (Durant vs LeBron). The NFL is quite the opposite.
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Ulrich
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11:20a, 5/27/14
quote:
I dont have the exact numbers, but the free throw shots were very close until late in the 2nd qtr. The game was back and forth, and then the Thunder went on a streak of about 20-22 free throws, in that amount of time, the Thunder pushed the lead to about... 20 points, around 104-84. Shocking.

I posted the numbers Sunday night. The Spurs went 24:14 without a free throw from late in the 2nd to late in the fourth. In that 24:14, the Thunder shot 29 free throws and the score swung by 27 from Spurs +7 to OKC +20.
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jr15aggie
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11:35a, 5/27/14
AG
quote:
I posted the numbers Sunday night. The Spurs went 24:14 without a free throw from late in the 2nd to late in the fourth. In that 24:14, the Thunder shot 29 free throws and the score swung by 27 from Spurs +7 to OKC +20.


Ugh! That's so frustrating.
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Chipotlemonger
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11:46a, 5/27/14
AG
GD IT
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Ganondorf
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12:06p, 5/27/14
AG
quote:
I dont have the exact numbers, but the free throw shots were very close until late in the 2nd qtr.


This is correct. The Spurs were 6/7 and the Thunder 7/7 or 7/8 before the FT barrage.
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TheDino
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12:19p, 5/27/14
AG
Spurs by 7 tonight. 108-101.

Lets do it!
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mAgnoliAg
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12:21p, 5/27/14
AG
103-101 OKC
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Frok
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12:21p, 5/27/14
AG
They shot a total of 31 free throws. So how then did they shoot 29 during that stretch and end up with only 31. Someone's numbers are incorrect.
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Natasha Romanoff
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12:27p, 5/27/14
quote:
The NBA is all about the superstars and always will be. The amount of $ they generate for the league from jersey sales, endorsements, etc is a huge contributing factor in the league being pressured to see a Finals matchup between league superstars (Durant vs LeBron). The NFL is quite the opposite.


I completely disagree. It's incredibly boring to watch the same player just stand and dribble for the majority of the shot clock to then shoot a jumper or drive for a layup. The Spurs did this in the first few games of the Dallas series and it was just frustrating and boring to watch.

Stars may generate jersey sales, but they don't generate interest in the game being played because it is boring to watch a 48 min game for the slight chance that a star has a nifty dunk - just like it's boring for most Americans to watch a soccer match for the chance of a cool goal. If a game is fast paced, creative, high scoring, team oriented I bet most people find that more entertaining than KD/Westbrook dribbling around for 20 secs and lobbing up a jumper.
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aggiespursfan
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12:28p, 5/27/14
AG
You can say you want to see whoever in The Finals... But if you're interested in watching a series instead of a complete beat down, then you shouldn't want OKC vs Miami. That series goes 5. I'll give you a guess who wins.
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Natasha Romanoff
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12:29p, 5/27/14
Edit: answered below

[This message has been edited by Natasha Romanoff (edited 5/27/2014 11:37a).]
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Ag with kids
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12:35p, 5/27/14
AG
quote:
They shot a total of 31 free throws. So how then did they shoot 29 during that stretch and end up with only 31. Someone's numbers are incorrect.


When the spurs FT drought started, SA was 6-7 in FTs and OKD was 2-2...

So, from 3:20 left on the 2nd until 3:06 left in the 4th, the spurs were 0-0 in FTs and OKD was 24-29...

Then in the last 3:06 of the game, the Spurs were 9-9 and OKD was 0-0...

[This message has been edited by Ag with kids (edited 5/27/2014 11:40a).]
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Ulrich
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12:36p, 5/27/14
Full game free throws:
Thunder shot 2 straight
Spurs shot 7 straight
Thunder shot 29 straight
Spurs shot 9 straight

The 6/7 vs 7/7 or whatever it was was partway into the Thunder's huge free throw run.
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GatorAg03
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12:38p, 5/27/14
AG
I think tonights game is finally a close one. The Spurs haven't played in a close game since game 6 against Dallas. Tonight is a big one for both teams. OKC needs this one or their season is pretty much over and San Antonio needs to shorten the series since it looks like the Heat will wrap up the Pacers early.

I predict the Spurs get it done 107-103.
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Ulrich
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12:39p, 5/27/14
I don't think it really got stupid until the second half. The Spurs came out forcing the issue and drew some calls. The Thunder adjusted back and did the same. Basically a draw in the first half with each team earning some trips and maybe getting a couple bad calls. Then in the second half the Thunder got virtually every call whether it was there or not. Once the game was over, the backups got free throws on something like 5 out of 6 possessions to "even up" the free throw disparity at 31:16.
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aggie93
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12:48p, 5/27/14
AG
The Spurs will never get the benefit of the doubt with the officials in spite of having 3 HOF'ers on the roster, that's just how it is. They just have to play that much better and overcome it.

I don't know how anyone can say a basketball game with around 50 FT's in it is exciting to watch though. I will take a fast paced game with great passing, fast breaks, and steals anyday over hero ball. It's nice on occasion to see a player get hot and take over a game but the obsession with it really hurts the product.

I hate hearing stuff like "Player X is off tonight. He needs to just drive the lane and get to the line so he can get in rhythm." That's not even basketball to me. The goal should be getting open shots to avoid other players and on the other end to avoid causing fouls but playing good defense. That makes for something entertaining to watch rather than just watching guys stand around as they wait for their chance to shoot from the line and players have to sit on the bench due to foul trouble.

BTW, this isn't just a Spurs thing. I don't like it when Manu used to play hero ball and occasionally he still does. I understood when people used to rag on the Spurs as well for just running "4 Down" to Duncan on 50% of their possessions. The tough balance is to find teams that can play wide open but also disciplined and under control, still if the emphasis was there instead of hero ball the quality of the NBA product would be much, much better.
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GatorAg03
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1:02p, 5/27/14
AG
I mentioned this idea on the ref thread, but I think an automated panel for officiating would solve a ton of the NBAs problems. With the technology you have available now you could have established camera angles at designated angles just like the current NBA refs are capable of seeing.

Then have a designated number of officials per camera angle and everyone votes on every call. If a certain percentage say 60% of the officials vote for it being a foul, travel, out of bounds, etc then an automated whistle blows to stop the play.

Then have one or two officials actually on the floor to basically deal with ball placement. This would keep the refs from getting influenced/intimidated by the home crowd, game situation, all star player, etc. They wouldn't even need to see the game clock or score. They would simply be calling the game as fairly as they see it and graded on their consistency.

This also would keep all the griping and complaining down to a minimum as there would be nobody to complain to. Then have the panelists graded out so you constantly improve and find the right guys that consistently call it evenly. You would have all the data needed to ensure you kept the most consistent officials.

You may lose a small amount where a human at an ideal angle can see something that a camera can't, but those few instances and the overall fairness and consistency would greatly outweigh the negatives. Overall you would probably get less fouls and stoppage of play and you would defenitely get a more even experience. The best part is you wouldn't have to go into each game scouting the officials as much as the team.
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mAgnoliAg
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1:03p, 5/27/14
AG
Y'all talk about us *****ing. Good Lord, give it a rest
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aggiespursfan
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1:04p, 5/27/14
AG
Can we just put all of this free throw nonsense to rest? Our team is a no excuse team. We're starting to sound like Mavs fans. We lost game 3. We were outplayed, and OKC deserved to win. And GO SPURS GO!
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jdaville
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1:13p, 5/27/14
AG
Wow Spurs fans. Relax.

Officials play no part in the game...unless your team loses! Free throw disparities only count when it is not in your favor, right?

Seriously...the most homer fans in any sport, by far! That so many of you actually believe that you have "overcome" officiating to win your titles is mind exploding. Surely you can't be serious....but you actually are!!

The Spurs will be fine. They will win the series.
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