The casting of Page as Achilles reminds me of that meme out there where somebody wants to see a movie made about the CIA trying to kill Clark Kent. Not because he is Superman (they don't know that) but because he is a reporter working on a story harmful to them. They just keep trying and trying and can't figure out why they keep failing.

Maybe that is what Nolan is doing here. The enemy looks at Page's Achilles and simply cannot figure out why they can't beat her. Sorry....him. They don't know she...sorry, he...has been blessed entirely (almost) by the Gods. It provides comic relief.

Eventually, everyone gets tired of arguing in circles.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

---

Peter Piper said:

---

Where's Cliff? Where's TC?

Did the mods tell them to take it easy?

---

They finally re-merged in The Narrator's concious.

---

This is so perfect.

But yes, as Lathspell said, I grew tired of arguing in circles. Especially with someone who constantly argues in bad faith, puts himself above me morally (while engaging in the exact same tactics that apparently make me so bad), ignores literal/provable facts, etc.

Regardless, it's time to let the movie speak for itself.

agdoc2001 said:

---

In response to Maruder:

Fitzgerald's version is the one I read in high school initially. It's more readable than some other translations, but occasionally uses colloquial expressions which feel a bit out of place.

If you are looking for a more scholarly and accurate translation, read Lattimore.

If you prefer a *******ization of the work by a feminist activist, by all means, read WIlson.

---

Thank you too. Just noticed your response.

Willing to give Nolan the benefit of the doubt on his casting decisions. And make final determination after the movie is released,

BUT,

The one that I will never understand is is Ellen--->Elliot Page being cast for anything on this movie, much less Achilles. Should not be part of it at all. Maybe on a Odyssey parody...

As with the Odyssey, we need to look to origin, and how much has been taken from BIPOC.

Clarence Williams, a Black musician, producer and performer testified in the Kane v. Fleischer trial that he'd been scat-singing since 1915. Throughout the 1920s, Black performers including Gertrude Saunders, Florence Mills, and Baby Esther Jones used the technique and mannerisms.

I don't care what anyone says, this is beauty worthy of Helen of Troy...

First look at Lupita Nyong’o in ‘THE ODYSSEY’

She plays Helen of Troy and Clytemnestra. pic.twitter.com/8BrKc9uimW

— Cinema Solace (@SolaceCinema) May 21, 2026

Lupita Nyong’o addresses the racist backlash to her casting as Helen of Troy in “The Odyssey,” after some critics called Christopher Nolan a “coward” for not casting a white actress:

“This is a mythological story,” Nyong’o said in an interview. "I’m very supportive of Chris’… pic.twitter.com/oYNavMtrRY

— Variety (@Variety) May 21, 2026

Quote:

---

Lupita Nyong'o addresses the racist backlash to her casting as Helen of Troy in "The Odyssey," after some critics called Christopher Nolan a "coward" for not casting a white actress:

"This is a mythological story," Nyong'o said in an interview. "I'm very supportive of Chris' intention with it and with the version of this story that he is telling. Our cast is representative of the world. I'm not spending my time thinking of a defense. The criticism will exist whether I engage with it or not."

Nyong'o said her interpretation of the character goes deeper than her beauty. "You can't perform beauty," she said. "I want to know who a character is. What is beyond beauty? What is beyond looks? That's the thing about doing such a well-known text, which has been studied and interpreted and derived from. The research could be endless. The good thing about working with a writer like Chris is that it's on the page. The investigation starts with the pages you're given. That's what I based it on."

---

so the cast is meant to feel modern on purpose as a part of the directors vision wow who wouldve thought you could put your own spin on the source material as a creative https://t.co/3bjQuQNpmc

— doctor idk (@bigmonkeong) May 21, 2026

The women of ‘THE ODYSSEY’ cover Elle Magazine.

📸: Norman Jean Roy pic.twitter.com/yA2s94NBPl

— Film Updates (@FilmUpdates) May 21, 2026

zendaya for elle magazine's the epic issue: women of the odyssey, photographed by norman jean roy pic.twitter.com/Lx3gBDO30a

— ❦ (@modelsdiaryy) May 21, 2026

Anne Hathaway as Water for ELLE (Summer 2026) - Women of The Odyssey

Photographer: Norman Jean Roy
Stylist: Law Roach
Hair: Orlando Pita - Orlo Salon
Makeup: Fulvia Farolfi - Ma+ Group pic.twitter.com/aB0GKP7bZh

— Peekaboo (@PeekabooReview) May 21, 2026

Lupita Nyong'o as Fire for ELLE (Summer 2026) - Women of The Odyssey

Photographer: Norman Jean Roy
Stylist: Law Roach
Hair: Vernon François - @olaplex
Makeup: Nick Barose - @CHANEL pic.twitter.com/Kv4m4Y1EJU

— Peekaboo (@PeekabooReview) May 21, 2026

Charlize Theron as Air for ELLE (Summer 2026) - Women of The Odyssey

Photographer: Norman Jean Roy
Stylist: Law Roach
Hair: Coree Moreno - @oribe
Makeup: Ernesto Casillas - @Prada pic.twitter.com/Jkz6QatM33

— Peekaboo (@PeekabooReview) May 21, 2026

Matt Damon recalls him & Tom Holland getting jealous of Christopher Nolan calling Zendaya's performance perfect on ‘THE ODYSSEY’ set.

“Tom [Holland] and I were obsessed with this. She got a ‘perfect’? I’ve never even gotten a ‘great.’ She got a ‘perfect’?

He and I bitched… pic.twitter.com/3QZBpW7rum

— DiscussingFilm (@DiscussingFilm) May 21, 2026

Quote:

---

Matt Damon recalls him & Tom Holland getting jealous of Christopher Nolan calling Zendaya's performance perfect on 'THE ODYSSEY' set.

"Tom [Holland] and I were obsessed with this. She got a 'perfect'? I've never even gotten a 'great.' She got a 'perfect'?

He and I *****ed about it for the entire rest of the film. 'Did you get anything today?' No, I got a 'good, moving on' 'Yeah, me too.'"

---

🚨OFFICIAL: THE ODYSSEY has a runtime of 2 hours and 52 minutes, as just revealed by IMAX. pic.twitter.com/RthD7JtB9o

— Nolan Archives (@NolanAnalyst) May 21, 2026

2 hours 52 minutes, maybe I will just watch it on the Vision Pro

bonfarr said:

---

Redstone said:

---

As with the Odyssey, we need to look to origin, and how much has been taken from BIPOC.

Clarence Williams, a Black musician, producer and performer testified in the Kane v. Fleischer trial that he'd been scat-singing since 1915. Throughout the 1920s, Black performers including Gertrude Saunders, Florence Mills, and Baby Esther Jones used the technique and mannerisms.

---

Can't wait for an Elvis biopic starring Jamie Foxx.

---

I think Eminem covered it best,
"Though I'm not the first king of controversy, I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley / To do Black music so selfishly and use it to get myself wealthy."

An Elvis biopic with Jaime Foxx could be amazing if done right.

TCTTS said:

---

FL_Ag1998 said:

---

TCTTS said:

---

Lupita Nyong’o addresses the racist backlash to her casting as Helen of Troy in “The Odyssey,” after some critics called Christopher Nolan a “coward” for not casting a white actress:

“This is a mythological story,” Nyong’o said in an interview. "I’m very supportive of Chris’… pic.twitter.com/oYNavMtrRY

— Variety (@Variety) May 21, 2026

Quote:

---

Lupita Nyong'o addresses the racist backlash to her casting as Helen of Troy in "The Odyssey," after some critics called Christopher Nolan a "coward" for not casting a white actress:

"This is a mythological story," Nyong'o said in an interview. "I'm very supportive of Chris' intention with it and with the version of this story that he is telling. Our cast is representative of the world. I'm not spending my time thinking of a defense. The criticism will exist whether I engage with it or not."

Nyong'o said her interpretation of the character goes deeper than her beauty. "You can't perform beauty," she said. "I want to know who a character is. What is beyond beauty? What is beyond looks? That's the thing about doing such a well-known text, which has been studied and interpreted and derived from. The research could be endless. The good thing about working with a writer like Chris is that it's on the page. The investigation starts with the pages you're given. That's what I based it on."

---

so the cast is meant to feel modern on purpose as a part of the directors vision wow who wouldve thought you could put your own spin on the source material as a creative https://t.co/3bjQuQNpmc

— doctor idk (@bigmonkeong) May 21, 2026

---

TC, the one exception I take with is that particular dumba** X post with the super sarcastic putdown of anyone who would dare prefer to see a classic retelling of the story rather than a modern take on it. Everyone knows that its possible to retell a classic story with a modern twist - hollywood literally does it all. the. time. Nolan choosing to do it here and now is just disappointing because The Odyssey is THE classic mythological adventure that we haven't truly seen on the big screen. Most of the criticism I've seen on YouTube relates to that aspect of Nolan's choices. It just seems like Nolan's choice to do a modern spin on it is turning off quite a few members of the potential audience.

---

I hear you.

However...

- While "prefer[ing] to see a classic retelling of the story" is completely understandable, from what I've seen, that kind of rational expression hasn't been the most vocal one at all. Rather, it's been a DEMAND that it HAS to honor history perfectly, and because it doesn't Nolan is WOKE, etc. There's a differences between "I wish it would have been done this way" as opposed to "HELEN CAN'T BE BLACK!!! HOLLYWOOD AND THEIR DEI AGENDA ARRRGH!!!"

- While the marketing for Nolan's choices is turning some people off, yes, I don't think it's going to matter in the least box office-wise. This is still the most in-demand ticket of the year. And word is starting to leak that it's legit great. If so, it's going to be a juggernaut regardless of what certain opinions are two months out.

---

Oh, I don't think it'll have a great effect on the box office either. Even the current haters will likely see it, the better to b*tch about it online. I mean, sure they'll stay home from Disney's Snow White, but no way will they stay home from Nolan doing The Odyssey.

At the risk of talking about the actual film, I watched the trailer on Imax last night, and I think what's actually bugging me is that Matt Damon seems little boring for the main role. I really like him and have seen loads of his movies, but it feels like Odysseus should be an extremely emotional role. Damon seems to excel at charm, earnestness, and humor. I think Odysseus should be more haggard and sinewy looking given the nature of the journey.

I'm not sure who I would have cast instead. Christian Bale could do the acting, but he's such a Nolan guy it would be hard to detach him from his Batman character. A performance in line with Ethan Hawke in the Northman is maybe what I'm thinking about.

Tom Holland's casting also feels like a distraction, although that might just be that I've never seen him in anything but Spiderman. He's a great Peter Parker, but I have no idea if he can do anything else.

I think the roles I'm most excited to see at Pattison as Antinous and Charlize Theron as Calypso.

Also if you guys want to fly into a rage again, the casting list says there's a Korean guy named Wil Yun Lee in the cast as another of Odysseus's crew members, paying homage to the long-standing ancient alliance between Greece and Korea that existed in those days.

You can be very against DEI but still have no issue with Nolan's casting or any multi ethnic casting in fictional tales.