*** THE ODYSSEY *** (Christopher Nolan)

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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

hunter2012 said:

TCTTS said:

People may not "need" to see someone who looks like them, but for many it does seem to help them connect more sometimes.

Ironic that the miscasting has made me "disconnected", if they had tried to make it historical accurate I would have probably seen it multiple times. I doubt the "connected" people would want to do that but fortunately my seat is available for them.
I am leaning in this direction as well. I rank Christopher Nolan as among the best ever, and have seen all of his movies in a theater starting with Batman Begins. The Odyssey is likely going to be one that I will listen to/read responses to the actual movie before I go see it.


And if you do that I think it will be one you have to wait out the first couple of weeks of reviews so you can get a true picture. First few days you are going to have fan boys and rage baiters out in force. Will need to let it calm down a bit most likely.

I think we are going to go see this in IMAX simply because we haven't been to a movie in over a year and the big spectacles are best for that.
FL_Ag1998
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YouBet said:

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

hunter2012 said:

TCTTS said:

People may not "need" to see someone who looks like them, but for many it does seem to help them connect more sometimes.

Ironic that the miscasting has made me "disconnected", if they had tried to make it historical accurate I would have probably seen it multiple times. I doubt the "connected" people would want to do that but fortunately my seat is available for them.
I am leaning in this direction as well. I rank Christopher Nolan as among the best ever, and have seen all of his movies in a theater starting with Batman Begins. The Odyssey is likely going to be one that I will listen to/read responses to the actual movie before I go see it.


And if you do that I think it will be one you have to wait out the first couple of weeks of reviews so you can get a true picture. First few days you are going to have fan boys and rage baiters out in force. Will need to let it calm down a bit most likely.

I think we are going to go see this in IMAX simply because we haven't been to a movie in over a year and the big spectacles are best for that.


Lol, oh without a doubt RT and IMDB will be hammered with bogus audience reviews for this movie. Just pick the online/youtube reviewer(s) you respect then listen to their opinion on the movie and ignore the RT and IMDB scores
YouBet
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FL_Ag1998 said:

YouBet said:

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

hunter2012 said:

TCTTS said:

People may not "need" to see someone who looks like them, but for many it does seem to help them connect more sometimes.

Ironic that the miscasting has made me "disconnected", if they had tried to make it historical accurate I would have probably seen it multiple times. I doubt the "connected" people would want to do that but fortunately my seat is available for them.
I am leaning in this direction as well. I rank Christopher Nolan as among the best ever, and have seen all of his movies in a theater starting with Batman Begins. The Odyssey is likely going to be one that I will listen to/read responses to the actual movie before I go see it.


And if you do that I think it will be one you have to wait out the first couple of weeks of reviews so you can get a true picture. First few days you are going to have fan boys and rage baiters out in force. Will need to let it calm down a bit most likely.

I think we are going to go see this in IMAX simply because we haven't been to a movie in over a year and the big spectacles are best for that.


Lol, oh without a doubt RT and IMDB will be hammered with bogus audience reviews for this movie. Just pick the online/youtube reviewer(s) you respect then listen to their opinion on the movie and ignore the RT and IMDB scores


RT is clown world. IMDB much more reliable over time, at least.
FL_Ag1998
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veryfuller said:

Except its not clear based on the other statements that is what he wanted at all. Its just what you WANT to infer.

I have said this before on this thread, but Nolan put limits on another of his scores in the past -- Interstellar. He didn't want percussion, which is kind of a crazy thing for a filmmaker to limit in a space score, but he felt like that had been done to death. We got an all-timer score because of that choice with organs being the centerpiece.

He is making a swords and sandals epic and there are MANY of those with amazing orchestral scores. I think he is just reaching for something new in his limitation, and he is working with a composer who can surely pull it off.

Also, the critique of him being all over the place can be said of those who are critiquing the movie. The gatekeeping on what is historically accurate or what needs to be for this to be a good adaptation (site unseen) is all over the place as well. I can't keep up.





Except this particular point about the score is not just my interpretation. From the articles, this is what the composer says....

Quote:

Chris had mentioned earlier that he was interested in aulos. He was interested in lyre… Another thing that Chris mentioned too early in our conversations was to use bronze. You know, this is the Bronze Age. So gongs, for example, made of bronze. You can make these instruments sound the way you never heard them before.


It's not a controversial point, stating that he wants the score to be period-authentic. The composer makes that clear. But it can be used in other arguments that might be controversial when you start discussing his intention with this movie.

To your second point, for those of us who yearn for period accuracy with this movie, what have we been inconsistent with?

veryfuller
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Round and round we go. I think Nolan has more than earned the benefit of the doubt on making movies the way he wants and their ability to deliver. The inconsistency from the critique you and others are making is that you want it to be historically accurate in the way you want it to be. The score being accurate, as you interpret those comments to mean, is annoying to you, however. Which is inconsistent.

I'll wait till the movie comes out to engage any of this critique anymore. We all have no idea what we are talking about. Its just speculation and over inferring from press what the movie actually is.
FL_Ag1998
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veryfuller said:

Round and round we go. I think Nolan has more than earned the benefit of the doubt on making movies the way he wants and their ability to deliver. The inconsistency from the critique you and others are making is that you want it to be historically accurate in the way you want it to be. The score being accurate, as you interpret those comments to mean, is annoying to you, however. Which is inconsistent.

I'll wait till the movie comes out to engage any of this critique anymore. We all have no idea what we are talking about. Its just speculation and over inferring from press what the movie actually is.


Correct, round and round we go. That's because you're simply refusing to take the very clear statements about the score on their full face value, because that would mean you would have to concede this particular point.

And when I ask for specifics about the inconsistencies in our historical accuracy arguments you can't point to one specific inconsistency and instead resort to a very generalized accusation that we're just being inconsistent and you don't want to discuss it any more.

So, as I've said in several posts I agree to judge the movie on its own merits when its released - I've loved so many Nolan movies I have no problem with that. And we'll just agree to disagree on the other extraneous "nonsense" surrounding the movie right now.
FL_Ag1998
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TCTTS said:

FL_Ag1998 said:

If the sole reason for the diversity of the cast is to reap bigger profits, then that's

1) still racist no matter how politely and softly its phrased because its still built on the assumption that non-white people can only relate to people who look like them, and

2) sad that for some extra money in their pockets (supposedly due to appealing to a more diverse audience) filmakers and execs have decided not only to alter stories along racial lines but in the process promote racism by telling their audience "We view you primarily by your skin tone and in turn have made assumptions about what you like based purely on your skin tone." Because that's literally the argument they're making - "Hey black people, we know if we cast a couple of black people in this movie you'll flock to see it, so we cast a couple!".


AGAIN, there is NO assumption that non-white people can ONLY relate to people who look like them. That's an argument/framing that YOU'RE injecting. Like I just got done saying...

Quote:

Also, it's not that Nolan believes people CAN'T "relate to other human beings based on whether they are the same skin color as themselves," it's that he believes the movie has a better chance of connecting to more people if more types of people are reflected back to the audience.

There's a difference.


And there IS a difference.

As for your second point, that's... literally how capitalism works. For the most part, every company wants the maximum amount of people/demographics to buy their products. It's why various commercials/products cater to as many different people - and types of people - as possible. But for some reason it's suddenly bad when Hollywood does it?


To your point about capitalism, clearly it works by bringing in as many customers as possible. But there are also many examples of brands who have damaged themselves and some who have completely faltered and died by trying to expand their appeal to wide customer bases, and in the process losing the original customer base that they built that brand on. Its not always a good thing for a company to try to grab every single market possible. That's actually not strategic thinking.

And this is movie-making, not burger-making or computer-making or phone-making or anything else. McDonald's isn't watering down their product by prioritizing diversity in their advertising. But I believe that hollywood (lumping it all together for the sake of the argument) does in fact water down their product when they unnecessarily prioritize diversity in casting some of their products. Not every product movie of course, as most movies truly aren't affected by the race of the actors. But some characters and plotlines are absolutely affected by it.

Will it pay off in more tickets sales? Maybe. So, bravo for the beancounters at the studios I guess and the bonuses of the execs, it's just a shame for the integrity of the product. Because I truly do separate art (movies tv shows, etc) from consumer products and wish the hollywood execs would too, I guess.

Finally, take a look at some of the long-running franchises who decided in the past decade or so to prioritize racial and sexual diversity in their storytelling to bring in a wider audience, only to end up flaundering horribly and jeopardizing their future....Star Trek, Doctor Who, Star Wars, hell, Lord of the Rings, for some examples.
veryfuller
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I just gave you a specific example.

I also don't concede that Nolan is wanting the score to be "historically accurate", because that's not how I interpret that interview at all. I see it as Nolan wanting it to be unique and tie to the region and giving instruction to his composer, who then takes those instructions and builds his own kind of narrative on the hows/whys as he is making the score, which is what that interview conveys to me.

But I also don't care either way, because I trust that he can pick and choose what he wants to make accurate or not. Its no skin off my back. Its an adaptation. I am just pointing out, regardless of whether they are intentionally making the score accurate or not, you are painting it as a negative when also complaining that other things are NOT accurate. One would think you would be applauding a score that is historically accurate.

And my lack of desire on engagement is because it seems like there is a segment of people who have just decided to not like the movie, so every piece of promotion is analyzed to fit into the theory that the movie is going to be bad. And I wish we could just wait and see before building a whole narrative around a movie no one has seen yet.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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YouBet said:

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

hunter2012 said:

TCTTS said:

People may not "need" to see someone who looks like them, but for many it does seem to help them connect more sometimes.

Ironic that the miscasting has made me "disconnected", if they had tried to make it historical accurate I would have probably seen it multiple times. I doubt the "connected" people would want to do that but fortunately my seat is available for them.

I am leaning in this direction as well. I rank Christopher Nolan as among the best ever, and have seen all of his movies in a theater starting with Batman Begins. The Odyssey is likely going to be one that I will listen to/read responses to the actual movie before I go see it.


And if you do that I think it will be one you have to wait out the first couple of weeks of reviews so you can get a true picture. First few days you are going to have fan boys and rage baiters out in force. Will need to let it calm down a bit most likely.

I think we are going to go see this in IMAX simply because we haven't been to a movie in over a year and the big spectacles are best for that.

Yeah, I get that. I'll probably be looking for responses from posters here more than anywhere else. And I'm fine waiting, maybe even to a digital release a few months from now. And I know, it's not the same at home as in the theater. The controversies over this movie have simply been exhausting - one side making statements about casting or music, the other side claiming none of that matters. Ugh. I'm sick of that kind of crap. People are entitled to voice their opinions just as filmmakers are entitled to make their movies as they see fit. But the back-and-forth is just so tiring.

It's interesting to me that for this particular movie, the stuff I just described has largely thrown a wet blanket on my desire to even see the movie, at least for the first few weeks after it comes out.

And to the other poster that states that Nolan has earned the right to do as he pleases - I agree. He has undoubtedly made some all-time greats. His movies have tended to be about something that I am interested in - The Dark Knight series (Batman), Dunkirk (WWII), Interstellar (space travel), Oppenheimer (WWII) - but having somehow gotten through high school without reading the original work, I haven't been particularly drawn to this movie as it was; throw in all this controversy and I am finding myself giving less of a crap about it.
FL_Ag1998
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I never stated that Nolan's approach to the score is a negative. I'm actually interested to hear it now after reading more about the approach. I was using it as a point about his inconsistency in his approach to the movie as a whole.

But I'll agree with you that we're just not going to agree right now on his approach to the movie, so I will stop beating this particular horse and truly hope that when I see the movie we can agree afterwards that it was awesome and Nolan should never ever be doubted going forward.
 
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