*** THE ODYSSEY *** (Christopher Nolan)

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Ghost of Bisbee
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Ghost of Bisbee
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DannyDuberstein said:

She's miscast because she is both mid as it gets and black. If she was hot and black, she's still miscast. But mid and black is a double-down. I mean, if they had DJ Qualls play Shaft, no one would be going "well, if he was a lot more cool and imposing, it would work." Nope, she is bad for the role because she is black. She is also bad for the role because she is mid. It's okay to say it.


This is all accurate. Similar to what this post is using to make the point.
tk for tu juan
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The most accurate answer is she doesn't have Kelis' milkshake to bring all the boys to the yard. Don't care if she is black, white, Puerto Rican, or Haitian Asian.
TCTTS
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Ghost of Bisbee said:

DannyDuberstein said:

She's miscast because she is both mid as it gets and black. If she was hot and black, she's still miscast. But mid and black is a double-down. I mean, if they had DJ Qualls play Shaft, no one would be going "well, if he was a lot more cool and imposing, it would work." Nope, she is bad for the role because she is black. She is also bad for the role because she is mid. It's okay to say it.


This is all accurate. Similar to what this post is using to make the point.



Y'all can't be serious with this.

Every one of those figures was A) a real person, and B) obviously known/important/famous BECAUSE of their race. Because their race caused them trials and tribulations in some way, or they achieved something because they were the first of their race to do so, etc, etc. So of course no one would ever dream of race swapping the actor portraying them.

In contrast, race plays no part in Helen's character arc/importance in the story, especially in The Odyssey (which she's hardly in) as compared to The Iliad. In other words, a war could have been waged over a beautiful black woman just the same as it could have been waged over a beautiful white woman. Similarly, no one was fighting for her because she was white, or because she was black. Her race is utterly irrelevant from a motivational / trials-and-tribulations standpoint.

Also… they're called minorities for a reason. Because, in this country, there are obviously more white people than there are black people. Thus "race swapping" in an American movie from minority to majority - from historically marginalized to historically dominant - is considered far more morally questionable than the other way around.

Like, this isn't rocket science.
TCTTS
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Speaking of, were some of you this appalled when Jim Caviezel was cast as Jesus, a Middle-Easterner, in The Passion of the Christ? Or was "historical accuracy"/"heritage" conveniently not as important in that particular race swap? If we pulled up the thread for that movie, would we find you guys hemming and hawing just the same over a Middle-Easterner being "replaced" by a white man?
Urban Ag
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Not appalled by any of this but to answer your question, Caviezel was cast well as Jesus. Growing up in the church, his look was pretty squared up with how Jesus was depicted. Dark hair, dark beard, fair to olive skin.



Middle Eastern is not a race, or even an ethnicity, so no swapping to speak of. That entire region had so many people moved through it due to the Greek and Roman Empires, Muslim invasions, the Crusades, the slave trade, etc, The genetic traits of appearance changed greatly. Much of Italy, Spain, and Portgual looked more like Germans at one point than they have the last couple thousand years.

I agree completely with your point that "race swapping" for historical figures is absurd regardless of the majority/minority angle. It's just dumb. Mandela should be played by a black male. Eisenhauer should be played by a white male.

As far as Helen of Troy, I think I just had it in my head that she was a more documented historical figure as opposed to more mythological. Guess I was wrong on that. As I said in a previous post, I think of lot of people just associate the character as "Greek" and find the casting pandering. It's doubtful Homer had ever even seen a black person. But to your point, this is Nolan's adaption of mythology, he's taking it in some new directions, so be it.
TCTTS
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I hear you overall, and genuinely appreciate the level-headed response.

I was simply saying, Jesus was almost assuredly brown-skinned, while Caviezel is not.
Ghost of Bisbee
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What has happened is it's becoming increasingly clear that Nolan is pandering to diversity, unless these are all farfetched lies. Which, they would have been debunked by now I believe if they were not being cast.

Cliff.Booth
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"Almost assuredly"...this dude.

Please look at what men native to the Levant look like. Those that aren't Arab are light to olive skin tones. Look at men from Syria, and Lebanon.

It ultimately doesn't matter what skin color Christ had, but Caviezel wasn't far off enough to be implausible, unlike the majority of Nolan's casting.

These are the same people who will tell you the "Cleopatra was brown because she was from Africa!"
DannyDuberstein
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Exactly. This is an olive-skinned region where the range of how light or dark the olive is varies. At a minimum, Caviezel was in the range.
TCTTS
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You just couldn't help yourself, could you?
DannyDuberstein
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Holy lack of self-awareness, Batman. If that isn't the pot calling the kettle on this board, I have no idea what is
TCTTS
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You'll get over it.
DannyDuberstein
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You clearly won't
TCTTS
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I could not care less what a bunch of online, anti-woke-obsessed, middle-age dudes think of me. Talk all the **** you want, do your usual pile-on, etc. I'm beyond used to it.
DannyDuberstein
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As I was saying…
Ghost of Bisbee
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I don't see anyone ****-talking here. These are just arguments for or against certain casting choices. The last thread I remember with true ****-talking was Sound of Freedom, when the F16 invasion happened
Teslag
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TCTTS said:

I could not care less what a bunch of online, anti-woke-obsessed, middle-age dudes think of me. Talk all the **** you want, do your usual pile-on, etc. I'm beyond used to it.


You obviously don't care. At all.
Langley
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TCTTS said:

I could not care less what a bunch of online, anti-woke-obsessed, middle-age dudes think of me. Talk all the **** you want, do your usual pile-on, etc. I'm beyond used to it.


Hmmm….im sure this thread is exhibit A of you not caring even a smidgeon
TCTTS
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There's a difference between caring what certain people think of me and caring about the endless *****ing/nonsense surrounding the movie. The former: not in the least. The latter: yep.
 
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