Then he should quit. Or get fired. Or fire Wilcox. Or let Wilcox quit. This isn't functional.

The roster is a mess. The coaching is a mess and not working with the players on the roster.

Yeah, this all stems from way before Amorim. It's a direct function of the 10 month period before Amorim was hired but after Ratcliffe bought his minority share when roles were still being filled and responsibilities weren't well defined. Amorim was hired when the structure was still not well defined. There's wasn't a functioning sporting director at the time (Ashworth was there but left soon after...he was probably a dead man walking with little say or influence). Berrada pushed for Amorim. Now Wilcox is the director of football and he in theory wants to establish the vision that Ratcliffe professed to want back when he first bought the club...the whole "establish the identity of the club on the pitch and find players and managers to fit that identity" spiel. His identity likely clashes with Amorim's tactical vision.

I still don't think anything happens in the short term. Unless a bad string of results sends them well out of the top 8 in the next several weeks (and I mean by points, not places), they'll be hyper sensitive to resetting amidst all the recent changes and the preaching of patience. But then that was always the case even before Amorim's comments. Plus I honestly don't see what the immediate issue is. United need central midfielders and the profile that Amorim wants would do just fine in a different system led by a different manager. So there really shouldn't be a problem between Wilcox and Amorim's wishes at the moment...as long as the club is doing somewhat decently.

But if it comes down to a battle between Wilcox's desire for club identity X and Amorim's different desire for tactics Y, then I wouldn't bet on Amorim to win that battle.

I don't know, it depends what you mean by short term, but it is reminiscent of Maresca's press conference where he referenced the length of his contract and expressed disgruntlement. And he referenced Conte and Jose who both expressed disgruntlement and got let go. He isn't going to quit, but he seems to be trying to say, "If you don't want to fire me, fine, but I talk to the press a lot, and I have a lot to say, so buckle up."

I think he wants to be fired, get his payoff, and leave. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think we are about to see Darren Fletcher or Ole or Ruud or Carrick as interim manager in the next two or three weeks.

I think it's happening soon. This all just came to a boil. Amorim must have thought he was going to get to spend money this window and Wilcox shut him down. Now the knives are out.

Also… as a distraction from Amorim… we need an experienced striker to help Sesko and be another option. I don't even need a great one; an old one like Lewandowski or Vardy or someone would be fine for a year in the summer. Ollie Watkins' contract expires in two years, perhaps Villa would sell for a reasonable price in the summer (or perhaps not, but I think they don't have a lot of financial room and probably need sales of some players in the summer).

I guess my thought is if you make this move now, in the middle of the season, you're probably increasing the risk of not qualifying for Europe. The team, for all of its flaws, is currently in 6th and a point out of 5th. Yes, it's a bit of smoke and mirrors and the table is such that they could end the month in the bottom half of the table if they don't start getting more wins. But right now, it would be hard to sell "no realistic chance at European football" as a reason for firing him.

Seemingly, the only legitimate reason to make the move now is because you now want a manager to play a 4-3-3 and a certain style that Amorim can't or won't play. Then you're asking players to learn a new system mid-season, on the fly. The manager you get on an interim basis is likely not a long term solution even if they possess the tactical philosophy you want. He's probably not going to be a high enough quality to get a tune out of the team in a 4-3-3 straight away (non of the obvious interim managers have particularly good resumes).

All of the above is irrelevant if United are 6-8 points out of an EL spot. In that scenario, they probably pull the trigger. But United can't financially afford to miss out on Europe...they've budgeted under the assumption of EL football and bridging that gap for 2 years is going to be a massive hit. My guess is that as long as they are right in the middle of the race for Europe, they won't make a move midseason. But they could easily do at the end of the season if they can't come to a reconciliation even if United qualify for Europe.

Welp. I'll leave that post up as my penance for being as wrong as I've ever been. I'll probably be wrong again but I think this is an extremely bad decision.

Amorim Sacked

And I also add that I'm officially no longer holding out any hope that Ratcliffe and the other leaders know what they **** they are doing.

So…Fletcher is the initial interim.

Let's see if Mainoo gets out of the doghouse.

I've said before that Glasner would be my choice if/when Amorim leaves. He's probably by far the best blend of short term tactics (plays 3 man backline at Palace), long term tactical needs (has played a myriad of formations before Palace and fits his formation to the squad), and cost/availability (contract expires end of the season...highly unlikely to re-sign).

Palace aren't going to want to lose him mid-season while in Europa Conference and trying to work back into a European place. But would a historically cheap club turn down a mid 7 figure offer as comp for a manager they know is leaving at the end of the season? Reports are that City are going to push for Guehi in January due to Gvardiol's injury yesterday. Maybe Palace just completely screws their supporters in the name of cashing in? Sadly for Palace supporters, it would be in keeping with their tradition.

Furlock Bones said:

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I think it's happening soon. This all just came to a boil. Amorim must have thought he was going to get to spend money this window and Wilcox shut him down. Now the knives are out.

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I didn't think soon was a few hours after this post.

Hey, I looked like Nostradamus, including getting Fletcher right. Although I thought it would probably happen after Burnley.

The thing I don't get is this: if the point of disagreement was playing 3-4-3 type system versus 4-3-3… why hire Glassner? Seems like a briefed name drop, but I don't get it. The problem with 3-4-3 is buying wingbacks. If you want attackers, you get the problem we had with Semenyo: they don't want to play there. City runs two attackers on each side of a striker, but they call them 10's and wingers, so it's a lot easier to get players. If you put fullbacks in the role wingback role, you are too defensive for the United fan base's taste (attack attack attack).

Why would Glasner be a bad choice if you want a 4 man backline/4-3-3?

It's the problem I have with most of the scrappy managers at small clubs. I think it's completely different to switch from playing defensively and countering to being in possession and dictating the game. Although in the post-SAF era we've probably been more defensive and counterattacking than not. But if Wilcox has a dream of playing like City, which we keep seeing comparisons and how he likes that system, Glassner isn't that.

There is talk now that Fletcher may only be interim for 1-2 games and United could appoint another interim manager for the rest of the season.

That's kind of what I figured. We have a lot of unemployed former players running around who have been managers at the moment. Completely uninformed, just feels like we appoint a Red until summer.

Sounds like Michael Carrick is odds on.

Fair. I thought it was a remark on his tactical inflexibility or something. But yeah, that's a fair comment about counter attack/defensive mentality at smaller clubs.

Anyone available is going to have a massive hole in their resume. The managers without holes aren't going to come to United. Gotta start somewhere and I can't think of anyone who ticks more boxes than Glasner and who would actually consider it.

You guys know what is funny (not funny ha ha, funny strange)? We effectively lost two more players for Burnley because Fletcher will probably not want to play his kids because of the appearance of nepotism…

That's hilarious. Because we don't have players to lose. We literally made 1 sub Sunday because the bench was Zirkzee, Malacia (ha) and 6 youth players.

Well, if anyone wants good news, Morocco and Cameroon meet in the AFCON quarterfinals, meaning we should get either Mbeumo or Mazraoui back (depending on who wins). Hopefully Mbeumo; we can use either, but that attack lineup we had for Leeds was rough.

Also, Ivory Coast will likely face Egypt in the quarterfinals if Ivory Coast wins against Burkina Faso tomorrow. So looking forward, for once, we will probably be huge Mo Salah fans… for that game anyway.

What a complete cluster. Unbelievable that United are starting over at manager, unbelievable that the club couldn't figure out a way to make it work with Amorim.

Back to square 1.

Aston94 said:

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What a complete cluster. Unbelievable that United are starting over at manager, unbelievable that the club couldn't figure out a way to make it work with Amorim.

Back to square 1.

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Are any of these things really THAT unbelievable though

I'll try to summarize today's Athletic article for those w/o a subscription...

According to the Athletic, whose sources are almost certainly United employees so take with a grain of salt, Wilcox and Amorim had a meeting on Friday at the end of which, after a "massive fallout", Amorim said he wanted to leave the club and that he'd be contacting his agent. If that's true, they should have fired him right then and there. Doesn't sound like he even went to speak to the players. He just went straight to his office, packed up his things, and left. Poor from him, but I guess it's fitting of a guy who's quite emotional and honest to a fault.

As has been reported, it came down to player acquisitions (or lack thereof) and the hierarchy wishing to see a transition to a 4 man backline.

In regards to transfers, it was a culmination of getting Lammens, Mbeumo, and Sesko instead of Martinez, Semenyo, and Watkins, not getting Semenyo in this window (Amorim apparently really likes Semenyo), and not getting "more players" that he needs.

In regards to tactics, Ratcliffe started pushing for a 4 man backline. Wilcox preferred it but largely left the decision to Amorim until more recently pushing for it. Amorim got fed up with it.

Personally, I think Amorim has no leg to stand on in regards to transfers. I get frustration at being told Semenyo is too expensive and then seeing Mbeumo come in for virtually the same fee. But Ratcliffe and co made pretty clear from day one that they were going to have a large say in transfers. And besides, Lammens has proven to be an excellent piece of business and Mbeumo is almost certainly our 2nd most important attacking player.

But United effed this in regards to the tactical disagreement. Maybe they thought they could Jedi mind trick Amorim into slowly transitioning to a 4 man backline but if that was their plan, it's a pretty horrible one. Can't blame Amorim for his 3 man backline. He said since before Day 1 that was his tactic. And if Ratcliffe's tactical opinions are having even miniscule influence at the club, then we are well and truly screwed.

Remember when we paid millions to hire Ashworth from Newcastle to lead football strategy and operations only to fire him when he said Amorim would not fit Man United?

Yea that was cool.

Fortunately we were able to get the tea ladies and free cafe lunches off the books.

Dre_00 said:

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I'll try to summarize today's Athletic article for those w/o a subscription...

According to the Athletic, whose sources are almost certainly United employees so take with a grain of salt, Wilcox and Amorim had a meeting on Friday at the end of which, after a "massive fallout", Amorim said he wanted to leave the club and that he'd be contacting his agent. If that's true, they should have fired him right then and there. Doesn't sound like he even went to speak to the players. He just went straight to his office, packed up his things, and left. Poor from him, but I guess it's fitting of a guy who's quite emotional and honest to a fault.

As has been reported, it came down to player acquisitions (or lack thereof) and the hierarchy wishing to see a transition to a 4 man backline.

In regards to transfers, it was a culmination of getting Lammens, Mbeumo, and Sesko instead of Martinez, Semenyo, and Watkins, not getting Semenyo in this window (Amorim apparently really likes Semenyo), and not getting "more players" that he needs.

In regards to tactics, Ratcliffe started pushing for a 4 man backline. Wilcox preferred it but largely left the decision to Amorim until more recently pushing for it. Amorim got fed up with it.

Personally, I think Amorim has no leg to stand on in regards to transfers. I get frustration at being told Semenyo is too expensive and then seeing Mbeumo come in for virtually the same fee. But Ratcliffe and co made pretty clear from day one that they were going to have a large say in transfers. And besides, Lammens has proven to be an excellent piece of business and Mbeumo is almost certainly our 2nd most important attacking player.

But United effed this in regards to the tactical disagreement. Maybe they thought they could Jedi mind trick Amorim into slowly transitioning to a 4 man backline but if that was their plan, it's a pretty horrible one. Can't blame Amorim for his 3 man backline. He said since before Day 1 that was his tactic. And if Ratcliffe's tactical opinions are having even miniscule influence at the club, then we are well and truly screwed.

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Like I said, complete cluster.

Ole coming back is looking more and more likely.

Furlock Bones said:

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Ole coming back is looking more and more likely.

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Prerequisites for job.
1. Will do what he's told and run a 4-3-3
2. Will smile a lot.
3. Won't throw anyone in a suit under the bus or complain about transfers.
4. Former player.

Mathguy64 said:

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Furlock Bones said:

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Ole coming back is looking more and more likely.

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Prerequisites for job.
1. Will do what he's told and run a 4-3-3
2. Will smile a lot.
3. Won't throw anyone in a suit under the bus or complain about transfers.
4. Former player.

---

check
check
check
and
check

I'm still mad at Ashworth for wanting Southgate.

Although, in fairness, although I don't think Southgate would have been good…

Kind of hard to argue it would've been worse.

I've tried to not rant too bad, but the Ruben Amorim era has been pretty awful. Like ten Hag second and third year bad without the joy of the first year… and a loss to freaking Spurs in Europa vs. the FA cup win against City.

To be fair, you could say the same "check" for Ruud. Or Carrick.

My guess is one of those three comes back pretty quickly. Maybe after Burnley. Surely they won't keep Fletcher. Good lord. His experience is coaching U18s for a year.

Whoever it is, they will be called "interim" and if it ends with a European spot for 2026-7 they get the interim tag pulled off.

I think the attraction of Ole is that, even if he finished in CL territory, the fan base would still more or less accept moving on to a different permanent manager since we already did this with Ole once.

(Full disclosure: I really fell in love with the Ole coming back to make good story pretty hard. It was like watching a sports movie… except rather than overcoming at the end, it went the other direction unfortunately. Sentimental me is still a little sad.)

Showstopper said:

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I'm still mad at Ashworth for wanting Southgate.

Although, in fairness, although I don't think Southgate would have been good…

Kind of hard to argue it would've been worse.

I've tried to not rant too bad, but the Ruben Amorim era has been pretty awful. Like ten Hag second and third year bad without the joy of the first year… and a loss to freaking Spurs in Europa vs. the FA cup win against City.

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Yea, I don't think fans would have been happy watching a Southgate team scrap for 1-nil wins. Doubtless his record would have been better than Amorim's.

Regardless Amorim was intractable and inflexible which is what Ashworth warned them about.