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Roddy/OJ???

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in the words of GS, join us in reality.

Forgot Dahntay - Roddy's minutes squeezed out again

ninja edit. well played.

also, you have to always keep in mind how much carlisle hates roddy

It's still weird to look at it position by position and see no JET or Kidd. At least Cuban will be able to sell some tickets at the beginning of the year.

This was very unexpected. I really thought Mayo was going to make more money than that.

Great pickup, especially when you consider the contract.

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I really thought Mayo was going to make more money than that.

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Me too. Not a lot of 18ppg scorers around for 4.5mm contracts on the market. Ever.

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And Nash got better with better coaching. Had Cuban been able to surround Dirk and Nash with a coach that were able to more properly utilize their strengths sooner, how much better could they have been?

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What? Dantoni is/was a better coach than Nellie? They were basically the same coach: offensive oriented, up-tempo styles (they ran different systems) who neglected the defensive end of the floor.

Your argument is seriously that Nash lacked coaching in Dallas?

As aforementioned in the thread, Nash got better because instead of dishing to Finley and Dirk for jumpers he started dishing to Amare and Marion for dunks either off the pick and roll (Amare) or in transition (Marion).

Nash needed a better coach in Dallas? Great analysis.

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What? Dantoni is/was a better coach than Nellie? They were basically the same coach: offensive oriented, up-tempo styles (they ran different systems) who neglected the defensive end of the floor.

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Who got more production out of Nash?

Nelson is a vastly overrated coach. The man is 75-91 in the playoffs. As a coach, he has failed to coach in the playoffs 13 years - he has missed coaching in the playoffs more years than Carlisle has even coached a team.

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As aforementioned in the thread, Nash got better because instead of dishing to Finley and Dirk for jumpers he started dishing to Amare and Marion for dunks either off the pick and roll (Amare) or in transition (Marion).

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Right. Poor coaching on Nelson's part to rely on the jump shot. Kind of my point. Has a team that relied on jump shots ever won the championship? Carlisle came in and didn't rely on jumpers, despite having one of the greatest jump shooters ever and took the Mavs all the way.

Now imagine if the Mavs had two super stars all these years with better coaching that played to their strengths and to the current rule structure of the game. That has been a weak spot for the Mavs for 6 years - having a second player they could rely on every game to help Dirk out. JET is hot and cold. Great for a 4th option because he can come in off the bench and drop 35. But he can also go 2-11 and hurt you on both ends of the court.

Additionally, the team to beat in the WC from 07 until now was the Lakers. What was the Laker's weak spot all those years? Point guard. Could you imagine what Nash could have done to a team with scrubs like Fisher, Blake and Brown guarding him?

Nelson really never set the Mavs up to win because he never coached the Mavs to their strengths, he coached them to his style. And that's why the Mavs are so much better after Nelson left under Avery and Carlisle than they were under Nelson. Not because they had some under-motivated scrub getting 6 and 7 for them in the paint.

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Me too. Not a lot of 18ppg scorers around for 4.5mm contracts on the market. Ever.

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He is a career 15PPG player and averaged 12PPG the last two seasons.

And he has averaged 18.5ppg on .438/.384/.879 shooting in a season. That's a pretty good scorer the Mavs picked up very cheap.

You can't just look at his stats from his best year and ignore the other 3 seasons he has played in the league.

Does Mayo play defense?

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You can't just look at his stats from his best year and ignore the other 3 seasons he has played in the league.

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Sure you can. He is capable of scoring 18ppg with respectable shooting percentages. He has talent. And that is hard to come by at $4.5mm per year.

I've been cursing Cuban's name after missing out on Williams and then Nash but I must give him props for all these recent signings since they're all 1-year deals. The team is young but hopefully talented and should be fun to watch. I'm hoping this back court can lead to good things if the Mavs miss out on the big-name free agents next summer.

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Let the CP3/D12/Harden/Bynum speculation begin while the Mavs make another playoff run

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And so it begins...if you insert Howard, CP3, and Williams into that statement you've hit a time warp to last offseason...I can't wait to see next offseason's meltdown...

Oh, and please stop touting these off season moves like that's what was intended. This off season wasn't a success for the mavs...it was a failure.

I put the over under at 2 months that somehow Collison will be better than CP3 on these boards and I'm going under

jeez this prepy *** is obsessed with the mavs.

Wow, prepy. This is obsessed, even by your standards.

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jeez this prepy *** is obsessed with the mavs.

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Wow, prepy. This is obsessed, even by your standards.

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I'm sorry, I'm just allergic to ridiculousness.I just don't see a washed up Elton Brand, Chris Kamen, and Darren Collison as an upgrade. You guys are killing me...at least when it was doom and gloom you all came back down to earth and were realistic. Now you're touting this offseason as a success AND you still think you're in the running for CP3, Howard, Harden, etc...

You have about as much chance as the Bobcats of getting any big name to Dallas...don't believe me? ON the count of 3 name the last BIG name free agent to sign with Dallas...1, 2, 3...don't worry I'll wait...

So in your mind, what could the Mavs have done this offseason to make it a success?

This offseason has not been a failure even by the most pesimistic views. You made a run at the one available superstar and whiffed. Since then you have locked up the best center available, pulled a heist for a legit starting point guard and a servicable 2 guard for your scraps. You got probably the best 2 guard free agent and were able to land a decent back up power forward who has been an all star.

They upgraded every single position on the floor except for the 3 where Marion still resides. Hard to not call it a success. There was one move that would have made them a title team and the Mav's came in second. Oh, well still a very productive off season.

You're literally too dumb to argue with

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So in your mind, what could the Mavs have done this offseason to make it a success?

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The Mavs could have signed Deron Williams AND Dwight Howard, and preppy would ***** because they didn't "save any financial flexibility going forward" or some other line of bs

Even though the Mavs whiffed on the big fish, they cleaned up on the middle-tier guys. They had a very good offseason, and I think they got the steal of the draft.

I don't like the Mavs, but they had a great offseason.

Plus, with the nutpuncher gone and Cuban toning down his antics, Dirk is the only player left that I dislike.

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So in your mind, what could the Mavs have done this offseason to make it a success?

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This offseason has not been a failure even by the most pesimistic views. You made a run at the one available superstar and whiffed. Since then you have locked up the best center available, pulled a heist for a legit starting point guard and a servicable 2 guard for your scraps. You got probably the best 2 guard free agent and were able to land a decent back up power forward who has been an all star.

They upgraded every single position on the floor except for the 3 where Marion still resides. Hard to not call it a success. There was one move that would have made them a title team and the Mav's came in second. Oh, well still a very productive off season.

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Doing what you set out to do, and that's land a big fish. I'm sorry, but if you set a goal, and you don't achieve that goal, is that not a failure? If the plan was to build for the 2013 offseason than this would've been a pretty decent offseason, but it wasn't...Cuban, Nelson, and any Mav fan with a voice screamed how they were going to land a "big fish" this offseason since last year at this time.

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You're literally too dumb to argue with

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Typical response when you have nothing to offer for a discussion. I'm sorry, but it's comical to watch you get excited about Darren Collison, an 11 and 6 Elton Brand, and Chris Kamen. I apologize that I don't agree with you, but I don't think that makes me dumb. The Pacers don't have a point guard, but yet traded Collison...Brand was supposed to be the cornerstone for Philly, and they let him go, Kamen is a 7 foot center, which is hard to get in the nBA and he was available...do those thing not raise flags with you people? Or do those things only apply when they sign with other teams? Had San Antonio made these moves, the responses would be complete 180's.

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The Mavs could have signed Deron Williams AND Dwight Howard, and preppy would ***** because they didn't "save any financial flexibility going forward" or some other line of bs

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Oh, so your magic? you know what I would've said to something that had no chance of happening? You sir should play the lottery.

DWill and DHow got away...

So compare:

Kidd vs. Collison
Terry vs. Mayo
Haywood vs. Kaman
Mahinmi vs. Brand

Mavs got better and younger. Not by a lot, but enough to stay in the mix (5 to 8 seed) in the West.

Riddle me this riddler.


When was the last time the Mavs had enough cap space to sign a big name free agent? That's a dumb argument if you look further than the face of it.

And to say that an offseason is a failure, because they didn't sign Deron Williams, is drastic. Did they achieve goal #1? No, but they certainly did more than what people expected of them. They replaced an aging Jason Kidd, who was not capable of being the starting PG on a playoff contender any longer. Is Darren Collison an all-star? No, but he certainly has played near that level previously in his career (albeit briefly) and the Mavs have a history of getting the most out of their players. Its a chance that they're taking... A $2m chance they're taking on a one year deal.

They replaced Brendan Haywood, who has shown that he's no longer a serviceable starting center, with a guy that at least has one aspect of his game that puts him above most other centers in the league (Kaman/Offense).

OJ Mayo as well has shown that he can play near an all-star level in previous seasons. This isn't what the Mavs are expecting from him, but given the right coaching he could be a serviceable replacement to Jason Terry, and gives a better all around game than Terry does at this point in his career.

To say that this off season is a failure, because they missed out on the one big name free agent out there, who was, according to Williams, going to sign with the Mavs had it not been for the Joe Johnson trade is an extremely narrow view of what they've done this offseason. They went from one of the oldest teams in the NBA, with very few true prospects for the future, to a team with 7 guys 25 years old or younger. Out of those 7 guys, 4 of them have shown that they can be rotational players on a playoff team, if not better.

This offseason there was one set of ears listening to offers as a big name free agent, next offseason it will be three. All three of those guys have rumored interest in playing in Dallas, so to say they have no chance at any of these guys is ridiculous. Will they get them? Who knows, but to outright say they won't is just false.

[This message has been edited by hph6203 (edited 7/17/2012 11:19a).]

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This offseason has not been a failure even by the most pesimistic views. You made a run at the one available superstar and whiffed. Since then you have locked up the best center available, pulled a heist for a legit starting point guard and a servicable 2 guard for your scraps. You got probably the best 2 guard free agent and were able to land a decent back up power forward who has been an all star.

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And on top of that all those players acquired are for expiring deals, except Mayo who was so cheap it will be easy to trade him. The Mavs are players in free agency just by virtue of their roster alone plus they will instantly compete for 4th in the West while waiting.

Meanwhile at the end of the day the Nets basically just added Joe Johnson to a 22 win team with today's news of re-signing Humphries. Amazingly they couldn't convince him to take 16mm less to sign with Cleveland so they could get Howard. And they killed their future flexibility - it will be very difficult to make roster changes moving forward with the new trade/signing penalties for tax payers. Doesn't matter how much the Russian is willing to pay.

Prepyag, will you stand by your prediction that the Nets will be one of the best teams in the East? How impressive is that Kris Humphries 24mm signing?

I wonder what team you cheer for...ok, I'll let it all play out just like I did last year. The fact that you can really get excited about going from the PLAN of Howard and Williams, to Kamen, Mayo, and Collison is laughable.

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And on top of that all those players acquired are for expiring deals, except Mayo who was so cheap it will be easy to trade him. The Mavs are players in free agency just by virtue of their roster alone plus they will instantly compete for 4th in the West while waiting.

Meanwhile at the end of the day the Nets basically just added Joe Johnson to a 22 win team with today's news of re-signing Humphries. Amazingly they couldn't convince him to take 16mm less to sign with Cleveland so they could get Howard. And they killed their future flexibility - it will be very difficult to make roster changes moving forward with the new trade/signing penalties for tax payers. Doesn't matter how much the Russian is willing to pay.

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If a team is playing well then felxibility is irrelevant...look at Miami. They're not felxible. Mavs fans are using "oh, but we're still flexible and be players later" as an excuse.

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Prepyag, will you stand by your prediction that the Nets will be one of the best teams in the East? How impressive is that Kris Humphries 24mm signing?

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They'll be no worse than 4th-5th in the East, and going from a 22 win team to 4-5 seed is pretty legit. I guarantee they have a better record than the mavs. Their line up is already better.

(Que the "no way, Mayo is way better than Johnson and Collison has the potential to be better than williams, and Kamen and Brand are better than Lopex and humprhies hands down" BS...you mavs fans never let me down)

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When was the last time the Mavs had enough cap space to sign a big name free agent? That's a dumb argument if you look further than the face of it.

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Bingo.

Also...

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4690995/mavs-look-younger-more-athletic-and-versatile

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4690992/mavs-improved-despite-missing-on-deron-williams

These people seem to disagree with your idiotic assessment, prepy.

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When was the last time the Mavs had enough cap space to sign a big name free agent? That's a dumb argument if you look further than the face of it.

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The Mavs have often gone after free agents without cap space. S&T for Dampier's massive contract.

Same intention but not the same process for S&T. You seriously are comparing using the Dampier trade chip to the process of recruiti a max free agent with cap space? This whole thread is just Guitarsoup throwing **** against the wall interspersed with prepyags facepalm drivel

IF02 with the same old useless BS.


Cap space is king, but when you are dealing with a max guy, 99% of the time they are going to leave their team in a S&T so they can get the best deal possible. So when going after a max FA, cap space isn't necessarily an absolute necessity.

And I wasn't saying when the Mavs traded away Dampier. When they traded for him. They were over the cap, but were still able to get one of the highest paid FAs of the year by giving up a few draft picks and ending/cheap contracts.

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 7/17/2012 12:01p).]