Where do the Mavs go now?

22,869 Views | 831 Replies | Last: 13 yr ago by fightinags2013
Guitarsoup
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quote:
We've reached that point in the thread where the Spurs Other homers must come in to the Mavs thread to remind us how great the Spurs are.


I forgot the rules that only the Mavs were to be discussed in intelligent conversation so as not to hurt the feelings of sensitive Mavs fans.
Phat32
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Intelligent conversation is giving way too much credit to the Basketball Other board.
Guitarsoup
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quote:
Another point of clarification: we're talking about the current management and organization. Yes, I agree, if you won a championship in 1976 (see: Brooklyn Nets), you do not qualify.

You have to have won a championship with the current organizational structure (generally) to be considered a current championship organization.


That's fine. The fans clearly care a hell of a lot more about this than the players. That's why the Spurs have been unable to land a single marquee free agent. Hell, they haven't even been able to get a FULL MLE guy.

I can't even name a good player they have signed in his prime that wasn't an old guy chasing rings. The "This GM and coach have build a championship" is nice to pitch, but I haven't seen the players buy it.
Phat32
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Well let's be honest, what do the players really care about these days? I think it's now in this order:

Money (lots of it, and longer term deals due to injury concerns)
Location (fun, lots to do, easy to travel, prestige)
Exposure (how big is the market, can they capture more than just that area)
Team (do I like the guys I'm going to play with, can they help me?)
Coach (will he let me party as much as I want?)
Ring (do I have a chance of a ring?)
Organization (are they "good"?)

I think that the older the player gets, the more they push the bottom items to the top.

Judge
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quote:
I forgot the rules that only the Mavs were to be discussed in intelligent conversation so as not to hurt the feelings of sensitive Mavs fans.
You were the first person to get all butthurt in this thread, as evidenced by the de-evolution into ad hominem when asked simple questions that were avoided like the plague.

quote:
Money (lots of it, and longer term deals due to injury concerns)
Location (fun, lots to do, easy to travel, prestige)
Exposure (how big is the market, can they capture more than just that area)
Team (do I like the guys I'm going to play with, can they help me?)
Coach (will he let me party as much as I want?)
Ring (do I have a chance of a ring?)
Organization (are they "good"?)

I'd say that's a pretty good assessment. I'd like to think that championship pedigree and a quality organization mean a lot but more than anything it probably came down to the money and convenience of staying put. Maybe Deron will give us some insight (like Kidd suggested he should) on how he made the decision.
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Judge
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Even if Deron does come out, it's all gonna be politically correct BS. Nobody wants to shat on their hometown (except maybe Lebron).
True. It would only matter to me if it was candid insight into what was essentially the deciding factor. He could probably do that without insulting either organization - he has no reason to do that though. Most people would take it as salt in the wounds. I just think it would be interesting.
InternetFan02
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quote:
The nets have a better set of core player (Wallace, Williams, and Johnson) than the Mavs do (Dirk, Marion, and Carter I guess is the 3rd) and they have the ability to possibly get Dwight Howard
They don't and they don't. The Nets core was Joe Johnson, now it's Johnson+Williams. All other players are expendable and are either bad contracts or quality trade assets. You move them around year to year to find the best fit. The Mavs core is Dirk and only Dirk - it's been that way since 2004
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Are the Nets a serious contender for a title? I'd have to watch them play, but on paper they have have 20 ppg player in Johnson (hate his contract all you want, but the guy can play), a lock down forward who averaged 16 and 7 last year, and one of the best PG's in the game today. This is a guard driven league, making them just as good or better than anyone in the East sans Miami.
prepyag afraid to go on a limb and predict that the Nets are a legit contender. To me they look a lot like the Joe Johnson Hawks - 2nd round ceiling.

quote:
If you didn't understand, than I should have been more clear. This is what I meant.
There's no getting through to prepyag. The facepalm could not be any stronger when reading his posts.





-There's 6 current championship organizations - Boston, Dallas, San Antonio, Miami, LA, Detroit. Detroit has lost all credibility over the past 9 years of moves and the entire core is gone. All the others still have the front office and the core players intact. Simple logic.
quote:
I can't even name a good player they have signed in his prime that wasn't an old guy chasing rings. The "This GM and coach have build a championship" is nice to pitch, but I haven't seen the players buy it.

-San Antonio has had it's core in place since 2005 - 1 franchise superstar, 2 borderline all-NBAers surrounded by low paid guys that would run through a wall to win a title. They haven't tried to land a marquee free agent since 2003. They recognize that depending on signing marquee free agents is not a smart gamble, and they don't need to clear space to do it anyway.

They have signed plenty of MLE quality free agents during the few years that they were willing to shell out for them (Barry, McDyess, etc) and I'm sure you can go back 5-10 pages on this forum and see Guitarsoup praising the Spurs for doing such a great job signing these players as he flips his argument around to fit the agenda. They also do an incredible job developing young talent and have an owner who usually demands they stay under the lux tax for *financial* reasons instead of purely competitive reasons.

[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 7/6/2012 11:59a).]
AgBeliever
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quote:
Everyone who follows the NBA knows that the home team can offer more.


True. And we can not underestimate the fact that the Nets are leaving New Jersey for NYC and a new arena. That played into this as well. Maybe more so than the Joe Johnson trade.

Which makes you wonder why Cuban and Donnie were so confident in Deron Williams coming to Dallas in the first place? The Nets are going through soming similar to when Cuban took over the Mavs and we went to the AA in '02. Actually more so. Now the Nets get to compete with the Knicks as the home town favorites in NYC. And as our arse clown VP would say, "That's a big f'n deal."

If I'm Dirk, I'm pizzed at how this was poorly thought out.
AgBeliever
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quote:
I forgot the rules that only the Mavs were to be discussed in intelligent conversation so as not to hurt the feelings of sensitive Mavs fans.



You're not the instigator that preppy is. Then again, who is? But we both know you like to give back-handed compliments on the Mavs.

Hey, it's a sports board so some trash talking is in order. Let's just not pretend to be 100% objective.

Quite frankly the only team I hate more than the Heat is the Spurs. Is there a bigger crybaby than Timmy Duncan? Having said that, he is a great player. I just wish the Mavs had a front office like the Spurs. Oh well.
Enzo The Baker
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quote:
Brand is being amnestied. He could probably be picked up on the cheap.


Marc Stein: Mavericks, sources say, are one under-the-cap team to already express interest in claiming Elton Brand through amnesty waiver process.

Damn I'm good. Not really a stretch though.
Judge
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Louis Williams too. We can take all the 76ers rejects.
AgBeliever
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Hmmm.

Looks like we are definitely after Brand and Sessions. Sign them and re-sign West and it's a decent starting line-up. Maybe a 6th seed. Still better than the Rockets. lol

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4690669/source-mavs-interested-in-elton-brand
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AgBeliever
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Louis Williams might be better than Ramon Sessions.

I probably shouldn't make fun of the Rockets. This is looking bad.
Goldie Wilson
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quote:
Damn I'm good.
Unfortunately, Brand is not.
Enzo The Baker
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If I were the Mavs, I would definitely make the run at Williams before Sessions. Not even close.
Judge
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quote:
Louis Williams might be better than Ramon Sessions.
I think LW is much better. At times he was the only person on the 76ers who could generate any offense.

Elton Brand does very well on advanced defensive statistics. I would welcome him, especially if he comes cheap-ish.

Things are getting pretty dire when I'm bargaining over the positives of adding Sessions and Elton Brand. At least Louis Williams is a legitimate player.
AgBeliever
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quote:
Elton Brand does very well on advanced defensive statistics.


Can he play the 5 in a zone? If so, it could work. Supposedly Bernard James is NBA ready now. Maybe he could give us some minutes there as well.

Trying to be positive but it's kind of hard.
Judge
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quote:
Can he play the 5 in a zone?

Doubtful. He's undersized at 6'8 and not doing anything to help bring down the average age of the team.
3 William 56
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quote:
You're not the instigator that preppy is. Then again, who is?


it's amazing to me that if I don't agree the Mavs are the end all be all I'm a troll, instigator, or a plethora of other names.

It makes this drama with the Mavs so much more satisfying...because you mav fans deserve all the crap you're getting...

I can't wait to see the boards explode with the "we're getting Brand and he's the next Karl Malone" garbage...oh wait, it's already begun.
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AgBeliever
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Doubtful. He's undersized at 6'8 and not doing anything to help bring down the average age of the team.



So what would be the purpose of bringing him in? To back up Dirk? And leave the 5 to Wright and James?

I know Dirk is too classy of a guy to do it, but maybe it's time he starts asking to be traded. Cuban and Donnie seem to have fubared this up pretty good.
Phat32
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Elton Brand /facepalm
3 William 56
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quote:
Elton Brand /facepalm


poor guy
Iowaggie
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SIAP in one of the many Mavs threads, but to answer the OPs question.

Judge
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AgBeliever
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I don't know if this guy has game but I bet he'd be fun to watch.

Phat32
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Mavs tryout today:

MW03
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quote:
Dirk is an old man now. He's not a good core member of a team. It always takes a year or 2 for a new team to gel and Dirk is going to be 36 at that point. Dirk was great, but he's no longer a player that young guys want to go play with thinking he can lead a team to a Championship.

That would be like the Spurs trying to sell a younger superstar on coming to play with Duncan. He's too old now.

Father Time is a beotch.


Real talk.
PatAg
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I think being a team that has won 50+games a season the past 11 out of 12 seasons or so, including winning a title in that time frame, qualifies you as a championship organization. Especially since all the front office+owner that made those moves is all still there. We have also changed our identity multiple times, successfully mind you, without a dropoff. This will definitley be a gigantic challenge, but Im willing to trust them more than most other teams.
Its also asinine to imply that we aren't one of the top organizations in the league.
Guitarsoup
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quote:
They [Spurs] haven't tried to land a marquee free agent since 2003.

That's absolute bull****. They have gone after a number of other players, but Kidd was their best bet. They failed and it was probably better for them that they did considering how Tony Parker turned out.

quote:
They have signed plenty of MLE quality free agents during the few years that they were willing to shell out for them (Barry, McDyess, etc)

Barry was a steal for the Spurs - he took less money to come to SA than the Sonics offered him.

MyDyess - classic old player that signed with the Spurs at 35 years old to chase a ring for the last two years of his career. Spurs have gotten a lot of players like that. Doc Rivers, Terry Porter, Mario Elie, etc. Heck, I am pretty sure the Spurs wanted Rasheed that summer because they love the stretch 4. There were a lot of higher priority targets the Summer of McDyess that the Spurs didn't get. Same year as Odom, Gortet, Rasheed, Big Baby, Varajao, Birdman, David Lee, Paul Millsapp, Zaza, etc.

quote:
d I'm sure you can go back 5-10 pages on this forum and see Guitarsoup praising the Spurs for doing such a great job signing these players as he flips his argument around to fit the agenda.

The Spurs have done a decent jobs at finding value in players unwanted by other teams. Danny Green. Bruce Bowen. But they have stuck out again and again on the free agent market. I didn't want Kidd over Parker, but was pretty upset when they went after Elton Brand and struck out (he signed with Miami which was matched by LAC.) I didn't like that Bruce Bowen was our main signing way back when. But like everyone else in the world, I had no clue who he was.


But I guess if you don't have anything intelligent to say, you can always make up things I might have said or not said a decade ago. That is in no way pathetic.

quote:
They also do an incredible job developing young talent and have an owner who usually demands they stay under the lux tax for *financial* reasons instead of purely competitive reasons.

Which is why they have to develop the talent. 1. No one wants to come to SA unless they are old and want a shot at a ring or 2. because no one else really wants them.

But sure, please go ahead and add more unsubstantiated attacks because you have nothing substantive to add. Par for the course for you.

quote:
Can he play the 5 in a zone?

He could before he blew out his legs. He was a pretty good shot blocker once upon a time.

quote:
I think being a team that has won 50+games a season the past 11 out of 12 seasons or so, including winning a title in that time frame, qualifies you as a championship organization.

Agree. Mavs have a pedigree to sell. But a young superstar doesn't really care. An old guy that wants to win now after making their money cares. That's how it has worked for years. I am really surprised that Cuban went all in for two years on this one hope without having some intimate knowledge that it was going to happen.

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 7/6/2012 6:37p).]
PatAg
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That's what I think we all assumed. Cuban would only do this if he knew both players were coming, which I guess goes to show how fickle professional athletes can be. They spend their whole lives being yesman'ed to death, so they do what they want.
R0GUE
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quote:
Mavs tryout today:




We already had J.J. Barea...
 
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